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Army of PCs Against the Giants Discussion Thread


Presumably, this is the right place for such things. Right, so a discussion thread for those so inclined about the apparently fairly popular campaign log...Against the Giants. There will be no regular updates, and I may or may not answer questions, cause at least one of my players also lurks on these hallowed boards.

I'm curious to see what you all think about some house rules we use and of the builds for some of the characters. So today, one house rule, and one character build:

The Rule- fighters may exchange their armor and shield proficiencies for other fighter bonus feats. We call these fighter exchange feats. This option is exercised at 1st level, and the exchange feats are gained at odd levels. Thus, at 1st level a fighter can get two bonus feats. You cannot exchange a feat that is a prerequisite for a feat you're keeping (you can't lose light and medium armor proficiency but keep heavy armor proficiency, for example).

So yes, a clever player will take, say, a level of ranger, then a level of fighter, and dump all the fighter's armor and shield feats for 5 extra bonus feats, to be gained over the course of 9 levels of fighter. Since fighters never get anything nice, I see no issue.

The Build: Navussar is designed to be a ranger, but more so. Currently, he's a ranger 10/beastmaster 1. (updated on 7 May from ranger 8/beastmaster 1)
Navussar- male half elf ranger 10/beastmaster 1/cleric 1/lion of talisid 8

1- power attack, track*
2- rapid shot*
3- skill focus- handle animal, endurance*
6- favored power attack, manyshot*
9- natural bond
12- favored of the companions, improved precise shot*, animal devotion* (instead of animal domain)
15- extend spell
17- exalted companion*
18- TBD

This gives BAB +17, caster level and spells/day as cleric 9 and ranger 10; animal companion as a 20th-level druid, wild shape large 4/day, and pounce (although pounce shows up really late). I think I would just apply the celestial template to the existing animal companion.

Welp, grad school is over for the semester, so...

House rule: sudden strike doesn't exist. Any class that gets sudden strike instead gets sneak attack. Why? Cause I don't want to bother with all the permutations of when what bonus applies. I have better ways to spend my time.

Kochevnik's build:
male tiefling (LA bought back) rogue 1/paladin 8/pious templar 1 (as of 7 May 19)
Kochevnik's Charisma will be 20 at 20th level, and he has a wand of eagle's splendor.

Use the feat rogue, holy warrior paladin ACF, charging smite ACF. Progression is:

rogue 4/paladin 8/pious templar 8
rogue 1- protection devotion (1), power attack*; feat rogue ACF
paladin 1-8- weapon focus- bastard sword (3); divine might* (5), true believer (6), sacred healing* (9), awesome smite (9); holy warrior ACF
templar 1
rogue 2- improved buckler defense* (11)
templar 2- destruction devotion (12)
rogue 3
templar 3-4- weapon specialization* (14), leap attack* (15), divine vigor (15)
rogue 4- improved bull rush* (16)
templar 5-8- thick skinned (18), shock trooper* (20)

also gets smite evil 4/day (+5 hit, +16 damage) and smite anything 2/day (+4 hit, +8 damage); turn undead 8/day, evasion, mettle, uncanny dodge, DR 4/-, spellcasting equivalent to a Paladin 16

*= bonus feat
Sacred healing is the one from Complete Divine

Again, not super optimized, but not bad for the campaign I run. I might not take improved buckler defense and bump all the fighter bonus feats down one.

Below is Kochevnik's new build plan, what with him now being her, and her losing her level of rogue in the reincarnation. I did use the reincarnation as an opportunity for some rebuilding that doubles as character development.

Paladin 8/templar 1
Paladin 8/pious templar 1/fighter 1/cleric 1/templar +9

Holy Warrior ACF from Complete Champion
Charging Smite ACF from PHB II
Spellbreaker ACF from Complete Mage

Fighter- use the house rule of trading armor and shield proficiencies for bonus feats

Cleric- trade access to Law and Destruction domains for their respective devotion feats

Pious Templar is referred to just as "templar" in the home campaign

1. Paladin 1- able learner*, power attack; smite evil 1/day
2. Paladin 2-
3. Paladin 3- weapon focus- longspear
4. Paladin 4- true believer*
5. Paladin 5- charging smite ACF, smite evil 2/day
6. Paladin 6- awesome smite; remove curse 1/week
7. Paladin 7-
8. Paladin 8- sacred healing* (Complete Divine)
9. Templar 1- smite evil 3/day, mettle, paladin spells
10. Fighter 1- pike and shield style (Dragon 338), parrying shield*
11. Cleric 1- law devotion*, destruction devotion*
12. Templar 2- battle blessing; smite anything 1/day
13. Templar 3- weapon specialization- longspear*
14. Templar 4- melee weapon mastery- piercing*
15. Templar 5- driving attack
16. Templar 6- smite anything 2/day
17. Templar 7- smite evil 4/day
18. Templar 8- leap attack* (?), divine shield (?)
19. Templar 9-
20. Templar 10- smite anything 3/day

What I'm looking forward to is using driving attack to punt a fire giant 60 feet or so. I'm sure everyone here can do far better, but I got a +62 damage bonus (and therefore bull rush modifier) with BAB +14, Str buffed to 20, Cha buffed to 22, power attack, smite, divine might, law devotion, the spear, and the various tax and bonus feats (so basically zero optimization as far as these boards are concerned). Seemed like a good way to get some versatility and battlefield control options in an otherwise charge-focused build.

Another iteration of Navus' build, cause tinkering with characters is how I get my fix between gaming sessions. I finally noticed that abolisher exists, which is flavor-wise more what I'm looking for that lion of Talisid. Plus no feat tax for it. It occured to me that most of the stuff he would get from lion of Talisid he can duplicate with spells.

half-elf ranger 10/beastmaster 1

12- ranger 11- improved precise shot*, knowledge devotion; kn- religion is class skill
13- abolisher 1- wild shape 1/day, favored enemy- aberrations +2, animal companion
14- abolisher 2
15- contemplative 1- celerity domain; companion spellbond
16- abolisher 3
17- abolisher 4- wild shape 2/day, FE- abberations +4
18- ranger 12- animal devotion, probably...maybe natural spell
19- ranger 13- camouflage
20- ranger 14

So we have BAB +18, animal companion 18th, ranger spells at CL 9th and S/D 18th plus domain spells, an extra favored enemy, and wild shape 2/day. I considered dipping cleric 1 instead of contemplative 1, but then he wouldn't get 4th level spells until 20th level (instead of 16th with this build), he couldn't apply the domain spells to ranger, but he would get two domain feats. So we will see.


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