Author Topic: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM  (Read 88057 times)

Offline Quillwraith

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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2012, 08:45:15 PM »
One or the other. Not two different elements, and certainly not opposed elements. Also, much like Air Gnomes, lose the racial bonus against Kobies and Gobies, and your anti-giant becomes a racial against big creatures of the opposed element.
Fire whisper gnome it is. I was half-joking about the fire/water mix, really.

Offline ariasderros

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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2012, 08:55:38 PM »
One or the other. Not two different elements, and certainly not opposed elements. Also, much like Air Gnomes, lose the racial bonus against Kobies and Gobies, and your anti-giant becomes a racial against big creatures of the opposed element.
Fire whisper gnome it is. I was half-joking about the fire/water mix, really.

Well it's not like there aren't combo-elementals. Ooze and steam at least.

In unrelated news, I'm updating the World Information thread. I have covered the nature of magic in this world, and religion (that one was quick). Next is the races outlooks upon each other, but I'm not going to promise when that's going to be up.  Then things like country and other location descriptions, hopefully with some maps backing them up before too long.

Is there anything you guys want to see added in for your reference?
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Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #42 on: October 20, 2012, 12:07:45 AM »
Warpsoul isn't quite the flavor I'd like.  Warcrafter, -maybe-.  Mystic Brew would need some tweaking though given the houserules about various alchemical items and how they'll interact with Augmented Alchemy since that's the basis.
Who-wha-huh? I don't see anything that would need tweaking. That disciplines definition of "brew" matches what all can be made with Brew Potion, and Augmented Alchemy is pretty clear in how it affects any given possible theoretical alchemic substance (double damage. no damage? then double duration. no duration? then double area. no area either, then what are you trying to augment?).

The feat was made with the base alchemical stuff in mind such as 1d6 alchemist's fire, not your 3d6 version.  I think I spoke too soon though since I'm remembering my minor SA optimization resulted in pretty reasonable numbers, so the bunch of d6's probably won't be a huge deal.  If you'd like I can put together a build based on maximizing the thrown alchemy stuff.

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One of my thoughts is to try to be less item dependent, especially since an artificer's oils would nickel and dime me a fair bit and the same seems true of that halfling thrower build as well as a warcrafter.  It's looking like Archivist or Warlock, maybe even a strange combo of the two working with the former's Dark Knowledge playing into the latter's existence.

I might finish that wilder/warlock PrC I was figuring out a while back too and have since named Eldritch Savant.

Speaking of warlocks though, are there any invocations from the DFA list that would be added to the warlock's?  Endure Exposure comes to mind.
As far as nickle and dime-ing you goes, taking / making the time for it is actually more likely to be the problem with that than the cost. Since you will be getting paid intermittently, and the frequency which you'll be able to buy relevant stuff with said funds will be much less frequent than normal for D&D.

As far as cross-invocations, I've always allowed DFA's to pick off of the warlock list, so I see no reason not to allow it vice versa. Savant looks cool, but yeah, it does need more flesh on dem bones. Psiblast definitely, though I'm not sure what level to put it at (4?). If you use frightful glare in that class's final draft, take out the HD limit, fear effects are gimped enough.

Feedback noted for the class.  I'll start up the discussion on it again to see if I can jump start it.


Offline ShadowViper

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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #43 on: October 20, 2012, 01:27:41 AM »
Still don't really have any ideas  :-\

So divine caster needed? What about skill-monkey? Ranged Specialist?
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Offline McPoyo

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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #44 on: October 20, 2012, 09:27:02 AM »
Any/all of the above :P

I should have a character stub, if not the full sheet, up today. Just hammering out a few more points, and still need to do gear.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #45 on: October 20, 2012, 02:35:25 PM »
Still don't really have any ideas  :-\

So divine caster needed? What about skill-monkey? Ranged Specialist?

Divine ranged skill-monkey.  Cloistered Cleric with Zen Archery would fit the bill.

Offline McPoyo

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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2012, 03:09:39 PM »
Also, for what it's worth, if everyone grabs tomb-tainted, it'll net us free healing for out-of-combat via my touch.

Offline ariasderros

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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #47 on: October 20, 2012, 03:34:05 PM »
Still don't really have any ideas  :-\

So divine caster needed? What about skill-monkey? Ranged Specialist?

Sounds more like you have too many ideas.

Also, for what it's worth, if everyone grabs tomb-tainted, it'll net us free healing for out-of-combat via my touch.

It's not free if it costs a feat.

The feat was made with the base alchemical stuff in mind such as 1d6 alchemist's fire, not your 3d6 version.  I think I spoke too soon though since I'm remembering my minor SA optimization resulted in pretty reasonable numbers, so the bunch of d6's probably won't be a huge deal.  If you'd like I can put together a build based on maximizing the thrown alchemy stuff.
Unless you start carrying around 9,001 flasks of the various substances, I'm not too worried about 6d6 being your damage when it is that much. Alchemy shouldn't nickle and dime away all your wealth, but then again, anything will do that if you go hog wild with it.
Besides, look at your damage of 6d6 as an average of 14. If the Wyrm Warrior, Graalmas, wields a greatsword, the average damage will be 16, and when he uses Green Sun Nimbus Flare and Basic Strength Technique, the average goes up to 23.5.
Granted, you have to hit touch AC, not normal AC, and yours is ranged, but he never runs out of sword, and his abilities will get better more quickly than a Warcrafters.
So, Mystic Brew damage, even with the improved flasks, is not going to make me balk.
MB becomes more powerful later on, when you can start going through potions more easily.
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Offline ShadowViper

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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2012, 04:40:28 PM »
Don't really have set ideas actually.

Thinking maybe a sniper(the homebrew class from these forums).

But I'm also the type of player that's cool with filling in party gaps so that often helps me decide on something.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #49 on: October 20, 2012, 05:35:53 PM »
Unless you start carrying around 9,001 flasks of the various substances, I'm not too worried about 6d6 being your damage when it is that much. Alchemy shouldn't nickle and dime away all your wealth, but then again, anything will do that if you go hog wild with it.
Besides, look at your damage of 6d6 as an average of 14. If the Wyrm Warrior, Graalmas, wields a greatsword, the average damage will be 16, and when he uses Green Sun Nimbus Flare and Basic Strength Technique, the average goes up to 23.5.
Granted, you have to hit touch AC, not normal AC, and yours is ranged, but he never runs out of sword, and his abilities will get better more quickly than a Warcrafters.
So, Mystic Brew damage, even with the improved flasks, is not going to make me balk.
MB becomes more powerful later on, when you can start going through potions more easily.

Actually 6d6 average is 21, but it's still no big deal -- I haven't done most of Graalmas's stuff yet, and he'll be topping that average regularly.
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Offline InnaBinder

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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #50 on: October 20, 2012, 05:42:36 PM »
Don't really have set ideas actually.

Thinking maybe a sniper(the homebrew class from these forums).

But I'm also the type of player that's cool with filling in party gaps so that often helps me decide on something.
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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #51 on: October 20, 2012, 09:37:42 PM »
Don't really have set ideas actually.

Thinking maybe a sniper(the homebrew class from these forums).

But I'm also the type of player that's cool with filling in party gaps so that often helps me decide on something.
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Offline ShadowViper

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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #52 on: October 23, 2012, 02:32:06 AM »
Alrighty still don't really have a clue what I want to play(nothing really is jumping out so far that is making me say "Yes! That")

But I've come up with a few rough ideas.

1) Since we're in need of a divine caster, probably a cleric of some sort. What is the Pantheon of this campaign?

2) Sniper homebrew class, was really tempted to select it for my Yuan-Ti in SirP's High Arcana game.

3) Elven Generalist Wizard, hopefully with the Pathfinder Elf instead of 3.5 Elf(Basically just an extra +2 to INT).

4) Druid could be fun too

5) Maybe a Changeling Beguiler, but probably not since we already have a beguiler.

Feedback appreciated. Don't want anyone waiting on me.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 02:34:10 AM by ShadowViper »
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #53 on: October 23, 2012, 02:37:16 AM »
Needs moar homebrew.  How about a Shadowcaster, Ætherforge, or Nullblade?
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Offline ShadowViper

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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #54 on: October 23, 2012, 02:43:19 AM »
Not sure about any of those, but thank you for the suggestions!

My problem right now is narrowing down choices heh.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 02:55:16 AM by ShadowViper »
I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space with the tuning fork does a raw blink on Hara-Kiri rock! I need scissors! 61!

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Offline ariasderros

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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #55 on: October 23, 2012, 12:53:24 PM »
Alrighty still don't really have a clue what I want to play(nothing really is jumping out so far that is making me say "Yes! That")

But I've come up with a few rough ideas.

1) Since we're in need of a divine caster, probably a cleric of some sort. What is the Pantheon of this campaign?
This campaign uses the Oerth / Grayhawk pantheon (in its entirety), and the various racial pantheons, including the draconic.
Though, anyone with decent heal ranks can cover most of the necessary healing for anyone with a Con score out of battle. For those without a Con score, there is the Dread Necro. The only healing needed otherwise is to remove certain statuses, like death or petrification, but that isn't quite as common of a concern as anything else. (Promise, if you're going after a Basilisk or something, you'll know well in advance)
Other than healing or damage, in general, arcane > divine for Utility, BFC, CC, et alli.

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2) Sniper homebrew class, was really tempted to select it for my Yuan-Ti in SirP's High Arcana game.
I've been looking that over as much as I can in between everything else, the only thing I have to say thus far is the "Called Shot" trick only procs abilities that trigger on a crit if the "confirmation roll" would be a threat, and if the "confirmation roll" misses, then the whole attack misses.
This is still potentially better than "auto-confirm the crit abilities", since there are a lot more positive modifiers that only apply to confirmation rolls.
I feel it should be noted that I am no where near done reading that class though. But I do like it so far.

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3) Elven Generalist Wizard, hopefully with the Pathfinder Elf instead of 3.5 Elf(Basically just an extra +2 to INT).
... I'm an elven fanboy. Full on annoyed my 2nd edition play-group with my bladesinger from "The Book of the Master Race".
But +2 int, +2 spellcraft, and +2 for CL v. SR, for no trade-off or LA?
That's worse than the Whisper Gnome or Strongheart Halfling in balance.
Grey Elves have +2 Int, -2 Str, and don't have "Elven Magic"
Fire Elves change for +2 Int, -2Cha. (and the Fire traits, which are a "wash")
Fire Grey Elves thus have +4 Int, -2 Str, -2 Cha.

Then of course, you have the whole "Eidetic Spellcaster + Aerenal Arcanist + Collegiate Wizard + Elven Generalist" trick of "What spells do you know? / ALL OF THEM!" (this gets you 6 spells per level, and no need for the spellbook) (of course, I prefer to keep my hummingbird, even if that means I need the spellbook)

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4) Druid could be fun too
agreed

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5) Maybe a Changeling Beguiler, but probably not since we already have a beguiler.
I wouldn't. Two people specialized in enchantment + illusion is redundant. And the beguiler only really has so many ways to capitalize on his class abilities that you really can't have two of them that're all that different.

Quote
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The only one waiting is Inna.
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« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 12:58:46 PM by ariasderros »
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Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2012, 05:34:39 PM »
Does Talented work on a Wilder's Wild Surge?

Do you have any other revisions for Warlock such as extra invocations like Perce did in High Arcana?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 12:58:16 AM by Jackinthegreen »

Offline ShadowViper

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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2012, 05:56:46 PM »
Alrighty still don't really have a clue what I want to play(nothing really is jumping out so far that is making me say "Yes! That")

But I've come up with a few rough ideas.

1) Since we're in need of a divine caster, probably a cleric of some sort. What is the Pantheon of this campaign?
This campaign uses the Oerth / Grayhawk pantheon (in its entirety), and the various racial pantheons, including the draconic.
Though, anyone with decent heal ranks can cover most of the necessary healing for anyone with a Con score out of battle. For those without a Con score, there is the Dread Necro. The only healing needed otherwise is to remove certain statuses, like death or petrification, but that isn't quite as common of a concern as anything else. (Promise, if you're going after a Basilisk or something, you'll know well in advance)
Other than healing or damage, in general, arcane > divine for Utility, BFC, CC, et alli.

I think at this point I've pretty much narrowed it down to either a Sniper or Wizard.

Quote
Quote
2) Sniper homebrew class, was really tempted to select it for my Yuan-Ti in SirP's High Arcana game.
I've been looking that over as much as I can in between everything else, the only thing I have to say thus far is the "Called Shot" trick only procs abilities that trigger on a crit if the "confirmation roll" would be a threat, and if the "confirmation roll" misses, then the whole attack misses.
This is still potentially better than "auto-confirm the crit abilities", since there are a lot more positive modifiers that only apply to confirmation rolls.
I feel it should be noted that I am no where near done reading that class though. But I do like it so far.

Still going over it myself.

Quote
Quote
3) Elven Generalist Wizard, hopefully with the Pathfinder Elf instead of 3.5 Elf(Basically just an extra +2 to INT).
... I'm an elven fanboy. Full on annoyed my 2nd edition play-group with my bladesinger from "The Book of the Master Race".
But +2 int, +2 spellcraft, and +2 for CL v. SR, for no trade-off or LA?
That's worse than the Whisper Gnome or Strongheart Halfling in balance.
Grey Elves have +2 Int, -2 Str, and don't have "Elven Magic"
Fire Elves change for +2 Int, -2Cha. (and the Fire traits, which are a "wash")
Fire Grey Elves thus have +4 Int, -2 Str, -2 Cha.

Then of course, you have the whole "Eidetic Spellcaster + Aerenal Arcanist + Collegiate Wizard + Elven Generalist" trick of "What spells do you know? / ALL OF THEM!" (this gets you 6 spells per level, and no need for the spellbook) (of course, I prefer to keep my hummingbird, even if that means I need the spellbook)

I really only wanted the +2 Int along with the normal +2 Dex and -2 Con.

So what about +2 Int, +2 Dex, -2 Con with the normal 3.5 racial abilities? Forgot about the other extras Pathfinder added, been awhile since I actually looked over them.

Quote
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4) Druid could be fun too
agreed
Still seems intriguing but have no idea what race heh.

Quote
Quote
5) Maybe a Changeling Beguiler, but probably not since we already have a beguiler.
I wouldn't. Two people specialized in enchantment + illusion is redundant. And the beguiler only really has so many ways to capitalize on his class abilities that you really can't have two of them that're all that different.
I agree, just one of the options I was considering.

I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space with the tuning fork does a raw blink on Hara-Kiri rock! I need scissors! 61!

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Offline ariasderros

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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2012, 01:07:15 PM »
Does Talented work on a Wilder's Wild Surge?
Talented prevents you from taking the damage dealt by Overchannel.
Wild Surge cannot be used with Overchannel.
Wild Surge deals no damage to be prevent.

I'm not sure what the interaction is that you're asking about.

Quote
Do you have any other revisions for Warlock such as extra invocations like Perce did in High Arcana?
:plot
Any extra invocations would also have to be granted to the DFA to keep the two comparable.
I'm not sure of how / if I'd want to do that.


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(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

I really only wanted the +2 Int along with the normal +2 Dex and -2 Con.

So what about +2 Int, +2 Dex, -2 Con with the normal 3.5 racial abilities? Forgot about the other extras Pathfinder added, been awhile since I actually looked over them.
I'm still not sure about that, since it still gives you something for nothing. At least the Grey Elves takes a penalty (to a dump stat) for the boost. Fire Elves penalty is a bit less of a dump stat, but still a dump stat, though you also take a -2 against water magic (which is more to offset the resist 5 to fire).


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4) Druid could be fun too
agreed
Still seems intriguing but have no idea what race heh.
My favorite Druid was a Silverbrow Human. With the bonus' from Dragonblood subtype on some of her self-buffs (Primal spell-chain comes to mind).
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« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 02:27:23 PM by ariasderros »
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Pre-game and "mother-may-I"s with the DM
« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2012, 03:44:20 PM »
I like shifter druids, personally.  With or without Moonspeaker.

BTW -- if you're going to be a druid, go with a Wild Reaper variant from Dragon Mag something. You get turn undead & fast ability healing.
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