Author Topic: [PF] Taking advantage of Sifkesh's 2nd Evangelist boon  (Read 3513 times)

Offline Power

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[PF] Taking advantage of Sifkesh's 2nd Evangelist boon
« on: March 01, 2022, 12:11:09 PM »
BACKGROUND INFO:

So, Pathfinder decided to redo its Demonic Obedience into Fiendish Obedience (and sometimes into Deific Obedience) and gave a lot of demon lords extra sets of powers for worshiping them. The new Evangelist and Sentinel boons can be obtained through Damned Disciple and Damned Soldier feats, as well as through the Demoniac/Souldrinker/Diabolist prestige classes, which all let you choose which set of boons you want. Incidentally, Diabolist has been massively nerfed (Imp companion has been destroyed, 1st level no longer advances spellcasting, and now requires LE instead of LN, LE, or NE) and Souldrinker slightly nerfed (mostly with regard to using soul points for staff recharging and the capstone SLAs, but using it for magic item creation is actually buffed). In addition to that, you can take the regular Evangelist, Exalted, and Sentinel prestige classes to advance Fiendish Obedience, but with a special nerf, unlike the same allowances that are made for Fey Obedience and Monitor Obedience (which do not elevate the prereqs of those PrCs when used to advance them). Here is what Book of the Damned has to say:
Quote from: Book of the Damned, pg. 3
While the Hit Dice at which you gain boons via Fiendish Obedience or Deific Obedience (from Inner Sea Gods) are identical, the prestige classes in Inner Sea Gods (the evangelist, exalted, and sentinel) that allow accelerated boon achievement have lower entrance requirements than the prestige classes in this book. As a result, if you wish to use one of those three prestige classes for a character who wishes to gain the boons presented by one of the fiendish divinities in this book, increase the requirements for entry into evangelist, exalted, or sentinel so that a character must be 7th level before selecting the class, as summarized below.
  • Evangelist: Base attack bonus +7, 7 ranks in a skill other than Knowledge (religion), or ability to cast 4th-level spells.
  • Exalted: Diplomacy 7 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 7 ranks, ability to cast 4th-level divine spells.
  • Sentinel: Base attack bonus +7.

There are a few cases where Deific and Fiendish Obedience give the same reward (like Asmodeus and Mahathallah), making this kinda ridiculous, and a few other cases where they have both sets, but with different rewards for each (Lamashtu, Mephistopheles, Moloch, Geryon).

THE DEAL:

So Sifkesh now has the following Evangelist boon which seems rather interesting:
Quote
2: Blasphemer’s Piety (Ex) Your blasphemous soul adapts effortlessly to reflect the convictions of others. When you are targeted by an effect based on alignment or patron deity, you can choose to be treated as having the alignment and faith of the creature originating the effect (you don’t need to know that creature’s alignment or faith to make this choice). You can also be treated as having the faith of your target or targets when using a spell or effect dependent on patron deity. Making this choice does not require an action, or even awareness that you are being targeted (in which case the ability always functions as best benefits the character in that situation). In addition, you can select feats, traits, and other options dependent on worship of particular deities as though you were a worshiper of those deities. Once per week, you can choose to perform the obedience of any lawful or good deity with which you are familiar instead of Sifkesh’s obedience. This still grants you your normal benefits from Sifkesh, not those from the other faith.

In brief: You count as the religion and alignment of any creature that is targeting you (unless you don't want to), and if you are targeting them with an effect dependent on deity, you can count as their religion also. Also, you can use any option for any deity as if you worship them. Lastly, you can copy another deity's obedience ritual 1/week and still get Sifkesh's benefits.

Annoyingly, you cannot take options as if your alignment were other than it is (so anything that requires your alignment to match or be within 1 step of deity will still stop you), and a magic item that operates on its own (rather than being used by a creature, which makes for a creature originating the effect) will still expose you (but you can just use UMD for that, although the GM might also require you to make the appropriate Perception check first).

So, I'm wondering about how to go about taking advantage of this, and if anyone has ideas, by all means feel free to share them. Probably the first idea that comes to mind is probably taking an extra Deific/Celestial/Fey/Monitor Obedience feat, but if you aren't a Cleric (or using Evangelist/Exalted/Sentinel PrCs), nothing is actually stopping you from legitimately worshiping more than 1 deity in the first place (Blood of the Coven, for instance, establishes the presence of people who prefer to worship 3 deities, and there are other feats for worshiping pantheons as well, like Pantheistic Blessing) so there's no need to fake worship as one of Sifkesh's devoted.

What does stand out to me though, is using this to take advantage of those deities that give classes access to extra spells and other options. That doesn't even take a feat or anything, just worship, and you qualify as worshiping them alright.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2022, 06:07:51 AM by Power »

Offline Power

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Re: Taking advantage of Sifkesh's 2nd Evangelist boon
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2022, 12:36:00 PM »
So what I'm thinking of right now is going to town with Ecclesitheurge Cleric while expanding your spell list with literally every deity's Cleric options. As an Ecclesitheurge, you get both a primary domain (which you can even prepare in non-domain slots) and a secondary domain, and the Ecclesitheurge can choose a new secondary domain every time he prepares spells, gaining access to that domain's spell list instead of the secondary domain list's (but only the spell list - you keep the initial secondary domain's domain powers). Seems like you can take Loss (or Trickery) as your primary domain and Madness as your secondary domain for the domain power then, and take advantage of Sifkesh's 2nd Evangelist boon (obtained by either Demoniac, Evangelist, or being level 16 with Damned Disciple) to gain access to literally every domain's spell list in the game. To top it off you can use an Icon of Aspects to switch your Loss domain's domain powers into any domain you want. Side note, you might be able to stack Ecclesitheurge with Hidden Priest also.

Alternatively you can take the (normally awful) Appeaser Cleric archetype and take advantage of its ability to temporarily give you any domain, along with its domain powers, and cast all its spells spontaneously by sacrificing prepared spell slots of the same or higher level as a standard action. That actually gets very powerful in this build. The Appeaser also has the benefit of being able to wear shields and armor, unlike the Ecclesitheurge.

Other than that, I may try to assemble a list of how expanded the Cleric's list of spells becomes when you have access to every deity's class spells. Honestly, you can pull that stunt with every spellcasting class, not just Clerics, and the list is probably going to be stupidly large.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2022, 09:58:38 AM by Power »

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Taking advantage of Sifkesh's 2nd Evangelist boon
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2022, 02:55:05 PM »
Because of the power levels of many obediences, I'd get all the obedience feats and mix-and-match. Monitor, Fey, Demonic, Deific, and Fiendish

You can even switch out the permanent effects, once you have them already.

Imagine a true werewolf ghost worm that Walks ghoul w temporary vampirism w permanent mind blank and has limited wish 2/day and regeneration 5, and super uncanny dodge.

Or you could get sneak attack +10d6 w 3 obedience feats
« Last Edit: March 01, 2022, 03:00:09 PM by zook1shoe »
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Offline Power

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Re: Taking advantage of Sifkesh's 2nd Evangelist boon
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2022, 03:29:59 PM »
Hm, it does seem like you can just switch which deity's obedience you do each day (except for which Fiendish Obedience you do, since you need Sifkesh's Evangelist boon to keep the rest going). That does open up a bit of silliness.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Taking advantage of Sifkesh's 2nd Evangelist boon
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2022, 07:24:25 PM »
You could feasibly switch Sifkesh's around a little too. The 2nd is the only one that must stay the same, while the 1st and 3rd could go towards other deities.
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Offline Power

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Re: Taking advantage of Sifkesh's 2nd Evangelist boon
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2022, 08:44:47 PM »
No, performing 3 fiendish obediences in 1 day with 1 feat is not a reasonable option, not even if you want to divide a single assortment of boons between deities.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Taking advantage of Sifkesh's 2nd Evangelist boon
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2022, 11:51:49 AM »
Arshea, Calistria, Nocticula, and the Green Mother all involve having sex and none of the unique aspects of the act contradict another.

afterwords, you'd get some chunky bonuses to skills and saves.
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Offline Power

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Re: Taking advantage of Sifkesh's 2nd Evangelist boon
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2022, 03:48:58 PM »
Yeah, getting Obediences that don't take up too much time would probably be useful. The combination you just mentioned also looks like it's fit for a cha-based build.

And on a side note, finished the complete list of expanded spellcasting options a Cleric + Evangelist of Sifkesh gets, by making use of every deity's spell list additions. It's a pretty good list:

0th level spells:1st level spells:2nd level spells:3rd level spells:4th level spells:5th level spells:6th level spells:7th level spells:8th level spells:9th level spells:
« Last Edit: November 09, 2022, 09:07:21 AM by Power »

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: [PF] Taking advantage of Sifkesh's 2nd Evangelist boon
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2022, 05:52:52 PM »
Nice job.

There's some summon monster options via deities, like a wererat rogue or shadows. A bunch just early access.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2022, 05:57:54 PM by zook1shoe »
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Offline Power

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Re: [PF] Taking advantage of Sifkesh's 2nd Evangelist boon
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2022, 09:44:37 PM »
Yeah. The Master Summon List details those. I know for a fact that list is missing some options, but when it comes to deities I'm pretty sure it has all of them covered.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2022, 10:11:02 PM by Power »

Offline Power

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Re: [PF] Taking advantage of Sifkesh's 2nd Evangelist boon
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2022, 11:57:36 AM »
Well, this evangelist boon also lets you take advantage of Ceremony (see downtime rules to figure out how spending goods/labor/magic works) and Invoke Deity, so that's pretty nice. You can use Major Creation to cover the focus component requirement, since Major Creation only causes spells to fail if you use your creations as material components.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2023, 05:05:07 PM by Power »

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: [PF] Taking advantage of Sifkesh's 2nd Evangelist boon
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2022, 12:35:01 PM »
would it bypass this ritual's requirements to stay loyal to Zon-Kuthon? it seems a little vague
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Offline Power

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Re: [PF] Taking advantage of Sifkesh's 2nd Evangelist boon
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2022, 05:24:59 PM »
No, you're screwed there. The ritual doesn't care about the religion of the casters or target. It simply ties a part of the target's soul to Zon-Kuthon and forces them to avoid blaspheming Zon-Kuthon's faith (along with the LE transition and perks) with Zon-Kuthon personally maintaining a hold over a sliver of your soul. The target is not even forced to switch religion. Honestly, being an Evangelist of Sifkesh seems like a dangerous enterprise for someone who got hit by that ritual, considering the penalties for committing heretical acts against his faith.

Also, switching to LE will probably ruin you as a Cleric of Sifkesh, as this is more than 1 alignment step away from CE. If you want to mess with a ritual like that, you'd probably have to spend 25k gp and request a Miracle from Sifkesh ahead of time.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2022, 05:45:41 AM by Power »

Offline Power

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Re: [PF] Taking advantage of Sifkesh's 2nd Evangelist boon
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2022, 12:29:38 PM »
So, a few other perks come to mind: Taking the Dreamed Secrets feat without having to worship a Great Old One or Outer God, taking the Worthless Pawn religion trait through the Additional Traits feat to potentially cast spells of any alignment (very useful for Appeaser Clerics), and of course the usual deity-specific feats and divine fighting style.

A CN Cleric could also prestige into Stargazer. Honestly, the 3rd Sifkesh Evangelist boon (Creatures that fail mind-affecting saving throws must save or for 1 round be nauseated if good or staggered if neither evil nor good) seems skippable, since it defaults to being a cha-based DC, so you're free to PrC out of Evangelist right after level 6 (level 13 total).

And it looks like Balanced Scale of Abadar is also available for PrCing, as it does not have alignment prereqs.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2022, 05:34:11 PM by Power »

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Re: [PF] Taking advantage of Sifkesh's 2nd Evangelist boon
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2022, 03:59:06 PM »
Bumping to note that I hyperlinked the Cleric spell list and that you can use the boon with Divine Fighting Technique to practice multiple deities' fighting styles simultaneously, like combining Asmodeus's Mandate with Cayden Cailean's Blade and Tankard.

Offline Power

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Re: [PF] Taking advantage of Sifkesh's 2nd Evangelist boon
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2024, 11:05:34 AM »
Looks like a Sacrament Alchemist can use this to obtain any Cleric domain's domain powers. Honestly, you're probably better off playing an Appeaser Cleric for spontaneous domains most of the time, but worth noting anyway.

Offline Zinoth of Chaos

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Re: [PF] Taking advantage of Sifkesh's 2nd Evangelist boon
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2024, 03:50:31 PM »
You can get around the alignment limitations of Sifkesh by taking a level dip into Infiltrator Inquisitor as it lets you both detect as a chosen alignment every day and allows for casting spells of your deitiy's opposing alignments. I plan on going 1 Infiltrator Inquisitor / 6 Appeaser or Ecclesitheurge & Hidden Priest Cleric / 6 Evangelist / 7 Stargazer.