Author Topic: [PF] Going to town with Limited Wish, Wish, and Miracle  (Read 1603 times)

Offline Power

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[PF] Going to town with Limited Wish, Wish, and Miracle
« on: May 07, 2023, 02:10:13 AM »
I thought we needed a thread about more silliness.

The first stunt that comes to mind is making Limited Wish and Wish pay for themselves:
  • Limited Wish costs 1,500gp in diamond and can duplicate a spell with a component cost of up to 1,000 gp without paying component cost. Wish costs 25,000gp in diamond and can duplicate a spell with a component cost of up to 10,000 gp without paying component cost.
  • Fabricate happens to treat the raw materials it uses to Fabricate into new objects as a component cost.
  • Crafting an object only consumes 1/3rd its final price in raw material.
  • Therefore, use Limited Wish to duplicate a Fabricate using 1k gp's worth of very rough raw diamond to produce 3k gp's worth of perfectly cut diamond, making a Craft (jewelry) check (DC20 as a "superior item") appropriately. Similarly, Wish can make 30k gp of diamond by letting you cast a 10k gp Fabricate.
And just like that, your Limited Wish and Wish spells are producing their own spell components at a profit. Cast 1 Limited Wish and make spell components sufficient for 2 Limited Wishes. Cast Wish 5 times and you get enough surplus diamond for a 6th Wish free. You might have to merge the 5 5k gp diamonds into 1 with a regular Fabricate spellcast, though.

Another well-known stunt is taking advantage of how these spells duplicate other spells as a standard action. The famous example is using Limited Wish to duplicate Geas as a standard action, creating a No Save lose effect.

Then there is using discounted spells. Miracle, when copying spells off of the Summoner, Bard, etc. spell lists, can cast all kinds of high-level Wizard spells that are not otherwise available to Miracle. You can do the same with Limited Wish and Wish to cast a few higher-level spells than it can copy off of full caster lists. Bear in mind there is no restriction that you must duplicate spells only from class's default spell lists. If there is an archetype, domain, feat, deity-worship, or whatever that grants a spell at a discounted level, that means the spell exists in a lower level version and is, as such, eligible for duplication.

And on that note, you can use Limited Wish to duplicate a spell effect sufficiently for a Ring of Spell Knowledge by providing you an arcane version of whatever esoteric spell you desire (every spell has an arcane form courtesy of Loremaster PrC's Secret of Magical Discipline feat, let alone the Spell Sage Wizard or Skald's Spell Kenning). With a freeform Limited Wish, you can probably just directly impart knowledge of the spell effect into your Ring of Spell Knowledge. The #1 trick that comes to mind here is using it to give yourself Alchemical Allocation (incidentally, the Antiquarian Investigator casts the Alchemist/Investigator list as arcane spells). But you can also use this to get discounted spells in your Ring of Spell Knowledge. Remember that if you UMD the Ring of Spell Knowledge, you can get it to treat a spell as being on your class list, bypassing any spell level penalties.

Giving yourself templates. This one is a classic, especially if you are getting your Wish granted by a fey, genie, or devil. If you use Miracle or Wish with the full 25k gp component, probably you can get a template as a free-form request/wish, within reason.

Making spells/items undispellable without Miracle/Wish. The ultimate in anti-dispel shields. It stands to reason that if certain effects can only be undone with Miracle or Wish, you can also use Miracle or Wish to make certain effects immune to dispel or any other removal unless the enemy uses a Miracle or Wish.

Request anything in line with your deity's precepts. This is a Miracle stunt, but if you have a request in mind that seems poised to fulfill your deity's ethos or is otherwise strongly under their portfolio or something that they would do, you can probably swing a Miracle for it. A Cleric of Abadar can buy, sell, or rent just about anything from their deity with a Miracle (admittedly you could also just Plane Shift to Aktun). A Cleric of Cayden Cailean can probably get an entire city drunk and disorderly. And so on.

Then there is Occult Rituals.
  • The first idea is to use a freeform Limited Wish, Wish, or Miracle to grant yourself knowledge of an occult ritual bypassing standard research rules. This can save quite a bit of time and avoid annoying int checks. On that note, though, you can probably use a freeform Limited Wish just to give yourself a huge bonus on the int check to research a ritual and make it pretty much auto-pass. Of course, you can also just use backstory research while taking 20 on the ability check (you can take 20 on ability checks, just like skill checks) and start a campaign with the appropriate ritual knowledge.
  • But we can do better. You see, Pathfinder explicitly counts Occult Rituals as a "form of spellcasting." Haunted Communion even refers to itself as a spell. By this token, Limited Wish can duplicate any ritual effect level 5 or lower and Miracle/Wish can duplicate any ritual level 7 or lower. Even if your GM were to declare that they shouldn't be counted as spells, Limited Wish and Miracle both explicitly allow you to "produce any other effect whose power level is in line with the above effects" (said above effects including duplicating spell effects), so Rituals, as an effect whose power level is in line with spells, are duplicable regardless. Wish does not explicitly detail that capability, but allows for freeform wishes that have even greater effect than the detailed list, so duplicating an effect in line with the above should be perfectly viable. This opens up some rather fun options without having to undergo the standard ritual research, preparation, or skill check requirements, since you duplicate the effects instantly.

Anyone have ideas for more stunts? Let's get the ball rolling.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2023, 09:25:26 PM by Power »

Offline Nanashi

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Re: [PF] Going to town with Limited Wish, Wish, and Miracle
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2023, 09:17:02 PM »
Bypassing the component cost of Fabricate for infinite money is pretty old at this point, and can be done in dozen+ different ways. False Focus, the various ways of getting it as a SLA, and that one bard ability that gets Limited Wish with an ability drain cost come to mind.

Offline Power

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Re: [PF] Going to town with Limited Wish, Wish, and Miracle
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2023, 10:34:42 PM »
Also Blood Money, although that one gets a bit cheesy with Fabricate for basically bypassing Blood Money's "use it or lose it" restriction. But it's not about infinite money. You can get infinite money just by casting Wall of Stone and using Fabricate to make masterwork stone warhammers out of it.* It's about being able to take care of Limited Wish's component cost with nothing other than Limited Wish itself.

*They nerfed Wall of Iron to prevent this (and effectively make Wall of Iron largely useless, given the higher spell level, component cost, and the lower level alternatives of Wall of Stone and Wall of Force), but you can still fabricate Wall of Stone, and making one-handed bludgeoning weapons out of stone is explicitly legal.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2023, 09:33:43 AM by Power »

Offline Nanashi

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Re: [PF] Going to town with Limited Wish, Wish, and Miracle
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2023, 08:26:41 PM »
Now the question to ask might be what other spells can be used to exploit free material components.

Offline Power

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Re: [PF] Going to town with Limited Wish, Wish, and Miracle
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2023, 11:17:36 AM »
I don't know about exploiting free components but there is another stunt that is possible by using Limited Wish. The Brewkeeper PrC lets Wizards and the like make draughts (which explicitly function as potions and oils) of spells higher than 3rd level (other limitations still apply). This means you can avoid the casting time limitations and make a draught of Raise Dead and have an ally apply it as an oil mid-combat, for instance.

Also, with Limited Wish you can Paragon Surge as any race, especially considering that the Self-Realization domain offers Paragon Surge at 4th level with a race equal to your own.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2023, 12:25:39 PM by Power »

Offline Power

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Re: [PF] Going to town with Limited Wish, Wish, and Miracle
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2023, 09:22:08 PM »
With a Ring of Spell Knowledge, you can use Limited Wish to provide any arcane spell, no matter how esoteric and rare.

By the same token, I imagine it would be possible to craft potions, scrolls, wands, and staves of spells that you do not know by supplying them through a Limited Wish or Miracle which you request to be as weak as a normal spell cast that way (for minimum spell level and caster level requirements).

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: [PF] Going to town with Limited Wish, Wish, and Miracle
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2023, 01:13:21 AM »
my go-to is Occult Rituals for copying, dont need to research or worry about the (easy) checks.

derp... missed the end of your post. i dont read medium-length texts fully either
« Last Edit: July 10, 2023, 01:16:12 AM by zook1shoe »
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Offline Power

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Re: [PF] Going to town with Limited Wish, Wish, and Miracle
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2023, 01:07:31 PM »
Well, you can use it to perform esoteric variants of spells with Limited Wish and Miracle, giving you access to Oread Gem Magic without being an Oread, for instance, in case you want DR 15/Adamantine Stoneskin or 10 minute/lvl duration Elemental Body spells.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2023, 01:10:20 PM by Power »

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: [PF] Going to town with Limited Wish, Wish, and Miracle
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2023, 03:45:32 PM »
the 3pp Pathways #82 by Rite Publishing has a bunch of wish stuff

* Limitless template
* Minor Wish (sor/wiz 4)
* Hero's Dying Wish (sor/wiz 7)
* Greater Wish (sor/wiz 11)

never seen an 11th level spell in PF, outside some of the epic conversion stuff
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