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Meta Board => Retired PbP Games => Archive => [D&D 3.5] Mythic Sagas => Topic started by: ksbsnowowl on August 27, 2013, 05:29:58 PM

Title: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on August 27, 2013, 05:29:58 PM
Here is the place to bring up rules questions.

This is more for clarification of rules interactions, how I rule on vague wording, etc.  Stuff where we'd want to be able to refer back to it easily, rather than dig through pages of OOC thread to find how I ruled it worked last time.
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: Lycanshee on August 27, 2013, 05:40:29 PM
Is our starting gold as 5th level (9k) or 6th level characters (13k)? Or a custom amount I didn't catch?
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on August 27, 2013, 05:43:52 PM
Is our starting gold as 5th level (9k) or 6th level characters (13k)? Or a custom amount I didn't catch?
12,000 gp

It won't be long before you guys level.
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 28, 2013, 09:15:22 AM
Do you allow retraining? Specifically, I took a feat which I could pick up as a bonus several levels from now. I'd like to basically "move" that feat to the bonus slot, and retrain the original feat slot to something else. This won't happen for several levels, and isn't a big deal. Just thought I'd ask to get it out of the way.
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on August 28, 2013, 09:33:36 AM
I don't really like it, but I've been bullied into it long enough that I just accept it.  :P
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: Risada on August 29, 2013, 05:50:09 PM
Question: the Divine Companion ACF does not mention what happens if I cast a 0-level spell on the companion. How much energy does it absorb from the spell? None? There are a few effects that make 0 level spells count as 1/2 level.

Divine Companion description for reference:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on August 29, 2013, 06:30:11 PM
I don't see a problem with letting it count as half a level.  (Risada now has no 0-level spell slots left, ever ;))
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 29, 2013, 07:35:33 PM
I don't see a problem with letting it count as half a level.  (Risada now has no 0-level spell slots left, ever ;))
:lol Yeah, that's why I took Versatile Spellcaster. 0->1, 1->2, and maybe a couple 2s->3 (for that third Fireball of the day).  ;) I kept having trouble deciding between that and Expel Vestige, and finally decided I could take VS now and EV when we level up.
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: Risada on August 29, 2013, 09:53:46 PM
I don't see a problem with letting it count as half a level.  (Risada now has no 0-level spell slots left, ever ;))
:lol Yeah, that's why I took Versatile Spellcaster. 0->1, 1->2, and maybe a couple 2s->3 (for that third Fireball of the day).  ;) I kept having trouble deciding between that and Expel Vestige, and finally decided I could take VS now and EV when we level up.

I plan on taking VS as well... But not now. This must have something to do with the muscles on Agni's brain Agni's style...
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 29, 2013, 09:57:29 PM
Flaws are not allowed in this game, right?
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on August 29, 2013, 10:35:03 PM
Flaws are not allowed in this game, right?
Correct.
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 30, 2013, 08:45:22 AM
Divination once every 5 rounds? (If I'm remembering how the abilities work w/o use limits listed.). That seems quite powerful.  Or is it less often than that?

I swear I posted a link to this earlier... but here  (http://www.scribd.com/doc/38835505/Tome-of-Magic-Additional-Vestige-Collection-v2-1-2)are the compilation of vestiges found outside the Tome of Magic (but still from official sources, no homebrew). Astaroth: Diabolus of Baator is the one that gives Divination as a spell-like ability useable at will.

Since the casting time is 10 minutes on Divination, and as far as I know SLAs keep the casting time of the original, I think you'd of course be limited to using it once every 10 minutes. You'd also still get the same answer if you Divine the same topic multiple times (including incorrect/false answers), as that's how the spell works. The caster level is equal to effective binder level. Since we have a cleric, we could access divination once we hit 7th level. The main advantage this would hold is that we'd get it a couple of levels earlier (which is really thanks to the Improved Binding feat), and we could save the 25 gp spent on the material component.
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on August 30, 2013, 09:39:42 AM
Good point on the ten-minute casting time...

You did post it before.  I just was unable to view it at the time.

Sounds good.  Go for it.
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 30, 2013, 09:47:01 AM
You did post it before.  I just was unable to view it at the time.
I couldn't find my previous post... I wound up having to google it again to get a link. That's what I was actually commenting on. I thought maybe I hadn't posted it after all, but just thought I had. (My memory sucks, and I do this kind of crap all the time, which drives my wife bonkers :P)

Edit: Would you prefer to refluff vestiges to fit your campaign cosmology better? For example, this vestige's history deals a lot with the Blood War, which probably doesn't even exist, right? This kind of stuff probably won't even come up in game, so it's not really that important, but it might be fun and interesting if we have time to rework them as they are used.
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on August 30, 2013, 11:18:28 AM
I'll refluff some of them, sure.  The Blood War doesn't really exist in its typical D&D form, no.  But there are still factions of fiends in Niflheim.  Sometimes they'll work together, and sometimes they'll betray each other, or go into outright war.  It's a lot more "tribal" than typical D&D fiends, but a Pit Fiend is more likely to trust and side with a Horned Devil than a Balor.
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 30, 2013, 11:38:22 AM
I was just curious. My character likely wouldn't even know a lot of details about the vestiges she binds, as she has no ranks in any knowledge skills. So she is hardly a scholar, and likely just knows the names and signs of the vestiges, and probably a few things about them (which may or may not even be true :P ).
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: Risada on August 30, 2013, 11:51:42 AM
ksb, whats your take on a wand containing a spell cast as an immediate action? The wand's activation time is standard action or the spell's original casting time?
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 30, 2013, 12:16:35 PM
ksb, whats your take on a wand containing a spell cast as an immediate action? The wand's activation time is standard action or the spell's original casting time?
FWIW, I'm pretty sure the Rules Compendium "clarified" that they use the same casting time as the spell. So wands of Nerveskitter are a go! (unless the DM decides otherwise :P)
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on August 30, 2013, 01:39:23 PM
Swift action (and by extension, I guess Immediate action) wands are good to go.
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: dna1 on September 01, 2013, 04:24:08 PM
for my animal companion how do you want me to roll hit dice? just standard?
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on September 01, 2013, 06:00:41 PM
for my animal companion how do you want me to roll hit dice? just standard?
You can take average, if you want.  Otherwise, roll for the best of two dice each level, just as Lycanshee did (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11181.msg187120#msg187120).
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: Risada on September 05, 2013, 10:05:20 PM
Can the bonus granted by Collector of Stories (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-scoundrel--60/collector-stories--3280/) skill trick be used together with Knowledge Devotion? I'm asking because I have found both yes and no as answers, so it's best to check with the current overlord  :)
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on September 05, 2013, 10:25:04 PM
Can the bonus granted by Collector of Stories (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-scoundrel--60/collector-stories--3280/) skill trick be used together with Knowledge Devotion? I'm asking because I have found both yes and no as answers, so it's best to check with the current overlord  :)
I'm going to side with "no" on this.  The Kn Devotion check and a general "identify it and tell me special attacks and defenses" check are two different things.  The skill trick only applies to the latter.
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: Risada on September 07, 2013, 10:43:51 PM
1) Suppose I cast this spell (http://dndtools.eu/spells/players-handbook-ii--80/evards-menacing-tentacles--3016/). Can I make trip attacks with the tentacles? (I'm guessing yes, but asking just to be sure)

2) Does Knowledge Devotion's bonus damage applies normally to attacks made by the spell at 1? What about Steeldance, from Spell Compendium? (also guessing yes)

3) How does this spell (http://dndtools.eu/spells/champions-of-ruin--27/control-darkness-and-shadow--291/) interact with True Darkness? Normally? (No changes to the spell)
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on September 07, 2013, 11:05:48 PM
1) Suppose I cast this spell (http://dndtools.eu/spells/players-handbook-ii--80/evards-menacing-tentacles--3016/). Can I make trip attacks with the tentacles? (I'm guessing yes, but asking just to be sure)
Yes, you can trip with it, as with an unarmed attack.  The target could probably still take an AoO on the tentacle...  (Hmm... what happens if a Large Troll with reach attempts a trip on a human who doesn't threaten him...?  Can an AoO be taken against the limb?  I'll investigate this aspect, and rule the same way for the tentacles.)

Quote
2) Does Knowledge Devotion's bonus damage applies normally to attacks made by the spell at 1? What about Steeldance, from Spell Compendium? (also guessing yes)
Yes, the damage from Knowledge Devotion would apply to all attacks you make that require an attack roll, including those from Evard's Menacing Tentacles. Wait, each tentacle sort of acts on its own, each getting its own AoO (neither of which counts as YOUR AoO for the round).   Hmmm.... I'm tempted to say that Knowledge Devotion wouldn't apply to the Tentacles or Steeldance.  But it also then means any AoO for a trip attack would have no affect on you, and the spell is effectively immune to AoO damage.

Quote
3) How does this spell (http://dndtools.eu/spells/champions-of-ruin--27/control-darkness-and-shadow--291/) interact with True Darkness? Normally? (No changes to the spell)
Deepen Darkness wouldn't have any affect, as True Darkness already gives you total concealment.  Lighten Darkness... would probably change the area to normal 3.5 Darkness (20% miss chance, you can see where creatures are located, but they can use it to hide).
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: Risada on September 07, 2013, 11:25:53 PM
Yes, you can trip with it, as with an unarmed attack.  The target could probably still take an AoO on the tentacle...  (Hmm... what happens if a Large Troll with reach attempts a trip on a human who doesn't threaten him...?  Can an AoO be taken against the limb?  I'll investigate this aspect, and rule the same way for the tentacles.)

Can I make trip attacks using my trip modifier with the tentacles? This question falls at the same category as question 2...

Yes, the damage from Knowledge Devotion would apply to all attacks you make that require an attack roll, including those from Evard's Menacing Tentacles. Wait, each tentacle sort of acts on its own, each getting its own AoO (neither of which counts as YOUR AoO for the round).   Hmmm.... I'm tempted to say that Knowledge Devotion wouldn't apply to the Tentacles or Steeldance.  But it also then means any AoO for a trip attack would have no affect on you, and the spell is effectively immune to AoO damage.

I am not sure at your reply here. Is it a no? Just asking  :blush
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on September 07, 2013, 11:39:11 PM
Sorry for being unclear. Yes you can trip with them. They would get any bonuses inherent to your form (ie- size bonuses) but not any based on your training (improved trip, etc).  They use your Strength modifier, just as the spell states they do.

Knowledge devotion does not apply to the tentacles' attacks.
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on September 08, 2013, 10:20:54 AM
Yes, you can trip with it, as with an unarmed attack.  The target could probably still take an AoO on the tentacle...  (Hmm... what happens if a Large Troll with reach attempts a trip on a human who doesn't threaten him...?  Can an AoO be taken against the limb?  I'll investigate this aspect, and rule the same way for the tentacles.)

So, no attacking limbs when they try to trip you.  From the Rules of the Game article on AoO's:
Quote
When You're Out of Reach

When no foes threaten you (that is, when you're not in any area that a foe threatens) you can get away with an action that normally provokes an attack of opportunity without actually provoking one. For example, if you have greater reach than your foe, you could try to sunder that foe's weapon or shield or disarm that foe without provoking an attack of opportunity provided that you stand outside the area the foe threatens while doing so.

The same article had this, though:
Quote
Adjacent Squares and Reach Weapons: There are some tricks you can use to threaten those adjacent squares when you're using a reach weapon. If you're a monk, your unarmed attacks continue to threaten the squares adjacent to you. Even if you're not a monk, you can use a smaller weapon to threaten the adjacent squares. You'll have to hold the reach weapon in one hand and wield the smaller weapon in the other hand. Since most reach weapons are two-handed weapons, you're only holding onto the reach weapon, not wielding it, and you don't threaten an area with it. Although the rules don't mention it, letting go of a two-handed weapon with one hand or putting a free hand back on the weapon is a free action for you. Drawing the smaller weapon requires an action, but if you have the Quick Draw feat, it's a free action. Note that you can take a free action only during your turn.

If you want to use this trick, you must draw the smaller weapon while it's still your turn. When you do so, you don't threaten any area with your larger weapon until you wield it in two hands again. To resume using the bigger weapon on your turn, you'll have to drop the smaller weapon (a free action) to free up your hand for the bigger weapon.

Weapons such as the spiked gauntlet or armor spikes are ready for use whenever you have a free hand, and you don't need to drop them to use your hand for something else.

So, can you "wield" armor spikes simultaneously while wielding a reach weapon? This article seems to say you can't, but I also know the Rules of the Game articles aren't gospel.
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: skydragonknight on September 08, 2013, 01:29:45 PM
I sort of envision using armor spikes as ramming someone with your shoulder (like a shield bash minus the shield). One DM I know called it a "belly bump." Either way, if a monk can do it... ;)
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on September 12, 2013, 01:00:29 AM
Just a note on how I read miss chance rolls.

20% miss chance: 1-20 misses; 21-100 hits.
50% miss chance: 1-50 misses; 51-100 hits.

It is a miss chance, not a hit chance.  Keep it simple; the % number and lower misses.  It also coincides with everything else in d20: High is good (for the roller).  Any other percentage roll will be read the same way; '% chance of X happening' means if you roll that number or lower, X happens.

You wouldn't believe the number of players I run into that try to say 81-100 is a miss, and 1-20 is still in the hit range.

Also, an unrelated note.  I only put it here because I've met some staunchly stubborn and backwards DM's.  Rage does not automatically end if you go unconscious.  The way I've seen some DM's rule it, any 5th level or higher barbarian who goes to -1 while raging, auto-dies.  Yeah, I don't do that shit (not that the rules support such an interpretation anyway).
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on September 12, 2013, 08:30:20 AM
I've always seen the armor spikes + reach weapon as a legit way to threaten both areas without burning a feat on EWP and being forced into using something stupid like a spiked chain. The article seems to agree: you can't normally do this with an off-hand weapon, but that's because you don't have a hand to wield the weapon. For things like a monk's unarmed strike, or armor spikes, you don't need a hand to wield them. So you can do it.
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: Nanshork on September 13, 2013, 05:50:42 PM
Can Einar ready an action to five foot step into a square if one of the animals dies/moves and then swing at a troll if one happens to be within range as part of the same readied action?
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on September 13, 2013, 06:48:53 PM
Can Einar ready an action to five foot step into a square if one of the animals dies/moves and then swing at a troll if one happens to be within range as part of the same readied action?
Yes, that should be fine.  A readied 5-foot step + attack is perfectly legal.

Quote
You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don’t otherwise move any distance during the round.
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: Risada on September 26, 2013, 08:33:01 AM
Just making sure here... The touch attack to start a trip attack is enough to channel my spells through the weapon, right? I have always played this way, so I don't know if there's a possibility for another way...
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on September 27, 2013, 09:13:16 AM
You know, I don't think there's anything that would prevent that from working.  Nice "hack."
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on October 09, 2013, 04:34:29 PM
So, the issue of flanking or not, when "flanking" with an invisible ally...

This issue came up in my RL game a few months back.  Here is the reply I gave them:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on October 18, 2013, 12:30:24 PM
Natural attacks, improved grab, and grapple:

Basically, you only deal damage once per round with the weapon initiating the improved grab grapple.

So, when the snow leopard attacks and grapples something, it goes like this:
Round 1: Bite (damage) -> successful grapple check [no additional damage]
Rounds 2+: Successful grapple check (bite damage)

If something has Constrict as well as improved grab, it works a touch differently:
Round 1: Bite (damage) -> successful grapple check [constriction damage]
Rounds 2+: Successful grapple check (Bite damage & constriction damage)

Quote
Improved Grab
...
A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: skydragonknight on October 18, 2013, 01:55:57 PM
Just going off memory, but can't you attack with a light weapon at a penalty while grappling? And aren't all natural weapons light weapons? So after substituting their natural weapon (probably the one associated with Improved Grab) for a grapple check as an attack option on the second round, couldn't the creature follow up with it's other natural weapons?
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on October 18, 2013, 02:32:45 PM
Just going off memory, but can't you attack with a light weapon at a penalty while grappling? And aren't all natural weapons light weapons? So after substituting their natural weapon (probably the one associated with Improved Grab) for a grapple check as an attack option on the second round, couldn't the creature follow up with it's other natural weapons?
Natural weapons are at a huge disadvantage in a grapple.  You only get to make one natural attack in a grapple, unless you have rake, and then you get the two of those as well.

Quote
Attack Your Opponent:  You can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a -4 penalty on such attacks.

You can’t attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons.
Quote
Rake

A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks when it grapples its foe. Normally, a monster can attack with only one of its natural weapons while grappling, but a monster with the rake ability usually gains two additional claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe.
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: Risada on February 18, 2014, 09:22:43 PM
So... according to this thread (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=12595.msg216902;topicseen#msg216902), anything that affects melee attacks can affect the Whirling Blade spell.

How does it work with Blade of Blood? Only the first creature struck is affected?

What about Bladeweave? Apply normally against all targets?

Arcane Strike and Power could work too...
Title: Re: Mythic Sagas: Rules Discussion
Post by: ksbsnowowl on February 19, 2014, 12:19:47 AM
So... according to this thread (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=12595.msg216902;topicseen#msg216902), anything that affects melee attacks can affect the Whirling Blade spell.

How does it work with Blade of Blood? Only the first creature struck is affected?
Correct. After the first hit the spell is discharged.
Quote
What about Bladeweave? Apply normally against all targets?
Bladeweave specifies that it works once per round.  If you attack 10 guys in the line, you could have the bladeweave affect any one of them that you successfully struck.
Quote
Arcane Strike and Power [Attack] could work too...
It appears they should.