High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom

[Raineh Daze]

Meanwhile, Amaterasu knows astrophysics! Woo! xD

Occam's razor: they're probably dead, given the ship exploded. Things get too complicated too quickly if you treat something like that as a ruse given the firepower that chased them.

[Anomander]

Aye. But you never know. A limb can suffice to clone someone so a frozen charred corpse could contain enough information to pull it off. Some folks are tougher than others too (such as surviving the 1000 feet fall by tanking the damage).
It didn't launch the escape pod and in the rules when a mecha is destroyed it automatically ejects you off. Perhaps there is the unwritten clause that you can switch that off without having to get the Glory in Death feat for option of using an immediate action to choose not to eject. Which would make sense.
Not sure if the pod is meant to carry only the pilot or also his passengers + other stuff in the mecha within his light weight capacity.
A Mecha stored in a ship that goes down may be all right within the wreckage if it was attended and ruined if unattended object. Or they are automatically ejected.
There is no clause for the crew and other passengers within the ship getting a pod if it gets destroyed, which may well mean that anyone, of any level, within a battleship that is destroyed would automatically perish. Good thing the Protectora is one tough girl!

[oslecamo]

Objects count as enemies only if the attacker considers them to be enemies. Bits of dead stuff are just dead and scraps are just scraps. I already mentioned that once an enemy is dead she has no enmity for it anymore. There is no point having feelings for something that isn't there anymore. If she tries to wreck an item it'll be made clear. She's aiming at the empty space to hit something stealth'd. Trying to feel the impact against something that doesn't seem to be there, not against debris that already is.
Mercy indeed does not apply to things that are not alive. I only mentioned it in case there was something still alive in there. She wouldn't have killed them if any.

3-Mao made it pretty explicit to be looking for the ship's whereabouts, believing it had not been destroyed but was all an elaborate light show. What if it was hiding behind an illusion/hologram of debris? Would Mao take that risk?

She doesn't have to worry about that. She ignores concealment, mirror images and similar miss chances. Mao can target an empty square and use something that targets enemies and if there are enemies there she'll ignore their miss chance. If something is there that she doesn't consider to be an enemy, she'll skip it. If Mao considers something that isn't clearly an enemy/ally as being one I'll be sure to mention it. Just like the warriors from before.
Either way it doesn't matter much in this case, as she is trying to hit a massive ship with a line attack. Holograms to look like a debris wouldn't change the space it occupies. Her line attack covers but a fraction of the space the ship occupied. There is a big lot of debris and corpses that weren't even covered by the line's area of effect. The idea was just make sure the space wasn't occupied.

No, you don't get to turn enemy/ally effects into uber scanners that chirurgically bypass stealth without causing any unwanted collateral damage. It's the whole point of hiding in plain sight/disguise, you are right there, others simply don't perceive you as an enemy. So either Mao is paranoid that there's a ship hiding around, or isn't, and since your command was to blast away to try to flush out a ship out of hiding, then everything that isn't clearly an ally (aka other party members) will count as an enemy (although the mercy trick would work if there was anything living left, but there isn't).

And no, there was no big lot of debris mentioned anywhere. Only tiny pieces of debris (which included the corpses), and after Mao's safety check, only one unknown object. Next time you may want to use less destructive methods of searching than shooting mecha-scale weaponry.

Besides you already have two prisioners waiting for interrogation, so not like you're spoiled for choice.

Not sure if the pod is meant to carry only the pilot or also his passengers + other stuff in the mecha within his light weight capacity.
A Mecha stored in a ship that goes down may be all right within the wreckage if it was attended and ruined if unattended object. Or they are automatically ejected.
There is no clause for the crew and other passengers within the ship getting a pod if it gets destroyed, which may well mean that anyone, of any level, within a battleship that is destroyed would automatically perish. Good thing the Protectora is one tough girl!

In case you forgot, this game's very first battle had your ship exploding and Bahamut flying out on their own, so that's how I've been rolling with. Should clarify it on the ship thread though. Also extra ejection pods on a ship for crew sounds nice. Freeloaders will demand extra arsenal.

[ketaro]

I always, safely, assumed that unless specifically mentioned a battleship does not have escape pods, much less ones that autoeject the pilot (especially when ships don't have pilots they have captains and an entire manned bridge). For reals, have you ever seen such kinds of escape pods in a spaceship in any Mecha anime? 

Mecha only get em for free cause it's easy to fit. For it to reasonably work on a battleship you need the entire bridge rigged to autoeject upon destruction. That looks silly, but it also looks really difficult to implement as a "standard" feature.

It could totes be a ship captain specific arsenal option tho, ya? The ships blowing up, the captains command chair turns into an escape pod and he escaped going down with his ship like the bloody coward that he is!!!!!

Going down with your ship oughta be a class feature

[Anomander]

So the entire mass of debris and corpses of a really big ship was condensed into a 5-mu-wide/high area, after it exploded, which unusually disperses stuff around.
You're the physics specialist, so if that makes sense to you then all right. If the area with junk was so condensed she could have then easily aimed at open space that the ship would have had to occupy, which was the idea.
Though I'll remember I can now use enemy-only area effects on objects she doesn't consider to be enemies next time we'll need to clear something in case there are invisible enemies. If they apply when I never intended them to they may as well be useful when we need them to. I don't mind changing the action if the way I meant it to be used is invalid, still.

Besides you already have two prisioners waiting for interrogation, so not like you're spoiled for choice.

Hugo could have taken care of any we'd find here. Mao isn't an expert in interrogations. She just asks questions that rely on actual willingness to give answers.
The big disappointment though is that at first it's only bits of junk in space and then after posting actions to attack through the empty bits in case there is something there suddenly are previously unmentioned corpses (which says more than bits of debris that could have been blasted off the ship after the bombardment). Though you maybe rolled our automatic spot checks for us on that one in secret. In which case kudos. If she had spotted the corpses before attacking things would have been different, given her obsession to get limbs and bits to interrogate.

I can help with the maps from then on, and ask you for every measurements and distances that the party can see. Keeping track of where everything was got difficult for this fight. I'd confirm the map with you round to round to make sure it's accurate.

Something I just noticed and am not sure if it was intentional, the arsenal accessories for radars include a perception mode and damage. Are the perceptions that aren't already specifying that they depend on line of effect (such as blindsense and darkvision) bypassing line of effect? Or perhaps they work as emanation auras, going around obstacles? It is an important detail since otherwise some of them, like sensing things that aren't touching the ground then essentially just become a limited blindsense that isn't called blindsense. As for the extra damage, it mentions that it does not stack with multiple picks of the radar accessory that grants it (two level V radars won't stack) but that mention is currently only specific to multiple selections of the same radar pick, rather than all radar accessories. So a Radar V's extra damage would stack with the extra damage of a Radar IV, which probably isn't the intent.

Another question about the Fighter transformation upgrade:

If it could already fly that (base) speed increases by 1,5 and becomes perfect maneuverability.

As is it either means that you increase the speed by 1.5 its value (30-mu becomes 75-mu) or by 1.5-mu (30-mu becomes 31.5 mu). Was this meant to be a straight multiplier (30 mu becomes 45 mu) rather than an addition?

About the Ancient Sensor upgrade: -Creatures of a specific alignment chosen when this upgrade is gained. Can be taken multiple times for different alignments.
By specific alignment, do you intend this to be a given alignment axis (Good, Evil, Chaotic, Lawful and one of the two neutrals) or an alignment such as Chaotic Good?

[Raineh Daze]

Unrelated to actual mechanics, wouldn't the Yatagarasu be the natural choice for giving characters a lift? That cockpit is never going to have space concerns.

[Anomander]

I do wonder how many mechas could fit in there, if a mecha that isn't a ship could store other mechas.

[SorO_Lost]

Another question about the Fighter transformation upgrade:

If it could already fly that (base) speed increases by 1,5 and becomes perfect maneuverability.

As is it either means that you increase the speed by 1.5 its value (30-mu becomes 75-mu) or by 1.5-mu (30-mu becomes 31.5 mu). Was this meant to be a straight multiplier (30 mu becomes 45 mu) rather than an addition?

It's a comma not a period so it's increased by 1.

Then "5 and becomes perfect maneuverability" is actually a polymorph effect that changes Fiveand into Perfectmaneuverability.

[Kuroimaken]

Unrelated to actual mechanics, wouldn't the Yatagarasu be the natural choice for giving characters a lift? That cockpit is never going to have space concerns.

If they don't mind being potentially squeezed by Ammy shifting in her seat, sure. 

[ketaro]

Anomander. 1.5 times the value of 30 is 45 not 75. You're just nitpicking at Os' grammar now.

[Anomander]

An actual increase of 1.5-mu (30-mu becomes 31.5 mu) is absurd, but an actual increase of 1.5 times the base speed vs increasing the speed to 1.5 its value are both very possible. I thought I'd finally use that transformation but noticed it specifically affects the base speed, which likely implies it applies before the Agility speed increases and all.
So exactly how the Fighter transformation is intended to affects the flight speed is asked before I default with the sum om the base speed alone.

Anomander. 1.5 times the value of 30 is 45 not 75.

Yes. That's what I said. It specifies an increase by 1.5 (which is 45). 30 + 45 = 75.

You're just nitpicking at Os' grammar now.

When I wrote my sheet I applied the multiplier to the entire speed, which is inferior to the sum. Then saw it was applying to the base speed, and then that it was an addition instead of a straight multiplier.
I rely a lot on what is written, which should also be a concern to anyone writing handbooks. Grammar errors (if there is even one) that affect the math are rather important.
Which is why I'm just double checking his intent for the Fighter's speed to make sure everything is fine. Not trying to prove anything or complain; just making sure.
For example, Amaterasu also read it and multiplied the speed change as a multiplier on the entire speed. Although that isn't what the text says, it was both our first understanding when we read the text. If it is indeed meant to be an addition on the base speed alone before the other increases, then our Fighter forms were much faster than they should have been all along. If it is meant to apply to the entire speed, then they were slower than they should have been,

[Raineh Daze]

I do wonder how many mechas could fit in there, if a mecha that isn't a ship could store other mechas.

Well, she's Colossal, so one medium-sized mecha if she goes in at human size. But that would be out of her carrying capacity. :T

Unrelated to actual mechanics, wouldn't the Yatagarasu be the natural choice for giving characters a lift? That cockpit is never going to have space concerns.

If they don't mind being potentially squeezed by Ammy shifting in her seat, sure. 

Deceptively Innocent Form!

I choose to believe she takes one of those approaches to piloting that mostly involves standing around in the cockpit looking badass, not button-mashing the world's least intuitive interface.

[Kuroimaken]

So the Gurren Lagann style of piloting, huh?

[SorO_Lost]

Maybe, but that's the least useful way to pilot anything realistically.

Ideally the mech maps out your movements so all the muscles in your limbs are already controlling various servos. You could claim the core body has no bendable position to automatically adjusts per an AI and map some controls to various muscles (twice left peck to turn missiles on, twice twice for off!) but that'd be impossible to do if your using those muscles to stand in your cockpit trying to look cool where no one can see you. Besides, it's still way more impractical than being able to mash buttons with your hand. Plus you don't even need to release the hand control to do that, if your mech makes ninja hand signs while you type in the commend to shoot a stream of fire it totally blends in.

[ketaro]

Maybe, but that's the least useful way to pilot anything realistically.

Ideally the mech maps out your movements so all the muscles in your limbs are already controlling various servos. You could claim the core body has no bendable position to automatically adjusts per an AI and map some controls to various muscles (twice left peck to turn missiles on, twice twice for off!) but that'd be impossible to do if your using those muscles to stand in your cockpit trying to look cool where no one can see you. Besides, it's still way more impractical than being able to mash buttons with your hand. Plus you don't even need to release the hand control to do that, if your mech makes ninja hand signs while you type in the commend to shoot a stream of fire it totally blends in.

Ginga Bishounen.

The best way to pilot a mecha ever invented.

[Kuroimaken]

Dude, have you learned nothing? Super Robots work on voice commands.

[Raineh Daze]

Maybe, but that's the least useful way to pilot anything realistically.

Ideally the mech maps out your movements so all the muscles in your limbs are already controlling various servos. You could claim the core body has no bendable position to automatically adjusts per an AI and map some controls to various muscles (twice left peck to turn missiles on, twice twice for off!) but that'd be impossible to do if your using those muscles to stand in your cockpit trying to look cool where no one can see you. Besides, it's still way more impractical than being able to mash buttons with your hand. Plus you don't even need to release the hand control to do that, if your mech makes ninja hand signs while you type in the commend to shoot a stream of fire it totally blends in.

To quote Getter Robo Armageddon: "So much for the laws of physics!"

[oslecamo]

So the entire mass of debris and corpses of a really big ship was condensed into a 5-mu-wide/high area, after it exploded, which unusually disperses stuff around.
You're the physics specialist, so if that makes sense to you then all right. If the area with junk was so condensed she could have then easily aimed at open space that the ship would have had to occupy, which was the idea.

In pyshics terms, for a beam of such intensity there would be quite a bit of energy dispersed all around. Not a problem for properly shielded machines, a big problem for fragile frozen corpses.

Though I'll remember I can now use enemy-only area effects on objects she doesn't consider to be enemies next time we'll need to clear something in case there are invisible enemies. If they apply when I never intended them to they may as well be useful when we need them to.

Sure, as long as you don't mind the risk of burning more valuable stuff you can't properly spot at the moment.

I don't mind changing the action if the way I meant it to be used is invalid, still.

Game's delayed enough as it is, moving on.

Besides you already have two prisioners waiting for interrogation, so not like you're spoiled for choice.

Hugo could have taken care of any we'd find here. Mao isn't an expert in interrogations. She just asks questions that rely on actual willingness to give answers.
The big disappointment though is that at first it's only bits of junk in space and then after posting actions to attack through the empty bits in case there is something there suddenly are previously unmentioned corpses (which says more than bits of debris that could have been blasted off the ship after the bombardment). Though you maybe rolled our automatic spot checks for us on that one in secret. In which case kudos. If she had spotted the corpses before attacking things would have been different, given her obsession to get limbs and bits to interrogate.

I can help with the maps from then on, and ask you for every measurements and distances that the party can see. Keeping track of where everything was got difficult for this fight. I'd confirm the map with you round to round to make sure it's accurate.

Making detailed pretty maps and uploading them is a lot of extra work, in particular when everybody has big mobility. I'm sticking with word only updates for the time being.

Something I just noticed and am not sure if it was intentional, the arsenal accessories for radars include a perception mode and damage. Are the perceptions that aren't already specifying that they depend on line of effect (such as blindsense and darkvision) bypassing line of effect? Or perhaps they work as emanation auras, going around obstacles? It is an important detail since otherwise some of them, like sensing things that aren't touching the ground then essentially just become a limited blindsense that isn't called blindsense. As for the extra damage, it mentions that it does not stack with multiple picks of the radar accessory that grants it (two level V radars won't stack) but that mention is currently only specific to multiple selections of the same radar pick, rather than all radar accessories. So a Radar V's extra damage would stack with the extra damage of a Radar IV, which probably isn't the intent.

Meh, if people want to spend multiple acessory slots on diminishing returns for extra damage, I'll allow it.

Another question about the Fighter transformation upgrade:

If it could already fly that (base) speed increases by 1,5 and becomes perfect maneuverability.

As is it either means that you increase the speed by 1.5 its value (30-mu becomes 75-mu) or by 1.5-mu (30-mu becomes 31.5 mu). Was this meant to be a straight multiplier (30 mu becomes 45 mu) rather than an addition?

Multiplier.

About the Ancient Sensor upgrade: -Creatures of a specific alignment chosen when this upgrade is gained. Can be taken multiple times for different alignments.
By specific alignment, do you intend this to be a given alignment axis (Good, Evil, Chaotic, Lawful and one of the two neutrals) or an alignment such as Chaotic Good?

[oslecamo]

I always, safely, assumed that unless specifically mentioned a battleship does not have escape pods, much less ones that autoeject the pilot (especially when ships don't have pilots they have captains and an entire manned bridge). For reals, have you ever seen such kinds of escape pods in a spaceship in any Mecha anime? 

Mecha only get em for free cause it's easy to fit. For it to reasonably work on a battleship you need the entire bridge rigged to autoeject upon destruction. That looks silly, but it also looks really difficult to implement as a "standard" feature.

It could totes be a ship captain specific arsenal option tho, ya? The ships blowing up, the captains command chair turns into an escape pod and he escaped going down with his ship like the bloody coward that he is!!!!!

Going down with your ship oughta be a class feature

Ok, battleships now have a special clause for not having escape pod plus added a new Extra Escape Pods arsenal option.

[Anomander]

Sounds good!
For the alignment detection it then cannot be used to detect evil since the maximum of senses active at once is limited to two and there are three evil alignments. Unless the user keeps switching them around. Though maybe that was intentional.

Sure, as long as you don't mind the risk of burning more valuable stuff you can't properly spot at the moment.

For sure!  I'll actually be counting on it from now on.

Making detailed pretty maps and uploading them is a lot of extra work, in particular when everybody has big mobility. I'm sticking with word only updates for the time being.

It is all good. I'm pretty fast on photoshop. Once I've got the dimensions of the place it is pretty easy to work. Especially considering the dimensions have to be done anyway. Prettiness is not something I bother with when the main purpose is to serve as a reference.