Author Topic: Skill Feats  (Read 17876 times)

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2012, 08:46:33 PM »
I was worried that Skill Focus UMD would be the obvious choice, but I'm not sure I'm too worried about it being a warlock shtick so much. They still get it for free and you have to buy Skill Focus with a feat. I'm hoping that feats are good enough that you'll have to debate on whether or not you want to blow on on this.

Also, I know it's not in this thread, so I can't slight you for not knowing, but I'm wondering if UMD will be somewhat less useful with the new crafting and magic item rules I want to use.
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2012, 09:48:06 AM »
I'm considering beefing up a few of these feats to give fighters Nice Things. I'm not sure if I'm going too far, or not. I'll highlight changes/additions in red for easier comparison.

(Do note that I'm currently using a house-rule that grants one of these feats for free to "non-casters" at 1st level and every 5 levels. This works by adding all of your class levels that don't advance casting in a 9-level casting class. So, "non-casters" don't need to spend feat slots to get a handful of these.)


Acrobatic [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Jump and Tumble.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Jump checks and Tumble checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You may treat falls as though they were ten feet shorter per four ranks you have in Jump or Tumble for purposes of taking damage.
    You may add one foot to the horizontal distance of any jump you make per each rank you have in Jump or Tumble (use the higher of the two, not the total). You may add one foot to the vertical distance of any jump you make per four ranks you have in Jump or Tumble (use the higher of the two, not the total).
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Jump, You gain a fly speed equal to your base land speed for one round with average maneuverability. You must start your flight from a surface capable of supporting your weight.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Tumble, you do not take damage while falling.
    If you have at least 13 ranks in Jump and Tumble, you gain a fly speed equal to your base land speed with good maneuverability (no longer limited to one round).



Animal Affinity [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Handle Animal and Ride.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Handle Animal checks and Ride checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You may speak with animals and magical beasts as if you shared a language. This does not modify the creature’s initial attitude toward you, but friendly and helpful creatures will generally answer questions to the best of their knowledge and intelligence.
    You may attempt to influence animals and magical beasts as though they were affected by Charm Person as an extraordinary ability. The DC of this ability is 10 + 1/2 your Hit Dice + your Charisma modifier. Any creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again for 24 hours and its attitude shifts one step closer to hostile.


Athletic [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Climb and Swim.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Climb checks and Swim checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You gain a climb speed and a swim speed equal to half your base land speed. You may use the run option while swimming.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Climb, your climb speed increases to your base land speed.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Swim, your swim speed increases to your base land speed, and you can breath under water.

    If you already have a climb or swim speed, that speed increases by ten feet.


Deceitful [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Disguise and Forgery.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Disguise checks and Forgery checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You may apply a disguise as a full-round action, providing you have the necessary materials on hand.
    You may forge a simple document as a full-round action and a complex document in 1d4 rounds.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Disguise, magical effects to determine your alignment or read your thoughts do not automatically succeed. The caster must beat your Disguise check with either a Sense Motive check or caster level check for the effect to work.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Forgery, you gain the following spells-like abilities at will, but with a range of "touch": Arcane Mark, Erase, and Explosive Runes. Each use requires special inks that cost 50gp per level of the spell. Explosive Runes may only be used once per object.



Diligent [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Appraise and Decipher Script.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Appraise checks and Decipher Script checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    If you study an item for at least a minute, you can determine if it is magical. If it is, you may also learn the properties it as though you cast Identify. This is an extraordinary ability.
    Any time you sense an illusion (see, hear, touch, etc), you make an Appraise check as a free action to disbelieve the illusion (against the normal DC of the effect). This is in addition to the save you get for interacting with it. This includes illusions that normally hide things from your senses, such as Invisibility. This will likely happen before the player is aware of the illusion, so the DM may have to make the check or ask the player to make it.


Investigator [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Gather Information and Search.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Gather Information checks and Search checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    After studying a 10 by 10 foot area for 10 minutes, you gain the benefits of the Stone Tell spell as an extraordinary ability. This ability functions regardless of if the area contains any stones or not and lasts one minute per character level.
    You can detect magical auras and poisons as if using Detect Magic or Detect Poison at will. This is an extraordinary ability.


Magical Aptitude [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Spellcraft and Use Magic Device.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Spellcraft checks and Use Magic Device checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You may use Detect Magic and one other 0-level spell (subject to the DM’s approval) at will as a spell-like ability. Your caster level is equal to your character level for these abilities.
    Every three levels, you learn a new 0-level spell-like ability.


Self-Sufficient [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Heal and Survival.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Heal checks and Survival checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    As an immediate action, you may heal a number of hit points equal to your total ranks between Heal and Survival. You may only heal yourself this way. You may do this once per day for every four ranks you have in total between Heal and Survival.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Heal, you may heal others with this ability as well, so long as they are close enough for you to touch them.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Survival, you gain Fast Healing at a rate of 1 hit point per four ranks you have in Survival.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 01:54:22 PM by RobbyPants »
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Offline dman11235

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2012, 12:10:52 PM »
I'll go through part by part.

Acrobatic: I think you went, well, a good bit too far.  It's one feat, and two skills at level 10 for flight with good maneuverability.  The one round part is probably enough, and I don't think that one feat is enough of a cost for (ex) flight, especially good maneuverability.  At least you said "base speed" instead of "speed".  Keep in mind that you're eliminating the need for the skills that you're supporting by granting flight.  A better thing to do would be use the skills themselves to determine the quality of the flight, but that might have to be done in the skills themselves, instead.

Animal Affinity: This is granting, for the cost of a feat, at will Charm Monster on animals/magical beasts.  Yeah, I think that might be a bit overpowered....  Consider having a sort of Diplomacy type effect, and allow a scaling ability to the charming.  And don't call it charming.  The skill check would indicate the success.  And i like Burlew's diplomacy rules, btw.  For the first part, you should word it better I think.  Although, this is only a very open-ended.....loose suggestion, consider mentioning that they act like any creature of their disposition (friendly, hostile, whatever), instead of mentioning that friendlies answer more readily.

Athletic: I think this might be good, but a couple thoughts: first, you might want to mention the increased climb/swim speed in the red text area, so having an increased speed initially doesn't mean nothing.  Have the same increase for the red text area, essentially, so you still get the bonus.  Also, you might want a scaling thing, but this is a very loose suggestion: +5' speed at every so often ranks.  A large gap between boosts, around 5-10 ranks.

Deceitful: might be a bit too powerful with the at-will SLAs.  But since they are low-level and very specialized, it might be okay.  I have problems with the skills themselves, but that's something else, and not with your feats, which look great.  However, again, you might need a scaling thing.  Otherwise, only 8 ranks in each is necessary.  Illusory Script is a bit powerful for an at-will though.

Diligent: I'm not sure what you get out of this.  Is it just a second save?  But you don't have to interact with it (though....how do you know it's there if you don't interact with it?)?  If so, I'm not really sure if it's good enough.  You might want to have a check involved in reading a magical aura and stuff for the first part.  You may have something else too: use a skill check to disbelieve the illusion.  Just a loose suggestion though.

Investigator: I think the only complaint I have here is the same one: no scaling other than the normal skill.  And like Diligent and Deceitful, I don't like the skills, but that's not your fault.

Magical Aptitude: I think I like this.  You might want to give this to Sorcerers at level 1, but that's just because I tend to do something like this already with casters.  Cantrips at /will.

Self-Sufficient: I think you should change....well, dang it, I'm tainted by bauglir's Heal skill.  I use his, since it's awesome, and it lets you heal based on your check, good enough check lets you heal as an immediate action.  Trying to ignore that, I think you don't go quite far enough.  The Survival red text is awesome, and i think the perfect rate.  The Heal red text doesn't go far enough.  you might want to say "for every 4 ranks beyond you can affect an additional person, but only if you can touch all in the same round", and you might want to make it a swift action or move, or standard.  The more pressing issue is the /day nature.  I think it shouldn't be limited to daily uses, and should be a bit more encounter based.  or at will.  I just hate /days.
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2012, 01:50:56 PM »
I'll go through part by part.
Thanks. Just a note up front: the point of the feats was mostly to give out the "nice things" that caster's don't get in an easy fashion, rather than to rewrite the skills themselves. This is admittedly a quick-and-dirty approach. I'm not aiming at a perfect fix, so much as a way to gain these abilities as a non-caster. So, while a lot of these things could go directly into skills, I'm going to put them in feats for simplicities sake at this point. I did tie a lot of the new abilities directly to ranks to encourage putting more into the skill. Also, again, non-casters get some of these feats for free in my house-rules. That being said...


Acrobatic: I think you went, well, a good bit too far.  It's one feat, and two skills at level 10 for flight with good maneuverability.  The one round part is probably enough, and I don't think that one feat is enough of a cost for (ex) flight, especially good maneuverability.  At least you said "base speed" instead of "speed".  Keep in mind that you're eliminating the need for the skills that you're supporting by granting flight.  A better thing to do would be use the skills themselves to determine the quality of the flight, but that might have to be done in the skills themselves, instead.
What if I cut down on the maneuverability at 10th level, and added good in at something like 15th? Casters are flying by 5th level, and it'd be nice for non-casters to be able to compete with that.


Animal Affinity: This is granting, for the cost of a feat, at will Charm Monster on animals/magical beasts.  Yeah, I think that might be a bit overpowered....  Consider having a sort of Diplomacy type effect, and allow a scaling ability to the charming.  And don't call it charming.  The skill check would indicate the success.  And i like Burlew's diplomacy rules, btw.  For the first part, you should word it better I think.  Although, this is only a very open-ended.....loose suggestion, consider mentioning that they act like any creature of their disposition (friendly, hostile, whatever), instead of mentioning that friendlies answer more readily.
Well, it's at-will, but you can't spam one animal over and over due to the 24 hour clause, and it's a gamble: if they make the save, they become more hostile. Also, I forgot to put in that the save DC is Charisma-based.


Athletic: I think this might be good, but a couple thoughts: first, you might want to mention the increased climb/swim speed in the red text area, so having an increased speed initially doesn't mean nothing.  Have the same increase for the red text area, essentially, so you still get the bonus.  Also, you might want a scaling thing, but this is a very loose suggestion: +5' speed at every so often ranks.  A large gap between boosts, around 5-10 ranks.
Yeah, it might be good to reiterate that. I could go in five-foot increments, although I'm not sure what rate to use. +5' per two ranks? If I cap the rate at their speed, then this just seems like a lot of words to get the same effect, but with a smoother transition. If I uncap it, it could get pretty fast by mid levels. I may invoke laziness on this one.


Deceitful: might be a bit too powerful with the at-will SLAs.  But since they are low-level and very specialized, it might be okay.  I have problems with the skills themselves, but that's something else, and not with your feats, which look great.  However, again, you might need a scaling thing.  Otherwise, only 8 ranks in each is necessary.  Illusory Script is a bit powerful for an at-will though.
Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking about Illusionary Script. That's coming out.


Diligent: I'm not sure what you get out of this.  Is it just a second save?  But you don't have to interact with it (though....how do you know it's there if you don't interact with it?)?  If so, I'm not really sure if it's good enough.  You might want to have a check involved in reading a magical aura and stuff for the first part.  You may have something else too: use a skill check to disbelieve the illusion.  Just a loose suggestion though.
Well, it's an additional save before you even know you're dealing with an illusion. The DM would likely have to make the check in secret or ask the player for it (and hope they don't metagame) before the player knew what was going on. I like the Skill suggestion, but it seems odd to make an Appraise check for this... or does it? Maybe I will just go with that.


Investigator: I think the only complaint I have here is the same one: no scaling other than the normal skill.  And like Diligent and Deceitful, I don't like the skills, but that's not your fault.
I'm not sure what else to add. Perhaps Detect <alignment> spells? I don't have any good ideas on scaling for this.


Magical Aptitude: I think I like this.  You might want to give this to Sorcerers at level 1, but that's just because I tend to do something like this already with casters.  Cantrips at /will.
Actually, I'm using at-will cantrips/orisons in my game, too. This is primiarliy to add a few things to a caster's list (since you can pull from any list) or for non-casters to get a few spells.


Self-Sufficient: I think you should change....well, dang it, I'm tainted by bauglir's Heal skill.  I use his, since it's awesome, and it lets you heal based on your check, good enough check lets you heal as an immediate action.  Trying to ignore that, I think you don't go quite far enough.  The Survival red text is awesome, and i think the perfect rate.  The Heal red text doesn't go far enough.  you might want to say "for every 4 ranks beyond you can affect an additional person, but only if you can touch all in the same round", and you might want to make it a swift action or move, or standard.  The more pressing issue is the /day nature.  I think it shouldn't be limited to daily uses, and should be a bit more encounter based.  or at will.  I just hate /days.
I may re-do this one entirely. I'll probably leave Survival alone (possibly granting FH:1 at four ranks), but I'll want to re-do Heal. I'll have to look at the version you mentioned. Do you have a link? I redid the Heal skill a bit too, but probably not as drastically as his version. I could possibly turn this into some sort of touch-ranged Iron Heart Surge (but better defined in what it can and cannot affect).
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Offline dman11235

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2012, 05:19:55 PM »
Yeah, I realize that.  It's why I had the disclaimer, but was reviewing from the point of view of that not being the case.

Quote
What if I cut down on the maneuverability at 10th level, and added good in at something like 15th? Casters are flying by 5th level, and it'd be nice for non-casters to be able to compete with that.

I'm aware that casters can fly at level 5, but by granting people flight like this, you are just eliminating the need for the Climb and Jump skills.  One of which you are using to grant flight, but more than 13 ranks in it won't matter.  This gives it the same problem as Tumble does in vanilla, but at a smaller magnitude (you only need 1 rank in Tumble, vs 13 here).  If you somehow made it scale with ranks, then it would be fine, but I'm not sure how to do that.  If you're okay with it not scaling infinitely, then I'd be fine with it being Average at 10 and Good at 15.  If you're like me, and not okay with a set cut off, then something will need to happen to allow it to scale further.  Maybe make a check every round to fly?  And getting hit adds to the DC?  Also note, your first part of the feat is entirely negated by flight as well.

Quote
Well, it's at-will, but you can't spam one animal over and over due to the 24 hour clause, and it's a gamble: if they make the save, they become more hostile. Also, I forgot to put in that the save DC is Charisma-based.

Right, but it's still /will Charming.  Just get a high Cha, and go around Charming a bunch of bears to follow you and maul everything.  Or something.  Point is, it's easily abused.  Maybe make it take a bit more time, and base it off of a skill check?  That way the skill comes to the foreground again?  Oh, and limit it to things with Int =/<2.

Quote
Yeah, it might be good to reiterate that. I could go in five-foot increments, although I'm not sure what rate to use. +5' per two ranks? If I cap the rate at their speed, then this just seems like a lot of words to get the same effect, but with a smoother transition. If I uncap it, it could get pretty fast by mid levels. I may invoke laziness on this one.

No, I meant the base land speed increases by 5' every few ranks.  The climb/swim speeds are still full base land speed at that level, then the first suggestion was have it also say "+10' if you already have a climb or swim speed", even when it goes to full base land speed.

Quote
Well, it's an additional save before you even know you're dealing with an illusion. The DM would likely have to make the check in secret or ask the player for it (and hope they don't metagame) before the player knew what was going on. I like the Skill suggestion, but it seems odd to make an Appraise check for this... or does it? Maybe I will just go with that.

Okay, that should be good.  As for appraise: appraise the object that's illusory.  An unconscious appraisal.

Quote
I'm not sure what else to add. Perhaps Detect <alignment> spells? I don't have any good ideas on scaling for this.

Yeah, I don't know either.  However, you could add something about detecting thoughts/alignment/whatever.  An (ex) Detect Alignment and Detect Thoughts (surface) and Detect Intent?

Quote
I may re-do this one entirely. I'll probably leave Survival alone (possibly granting FH:1 at four ranks), but I'll want to re-do Heal. I'll have to look at the version you mentioned. Do you have a link? I redid the Heal skill a bit too, but probably not as drastically as his version. I could possibly turn this into some sort of touch-ranged Iron Heart Surge (but better defined in what it can and cannot affect).

They still work together.  I mean, they do similar things, so why not?  I don't have a link to bauglir's but it's on these boards.  It ended up being something like you declare a DC, and that determines the amount of time it takes, then you roll and if you succeed you heal based on the result, and it scales exponentially.  So a DC 15 check would be an hour to heal 1d8, and a DC 20 would be a half hour to heal 3d8, and a DC 40 check would be a swift action to heal 20d8 or something.  I can't remember the numbers.  pm him for the link, he should have it.
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #45 on: October 25, 2012, 08:23:07 AM »
I'm aware that casters can fly at level 5, but by granting people flight like this, you are just eliminating the need for the Climb and Jump skills.  One of which you are using to grant flight, but more than 13 ranks in it won't matter.  This gives it the same problem as Tumble does in vanilla, but at a smaller magnitude (you only need 1 rank in Tumble, vs 13 here).  If you somehow made it scale with ranks, then it would be fine, but I'm not sure how to do that.  If you're okay with it not scaling infinitely, then I'd be fine with it being Average at 10 and Good at 15.  If you're like me, and not okay with a set cut off, then something will need to happen to allow it to scale further.  Maybe make a check every round to fly?  And getting hit adds to the DC?  Also note, your first part of the feat is entirely negated by flight as well.
Well, I know it's killing the skills, but I'm not that super worried about it. Really, I see skills in 3E as a somewhat unworkable system past low levels, which is why I've been sort of tacking this kludge on top.

That being said, how about I scale rounds of flight based on Jump ranks. Something like this: When you have 8 ranks in Jump, you gain a flight with a speed equal to your base speed at average maneuverability for one round. You must start your flight from a surface capable of supporting your weight. You may use this ability as many times as you want, but only one round at a time, starting from a proper surface. For every two ranks beyond your 8th, you increase the duration of your flight by one round.
    If you have 8 ranks in Tumble, you may gain the benefits of the Air Walk spell as an extraordinary ability for one round, providing you start your movement from a surface that can support your weight. For every two ranks you have in Tumble beyond the 8th, you may increase this duration by one round. You may use this ability as many times as you want, but only one round at a time, starting from a proper surface.
    If you have at least 18 ranks in both Jump and Tumble, you gain a fly speed equal to your land speed with good maneuverability.



Right, but it's still /will Charming.  Just get a high Cha, and go around Charming a bunch of bears to follow you and maul everything.  Or something.  Point is, it's easily abused.  Maybe make it take a bit more time, and base it off of a skill check?  That way the skill comes to the foreground again?  Oh, and limit it to things with Int =/<2.
First of all, very good catch on the Int stipulation. I forgot that magical beasts will frequently exceed that. As for the at-will charming part, I think you're right, and I'm wondering how to balance it. The original version just had "speak with them as a common language", which I thought was a bit too weak. It's probably too much, by my Negotiator feat on the front page has at-will Suggestion (with the same stipulations of not working for 24 hours if the target saves, and the target's attitude shifts one closer to hostile).

That being said, I'm looking for way to curb abuse. One option could be to remove the "charm animal" reference and replace it with "makes the target friendly". This effectively removes the opposed Cha check to make it do things it otherwise wouldn't. Otherwise, I could add in a stipulation that if you fail the opposed Cha check, the effect is lost, and the animal resumes its original attitude, shifted one step closer to hostile. This would prevent the PC from trying to make the animals to things they don't want to (Dominating them) too often, and would really just be making them "friendly". Of course, even with Burlew's rules, it's not that hard to shift someone from friendly to helpful...


No, I meant the base land speed increases by 5' every few ranks.  The climb/swim speeds are still full base land speed at that level, then the first suggestion was have it also say "+10' if you already have a climb or swim speed", even when it goes to full base land speed.
So basically, as I have it (with the +10 clause put at the end so it functions regardless), and on top of that increase your actual base land speed based on ranks? If so, I like the idea. It could be useful as hell. I saw Prime suggest in the other thread yesterday to do ranks rounded down to 5', which is basically +5' for every 5 ranks you have. You're looking at a cap of +20' at 17th level, which really isn't a big deal at all.


Yeah, I don't know either.  However, you could add something about detecting thoughts/alignment/whatever.  An (ex) Detect Alignment and Detect Thoughts (surface) and Detect Intent?
Is Detect Intent a non-core spell, or is that just a vague concept you're using for the ability? I think it's potentially a good idea. It could probably start out as something like having a conversation for one minute, to analyzing the guy for a standard action with more ranks in Gather Info.


They still work together.  I mean, they do similar things, so why not?  I don't have a link to bauglir's but it's on these boards.  It ended up being something like you declare a DC, and that determines the amount of time it takes, then you roll and if you succeed you heal based on the result, and it scales exponentially.  So a DC 15 check would be an hour to heal 1d8, and a DC 20 would be a half hour to heal 3d8, and a DC 40 check would be a swift action to heal 20d8 or something.  I can't remember the numbers.  pm him for the link, he should have it.
Okay, so maybe Survival grants Fast Healing at the rate described earlier. As for Heal, we'll assume I'm using my house-rules for Heal, and this feat will just let you use them faster. So, something like:
  • 2 Ranks: Remove status affliction as a full-round action.
  • 5 Ranks: Remove status affliction as a standard action.
  • 8 Ranks: Stabilize or heal non-lethal damage as a swift action.
  • 13 Ranks: Stabilize or heal non-lethal as an immediate action. Remove status afflictions from yourself as an immediate action.
I feel that could be tweaked in either direction, but how do you feel about it?

Heh. I noticed you plugged Bauglir's Heal fix in that thread, and I've still been too lazy to look it up...  :smirk
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 08:24:45 AM by RobbyPants »
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Offline dman11235

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #46 on: October 25, 2012, 09:29:03 AM »
Well, as I said, if you're not worried about killing the skills, thn it's fine to just have flight eventually.  I think having it scale as much as this new one might be a good idea though, since it still gives some benefit to putting more skill points into the skills.  And I think you have the scaling pretty good here, but maybe say at 23 ranks the maneuverability becomes Perfect.  Just one more bit of oomph, and finishes off at level 20.  Good is usually good enough, but in case people want to go to 20 with the skills they still get some benefit.

Quote
That being said, I'm looking for way to curb abuse. One option could be to remove the "charm animal" reference and replace it with "makes the target friendly". This effectively removes the opposed Cha check to make it do things it otherwise wouldn't. Otherwise, I could add in a stipulation that if you fail the opposed Cha check, the effect is lost, and the animal resumes its original attitude, shifted one step closer to hostile. This would prevent the PC from trying to make the animals to things they don't want to (Dominating them) too often, and would really just be making them "friendly". Of course, even with Burlew's rules, it's not that hard to shift someone from friendly to helpful...

Right, but I think it might be a step in the right direction.  Keep in mind that this is a relatively new area for a rule.  The way I think it would be phrased is that "this feat allows you to make Handle Animal checks with Animals and Magical Beasts with int 2 or less as if they were Diplomacy checks with intelligent creatures."  This also eliminates the 24-hour waiting period, but you could say that the beasts revert to the original attitude after 24 hours if you wanted.

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So basically, as I have it (with the +10 clause put at the end so it functions regardless), and on top of that increase your actual base land speed based on ranks? If so, I like the idea. It could be useful as hell. I saw Prime suggest in the other thread yesterday to do ranks rounded down to 5', which is basically +5' for every 5 ranks you have. You're looking at a cap of +20' at 17th level, which really isn't a big deal at all.

Yeah, that's basically it.  Make sure it increases your base land speed, not land speed.  That way it applies to all effects that reference your base land speed.

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Is Detect Intent a non-core spell, or is that just a vague concept you're using for the ability? I think it's potentially a good idea. It could probably start out as something like having a conversation for one minute, to analyzing the guy for a standard action with more ranks in Gather Info.

The second one.  Although I could have sworn there was a spell that does that.  Isn't there a spell that lets you tell if something's hostile?  And yeah, those are good ideas.

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Okay, so maybe Survival grants Fast Healing at the rate described earlier. As for Heal, we'll assume I'm using my house-rules for Heal, and this feat will just let you use them faster. So, something like:

    2 Ranks: Remove status affliction as a full-round action.
    5 Ranks: Remove status affliction as a standard action.
    8 Ranks: Stabilize or heal non-lethal damage as a swift action.
    13 Ranks: Stabilize or heal non-lethal as an immediate action. Remove status afflictions from yourself as an immediate action.

I feel that could be tweaked in either direction, but how do you feel about it?

Heh. I noticed you plugged Bauglir's Heal fix in that thread, and I've still been too lazy to look it up...  :smirk

That might work, but class is starting.  So I have to cut this short....
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #47 on: October 26, 2012, 08:18:57 AM »
Okay, I'll repost these with the recent batch of changes:

Acrobatic [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Jump and Tumble.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Jump checks and Tumble checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You may treat falls as though they were ten feet shorter per two ranks you have in Tumble for purposes of taking damage.
    When jumping, you do not double the DC if you don't have a 20' running start. If you do take a running start, increase the distance of the jump by 50%. For example, normally, with a running start, a DC 20 horizontal jump clears 20'. With this feat, it would clear 30'.
    When you have 8 ranks in Jump, you gain a flight with a speed equal to your base speed at average maneuverability for one round. You must start your flight from a surface capable of supporting your weight. You may use this ability as many times as you want, but only one round at a time, starting from a proper surface. For every two ranks beyond your 8th, you increase the duration of your flight by one round.
    If you have 8 ranks in Tumble, you may gain the benefits of the Air Walk spell as an extraordinary ability for one round, providing you start your movement from a surface that can support your weight. For every two ranks you have in Tumble beyond the 8th, you may increase this duration by one round. You may use this ability as many times as you want, but only one round at a time, starting from a proper surface.
    If you have at least 18 ranks in both Jump and Tumble, you gain a fly speed equal to your land speed with good maneuverability.
    If you have at least 23 ranks in both Jump and Tumble, you gain a fly speed equal to your land speed with perfect maneuverability.
   

Animal Affinity [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Handle Animal and Ride.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Handle Animal checks and Ride checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You may speak with animals and magical beasts as if you shared a language. This does not modify the creature’s initial attitude toward you, but friendly and helpful creatures will generally answer questions to the best of their knowledge and intelligence.
    You may attempt to improve the attitude of animals and magical beasts to "friendly" as an extraordinary ability if you make a Handle Animal check opposed by either the creature's Sense Motive or d20 + the creature's Hit Dice + its Wisdom modifier. Any creature that wins the check cannot be affected again for 24 hours and its attitude shifts one step closer to hostile. You may only affect a creature if it's Intelligence score is lower than three.


Athletic [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Climb and Swim.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Climb checks and Swim checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You gain a climb speed and a swim speed equal to half your base land speed. You may use the run option while swimming.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Climb, your climb speed increases to your base land speed.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Swim, your swim speed increases to your base land speed, and you can breath under water.
    If you already have a climb or swim speed, that speed increases by ten feet.
    Your base land speed increases by five feet for every five ranks you have in total between Climb and Swim.


Deceitful [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Disguise and Forgery.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Disguise checks and Forgery checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You may apply a disguise as a full-round action, providing you have the necessary materials on hand.
    You may forge a simple document as a full-round action and a complex document in 1d4 rounds.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Disguise, magical effects to determine your alignment or read your thoughts do not automatically succeed. The caster must beat your Disguise check with either a Sense Motive check or caster level check for the effect to work.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Forgery, you gain the following spells-like abilities at will, but with a range of "touch": Arcane Mark, Erase, and Explosive Runes. Each use requires special inks that cost 50gp per level of the spell. Explosive Runes may only be used once per object.


Diligent [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Appraise and Decipher Script.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Appraise checks and Decipher Script checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    If you study an item for at least a minute, you can determine if it is magical. If it is, you may also learn the properties it as though you cast Identify. This is an extraordinary ability.
    Any time you sense an illusion (see, hear, touch, etc), you make an Appraise check as a free action to disbelieve the illusion (against the normal DC of the effect). This is in addition to the save you get for interacting with it. This includes illusions that normally hide things from your senses, such as Invisibility. This will likely happen before the player is aware of the illusion, so the DM may have to make the check or ask the player to make it.


Investigator [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Gather Information and Search.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Gather Information checks and Search checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    After studying a 10 by 10 foot area for 10 minutes, you gain the benefits of the Stone Tell spell as an extraordinary ability. This ability functions regardless of if the area contains any stones or not and lasts one minute per character level.
    You can detect magical auras and poisons as if using Detect Magic or Detect Poison at will. This is an extraordinary ability.
    If you talk to a person for at least one minute, you may read their surface thoughts as the Detect Thoughts spell as an extraordinary ability. The DC of the saving throw is 10 + half your Hit Dice + your Charisma modifier. If the person succeeeds on their Will save, they cannot be affected by this ability again for 24 hours, and their attitude shifts one step closer to hostile.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Gather Information, you can attempt to detect hostile intent (not necessarily against you). You may either look for intent in a single person within 60' or in all people within 60'. To succeed, you must succeed at a Gather Information check opposed by the person's Bluff check. If checking against a group, use the lowest Bluff score among all hostile creatures in the area. Success indicates hostile intent, but not at whom the intent is directed, or even who has the intent if checking more than one person. For purposes of this ability, hostile intent includes any deliberate attempts or desires to bring harm to someone (physically, financially, politically, etc), but does not include things like grudges or animosity if the person doesn't plan to act on those feelings.


Magical Aptitude [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Spellcraft and Use Magic Device.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Spellcraft checks and Use Magic Device checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You may use Detect Magic and one other 0-level spell (subject to the DM’s approval) at will as a spell-like ability. Your caster level is equal to your character level for these abilities.
    Every three levels, you learn a new 0-level spell-like ability.


Self-Sufficient [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Heal and Survival.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Heal checks and Survival checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You gain Fast Healing at a rate of 1 hit point per four ranks you have in Survival.
    You may use the abilities of the Heal skill faster than normal, based on your ranks in Heal:
  • 2 Ranks: Remove Status Affliction as a full-round action.
  • 5 Ranks: Remove Status Affliction as a standard action.
  • 8 Ranks: Administer First Aid as a swift action.
  • 13 Ranks: Administer First Aid as an immediate action. Remove Status Afflictions from yourself as an immediate action.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 08:20:53 AM by RobbyPants »
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Offline dman11235

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #48 on: October 26, 2012, 10:52:29 AM »
Animal Affinity may need work, but this might just be me being careful.  New territory and all.  Adjustments to the way it works, if anything.  But it looks good, aside from my constant nagging suspicion that it's abusable.

Athletic, I'm not sure if you did this intentionally or not, but you doubled the speed boost that you said you would give them.  You said that you add the skill points together to determine the speed boost, rather than taking the largest.  So the max is now a +45 (23+23=46) by level 20, instead of the +20.  I don't think it will be a problem, just making sure you realize that you changed it.  Also, you may wish to clarify the 10' boost for already have a climb/swim speed.  It can be confused by thinking that it only applies to the full speed section, rather than both.

For Diligent, you may have to double the save DC for the appraise check, since skill checks climb much faster than save DCs.  Unless you want it to pretty much auto-disbelieve illusions by mid levels.

I don't think Investigator is good just yet.  That's the one that I have the most issue with, because of the Detect Intent part.  I think you should have it be a check opposed by the passive bluff check of the target (treat groups just like you did), and success indicates that you know the intent (not that they are hostile, because what if they aren't?).  However, also add that success by 5 or more gives more information about what they are hostile towards, maybe success by 10 or more gives everything possible about intent, maybe not.
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #49 on: October 26, 2012, 12:24:42 PM »
Animal Affinity may need work, but this might just be me being careful.  New territory and all.  Adjustments to the way it works, if anything.  But it looks good, aside from my constant nagging suspicion that it's abusable.
I know what you mean. It's these types of more open-ended feats that leave me unsure.


Athletic, I'm not sure if you did this intentionally or not, but you doubled the speed boost that you said you would give them.  You said that you add the skill points together to determine the speed boost, rather than taking the largest.  So the max is now a +45 (23+23=46) by level 20, instead of the +20.  I don't think it will be a problem, just making sure you realize that you changed it.  Also, you may wish to clarify the 10' boost for already have a climb/swim speed.  It can be confused by thinking that it only applies to the full speed section, rather than both.
It was intentional. I had that specific thought, and figured +45 at level 20 isn't a big deal at all. Even the +5 at first level and +10 at 2nd didn't bother me too much.


For Diligent, you may have to double the save DC for the appraise check, since skill checks climb much faster than save DCs.  Unless you want it to pretty much auto-disbelieve illusions by mid levels.
Yeah, I'm not sure about that. I could just have them roll a flat-out Will save, or even an Int-based Will save for the first passive check, but I'm not sure I like that, either. You're right about the auto-passing, though. Doubling the DC seems so dirty, though.


I don't think Investigator is good just yet.  That's the one that I have the most issue with, because of the Detect Intent part.  I think you should have it be a check opposed by the passive bluff check of the target (treat groups just like you did), and success indicates that you know the intent (not that they are hostile, because what if they aren't?).  However, also add that success by 5 or more gives more information about what they are hostile towards, maybe success by 10 or more gives everything possible about intent, maybe not.
Yeah, detect intent might still be too weak to be truly useful. Let me think about that. I want to keep it from being too wordy, but I don't want to make it crappy just for the sake of brevity.
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2012, 12:33:16 PM »
I added an explanation to Athletic. I was going to change Diligent to a save again, but I decided against it. This rewards someone for putting ranks in Appraise. If they're willing to pay for it, I'm fine with them getting near-immunity to illusions. I added a beat-by-ten clause to the detect intent part of Investigator (I'm not sure if it's worded well), and I added a detect alignment part in as well at 13 ranks.

With changes suggested earlier:


Athletic [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Climb and Swim.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Climb checks and Swim checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    You gain a climb speed and a swim speed equal to half your base land speed. You may use the run option while swimming.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Climb, your climb speed increases to your base land speed.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Swim, your swim speed increases to your base land speed, and you can breath under water.
    If you already have a climb or swim speed, that speed increases by ten feet.
    Your base land speed increases by five feet for every five ranks you have in total between Climb and Swim. This speed boost is used when calculating your climb and swim speed from your base land speed in this feat.


Investigator [General]
Prerequisite: A total of two ranks in Gather Information and Search.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on all Gather Information checks and Search checks and those skills are considered class skills for you each level.
    After studying a 10 by 10 foot area for 10 minutes, you gain the benefits of the Stone Tell spell as an extraordinary ability. This ability functions regardless of if the area contains any stones or not and lasts one minute per character level.
    You can detect magical auras and poisons as if using Detect Magic or Detect Poison at will. This is an extraordinary ability.
    If you talk to a person for at least one minute, you may read their surface thoughts as the Detect Thoughts spell as an extraordinary ability. The DC of the saving throw is 10 + half your Hit Dice + your Charisma modifier. If the person succeeeds on their Will save, they cannot be affected by this ability again for 24 hours, and their attitude shifts one step closer to hostile.
    If you have at least 8 ranks in Gather Information, you can attempt to detect hostile intent (not necessarily against you). You may either look for intent in a single person within 60' or in all people within 60'. To succeed, you must succeed at a Gather Information check opposed by the person's Bluff check. If checking against a group, use the lowest Bluff score among all hostile creatures in the area. Success indicates hostile intent, but not at whom the intent is directed, or even who has the intent if checking more than one person. For purposes of this ability, hostile intent includes any deliberate attempts or desires to bring harm to someone (physically, financially, politically, etc), but does not include things like grudges or animosity if the person doesn't plan to act on those feelings. If your check exceeds theirs by ten or more points, you learn the specifics about who has the hostile intent, to whom they are hostile, and what they are planning to do.
    If you have at least 13 ranks in Gather Information, you can attempt to detect alignments as the Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law spells at will, as an extraordinary ability.
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Offline Tarkisflux

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #51 on: October 26, 2012, 12:36:22 PM »
For Diligent, you may have to double the save DC for the appraise check, since skill checks climb much faster than save DCs.  Unless you want it to pretty much auto-disbelieve illusions by mid levels.
Yeah, I'm not sure about that. I could just have them roll a flat-out Will save, or even an Int-based Will save for the first passive check, but I'm not sure I like that, either. You're right about the auto-passing, though. Doubling the DC seems so dirty, though.

If you expect characters to be decked out in +10 or larger skill items, doubling it is the way to go. If you don't expect people to grab those (or don't want them to be needed to keep the ability useful), I'd suggest DC + illusion's spell level instead. That's about 10 + half level + half level, which is only a bit behind the skill progression without items. It ignores attribute bonuses and feats, but those tend to wind up on the spell DC side more often than they do on the skill bonus side anyway in my experience.

Edit -

I was going to change Diligent to a save again, but I decided against it. This rewards someone for putting ranks in Appraise. If they're willing to pay for it, I'm fine with them getting near-immunity to illusions.

Or that, sure.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 12:39:27 PM by Tarkisflux »

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #52 on: October 26, 2012, 01:02:51 PM »
Actually, adding the level to the effect isn't that bad, either. I might just go with that.

I wouldn't expect to see much +10 skill item use in my game, but that's due to some magic item house-rules I'm using, that I hadn't previously mentioned here. I may have to consolidate all of these into a single thread just to keep my other threads from being so damned confusing! :D
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Offline dman11235

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #53 on: October 26, 2012, 08:28:03 PM »
On Diligent and the Intent Detecting:

The problem with "success indicates hostile intent" is that it implies that succeeding shows them as hostile regardless of whether or not they actually are.  That's why I said success should reveal the intent of the group.  That way, you can tell if you're about to attack otherwise peaceful creatures, or if the seemingly peaceful creatures are about to attack you.
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #54 on: October 26, 2012, 08:48:10 PM »
Yeah, I'll have to word that better. The idea was if you focus on one guy and succeed, it will tell you if he has hostile intent or not. If you focus on a group, it will tell you if at least one person has hostile intention, which is why you're going against the lowest Bluff score of the group rather than the highest. From there, it's up to the investigator to try to focus-fire to narrow it down, if needed. I figured with a standard action, the idea was to allow the PC to size up a situation as a standard action.
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Re: Skill Feats
« Reply #55 on: October 26, 2012, 09:13:52 PM »
Updated the OP.
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