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Creative Corner => New Mechanics and Subsystems => Homebrew and House Rules (D&D) => Sufficiently Advanced Technology is Compatible with Magic => Topic started by: Garryl on October 25, 2012, 02:45:41 AM

Title: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on October 25, 2012, 02:45:41 AM
This thread is for discussion of anything related to Power of Cybernetics.

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Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: samnemath on October 26, 2012, 04:35:16 PM
What is the tier you are aiming with these classes? I also asked this to SirP and his Magipunk setting. Would it be possible to refluff the classes here and put the side to side to a, let's say, Warblade?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on October 26, 2012, 07:15:32 PM
Target is Tier 3, more through tremendous versatility than raw power (though there should be a reasonable amount of that, too). I don't know where the classes (and modules) actually stand right now, but that's the goal.

If you want to refluff them, I put up some stuff about that in Sirp's Magipunk campaign setting a long time ago (look for "Spellmolders"). If you want to go farther than that, just call it Incarnum by another name.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: radmelon on October 28, 2012, 09:18:09 PM
I must say I'm quite intrigued as to how the unfinished modules will turn out, I really like this project. In fact, it's already given me two ideas for entire campaign settings, one partly based on skyrim and the wind waker, the other based on Reboot and a MLP fanfic I'm currently rereading.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: estradus on October 31, 2012, 12:03:52 PM
So long as we've been directed to the d20 future systems in the power of cybernetics preview, I just wanted to address the difference in how money works between d20 future and standard dnd. This has often been a problem for me when I try to integrate something from this system to that system... They use a price dc thing where you roll to buy things and it only goes up or down at weird intervals that don't feel like real money all the time? But is certainly easier to use. I'll share with you my findings on the topic.

This doesn't turn up in the srd, but on page 204 of the core rulebook there is a price dc to dollars conversion. From here, you multiply the dollar count by between 5 and 20, depending generally on how accessible some of these things are. If an purchase is an increase to the price dc, then multiply the price of the item you're applying this to by 4/3 to the power of how much increases the price dc by (so if it increases the price dc by 2, increase the base cost of whatever you're buying by (4/3)^2.) (also 4/3 isnt exactly the value but I forgot how maths works and it was a good thing to round it to.) It isn't the prettiest  system... I just wonder why they used such a rather awkward number system on the table. Wether or not that number applies before or after magical enchantments and the like is between you and your dm. (I'd say no, though. It is ridiculous and getting +8 worth of gadgets will increase the price tenfold.)

DC     $
2        5
3        12
4        20
5        30
6        40
7        55
8        70
9        90
10      120
11      150
12      200
13      275
14      350
15      500
+8      x10

ending it basically the same way the "strength to carrying capacity" table ends. 22 is 14+8, and therefor 3,500. I don't know if this actually helps anyone, but it seemed like a thing I should do.

Also, I would suggest looking into copies of some of the other d20 future books, there are at least many interesting odds and ends in the future tech book.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 03, 2012, 01:17:02 AM
I've been thinking about how to deal with radiation. I like the general principles behind how d20 Future handles it, but the specific implementation lacks in a few areas. It seems to just deal with radiation on a day-by-day basis and doesn't handle long-term exposure in any meaningful way. It also doesn't explain what happens if you're exposed to multiple strengths/types of radiation throughout the day. I'm considering using the following instead:

You accumulate radiation. Your radiation reduces by half every 24 hours.
The values given are for exposure to an irradiated area. Direct contact with a radioactive material causes radiation at 3 times the normal rate.

Mild: 1/6 hours (4/day)
Light: 1/hour (24/day)
Moderate: 1/10 minutes (144/day)
High: 1/minute (1440/day)
Severe: 1/round (14400/day)

You are subject to radiation sickness while you have any radiation. Every 24 hours, you are infected with radiation sickness, the strength of which is based on the amount of radiation you have. While suffering from a more severe form of radiation sickness, you are not at risk of the lesser forms, only the strongest applies. Even if you are cured of or recover from your radiation sickness, you are still at risk of infection each day due to any remaining radiation in your body.

ExposureMinimum RadiationFortitude Save DCIncubation PeriodDamage
Mild1121 day1d4-2 Con (minimum 0)
Light10154d6 hours1d6-2 Con (minimum 0)
Moderate50183d6 hours1d6-1 Con (minimum 0)
Heavy250212d6 hours1d6 Con
Severe2500241d6 hours2d6 Con
Lethal12500271 hour3d6 Con + 1d6 Con drain

It still needs some tweaking, this is only a rough draft. For one thing, the current numbers just don't apply radiation fast enough for it to be any danger beyond a persistent lifestyle hazard, that is, hours of exposure. Even contact with a severe radiation source needs over a minute and a half to cause moderate radiation sickness, something it should be doing inside of a round. I'm hesitant to scale it up too fast, however, as that could have some rather ridiculous numbers easily (earlier drafts had each degree of radiation as 100 times as much as the previous, leading to severe radiation providing 1000000 points per round). At that point, there's barely any reason to even track radiation as points, as the difference in scale between any two degrees of radiation is too extreme.

Why am I focusing on this right now? It started because I wanted to get the Phazon mechanics ready, and Phazon damage is closely tied to radiation. Now I just think that radiation mechanics are an interesting thing to have in the system, and I want a flawless set of mechanics (also, I can't leave well enough alone).

Am I on the right track? Am I just barking up the wrong tree?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: estradus on November 03, 2012, 02:41:49 AM
The last time I encountered radiation in anything I've dealt with it was because a flying machine made out of bones left radation all over the underdark and it just dealt 5d6 radiation damage each round you stood in the irradiated area, so I might not be particularly knowledgeable on ideas for mechanics... But heres what I have.

It seems to me that sometimes there should be some manner of immediette effects associated with radiation? Maybe some areas that deal direct hp radiation damage like the above, but also deals radiation acruement if you survive. Anything that deals lethal radiation should kill you faster then in one hour I guess is all I'm saying.

I like the idea of assigning a radiation score- a value of just how irradiated you are seems very appreciably straight foreward. Most of the numbers do seem a little low- none are really quite as dangerous as it seems like they should be. Severe radiation should take less then a minute to make someone lightly irradiated.

For the radiation recovery, instead of reducing by half every day; perhaps radiation could lower more slowly, but the speed it lowers by can be increased with a heal check? I guess I don't know if there a medical treatment for radiation poisoning. Perhaps a spell spell to reduce it, or even to increase it? Inflict moderate radiation, touch attack to deal 2d8+cl radiation accumulation? This numbers could become an interesting alternate resource, but right now it seems slow in some parts- even lethal radiation needs the "once every 24 hours" mark to be reached before it suddenly drops a serious hammer on your constitution.

On the topic of using radiation as an alternate resource; are there any plans for something like a taint sorcerer/warrior that uses radiation? Presteige class for those who can turn the radiation they've accrued in their bodies into a weapon? I guess phazon is kiiiiinda like that, but just thought so long as you've given us a number we want to keep down, give us some twisted people who can use it.

What effect does radiation have on magical effects? I always saw that the two were intrinsically related, but I come from a weird superhero world where magic and magnets and radiation and all that are all from a related source, or different forms of the same energy or something. For that matter, what effects does radiation have on technology? A quick google search seems to imply that it can cause errors and eventually permanent damage if it can get through the packaging to the electronics themselves, but this only does con damage; for shame. Though I cant say I'm expecting it to do much to the walking dead, aside from maybe make them radioactive and dealing radiation effects to people. And slimes... Would or would not slimes be effected? It seems like they would thrive on mild radiation, but I can't see them lasting long in the strong variety. What about angels? I remember stories somewhere where angels were like super radioactive and melted faces when you were near them, but it might have been a thing I just accidently made up. It seems outsiders might be either particularly resistant to it because they aren't bothered by these silly mortal things, or maybe its like superman vs magic and they're really weak to it. According to the drow necroship adventure I mentioned earlier in this increasingly long post, the main effect on elementals is that they go craaaaaazy, which makes sense to me. Just some thoughts, what effect does it have on the abnormal.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: veekie on November 03, 2012, 04:46:25 AM
Why not just use disease/poison mechanics(with the labels changed so it's not so trivial to cure)? Unlike usual disease, it stacks with itself. It is somewhat infectious, someone heavily irradiated is radioactive enough to inflict the same upon others, though at a reduced intensity.
Mechanically thats what radiation poisoning is, long term ability damage over time. For variety you could have the first point of rad damage be ability burn if you want it to be harder to fix.

Acute radiation poisoning is simply straight damage + a large dose of the affliction. Any radiation strong enough to cause immediate damage is straight out an environmental damage effect. This degree of radiation even weakens metals, and can burn other stuff, so it's simply a poisonous energy attack.

Mid term radiation poisoning is disease/poison. Until it runs it's course, you're taking ability damage/drain/burn over intervals.

Long term radiation poisoning is simply living with ability loss. It can kill you because your Con is weakened and vulnerable to other causes, but that's all.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 05, 2012, 03:52:04 PM
Okay, how does this version feel? The bit about tracking different levels of radiation separately and then stopping tracking when you get hit by something stronger is there to make sure you don't get double hit by walking through layers of lesser radiation on the way to a stronger source, but it's too complex, I think.

Chronic Radiation
Long-term radiation exposure can damage the body, but the effects are rarely immediate, especially when dealing with weaker levels of radiation.

You accumulate radiation. Your radiation reduces by [formula] every [time period].
The values given are for exposure to an irradiated area. Direct contact with a radioactive material causes [more radiation].

At the end of each time period (the length of which varies based on the strength of radiation you were exposed to), you gain the indicated amount of radiation. For example, 6 hours after your initial exposure to mild radiation, you gain 1 point of radiation, regardless of whether your exposure was for 1 round or for the full 6 hours. After those 6 hours have elapsed, you would track your exposure to mild radiation again, regardless of whether you were still exposed to the same source or a new one.
   Track each strength of radiation separately, but if you are exposed to multiple strengths of radiation during the same general time period, lesser forms of radiation are essentially overwhelmed and washed out by the stronger ones. At the end of a period of radiation for which you gain any amount of radiation, stop tracking the periods of lesser strengths of radiation. For example, if you were exposed to light radiation and then to severe radiation a few minutes later, you would gain the radiation from exposure to severe radiation at the end of the round, and you would cease tracking the light radiation until you were next exposed to light radiation. However, if you were exposed to light radiation, and then to moderate radiation 58 minutes later, you would gain the radiation for light exposure 2 minutes after that (1 hour after your initial exposure to light radiation) and then the radiation for moderate exposure 8 minutes after that (10 minutes after your initial exposure to moderate radiation).

Mild: 1/6 hours (4/day)
Light: 4/hour (96/day)
Moderate: 14/10 minutes (2016/day)
High: 40/minute (57600/day)
Severe: 200/round (2880000/day)

You are subject to radiation sickness while you have any radiation. Every 24 hours, you are infected with radiation sickness, the strength of which is based on the amount of radiation you have. While suffering from a more severe form of radiation sickness, you are not at risk of the lesser forms, only the strongest applies. Even if you are cured of or recover from your radiation sickness, you are still at risk of infection each day due to any remaining radiation in your body.

ExposureMinimum RadiationFortitude Save DCIncubation PeriodDamage
Mild2121 day1d4-2 Con (minimum 0)
Light5154d6 hours1d6-2 Con (minimum 0)
Moderate100183d6 hours1d6-1 Con (minimum 0)
Heavy2000212d6 hours1d6 Con
Severe40000241d6 hours2d6 Con
Lethal800000271 hour3d6 Con + 1d6 Con drain

Acute Radiation
Stronger doses of radiation can have obvious, immediate effects.

Moderate: 1d6 damage/10 minutes
High: 1d6 damage/minute
Severe: 1d6 damage/round
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: radmelon on November 05, 2012, 07:23:36 PM
I think that that works fine for radiation, as it's not likely that radiation is going to be a massive thing in the game unless a fallout-esque setting is being run.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 06, 2012, 12:48:13 AM
Cyberneticists were looking a little dry at level 1, so I added the Tinkering Activator feat as a bonus feat, letting them use Int for save DCs instead of Con. I've been working on the feats a lot today, along with cybernetic items. I put the preliminaries for the items up in the WIP thread, in case you want to take a look. Feats are still evolving.

I just realized, I'm going to need a sidebar on Magic/Technology Compatibility, akin to Magic/Psionics Transparency.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: veekie on November 06, 2012, 01:12:30 AM
That should do it yeah.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on January 30, 2013, 11:06:35 PM
Yay, progress!
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on January 31, 2013, 12:04:15 AM
Chapters 1, 2, and 3 are up! Yes, there are "chapters" now, just like in any professional printed sourcebook. Feats are mostly ready, just needing some touch-ups and tables. You can see the current version (as of writing) on the Rule of Cool forums. The rest will come over time as I write it.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on February 01, 2013, 09:02:58 PM
Skills and feats are up. I'm still adding to the Computer Use skill, mostly converting it from D20 Modern, but also trying to determine what existing classes should have it as a class skill (assuming, of course, that they were not in a fantasy setting where the only computers as we know them are things like Deep Rot).
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on February 09, 2013, 01:20:17 AM
Just posted a preliminary version of various mundane and cybernetic (read: magical) items, and various spells and powers.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Jackinthegreen on February 12, 2013, 11:22:51 PM
I find it somewhat interesting that your least, lesser, etc sockets don't line up with the chakras from MoI.  For instance, the crown chakra is a least in MoI, while the helmet socket is a greater in PoC.

Now that I've thought about it I think I like it a bit more.  For some silly reason D&D places too much value on senses, but swapping the visor down to the least level instead of making it a lesser opens up things that are actually at a reasonable level.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on March 03, 2013, 06:59:34 PM
I was just thinking about the Dreadnought, the Energy Warrior, and Evasion.

Dreadnoughts can pick up the Armored Evasion talent at level 5, despite the fact that they have poor Reflex saves and don't get Mettle until level 14. I was thinking about removing that battle talent. Possibly adding some talents to get or enhance cover instead if you want to be protected from explosions and whatnot.

Energy Warriors are the dodgy folks (light armor, good Reflex saves), but don't have Evasion. What they do have is a +1 DC boost at level 6 that has irked me for some time (I put it in originally as a replacement for the Totemist's +1 meldshaper level upon which the progression was based). I don't think there are any modules that grant Evasion, anyways, although I think there's one or two on the drawing board (I know there's at least one for Uncanny Dodge). So, this is my longwinded way of suggesting that Evasion should be added maybe to the Energy Warrior at level 6 in place of the +1 DC boost.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: radmelon on March 03, 2013, 10:30:31 PM
I think that makes more sense, both thematically and mechanically.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Jackinthegreen on March 04, 2013, 11:06:35 PM
I can say nothing more than what Radmelon said.  It certainly does make sense.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on March 19, 2013, 01:00:38 AM
I'm thinking of making your activator level a singular value shared across all classes, instead of each class having its own value. Your AL would thus be based on the sum of your levels in all activating classes. This is a relatively minor thing, since very few effects use your AL (mostly just the DC for dispel checks). I could even go whole hog ToB and say your non-activating classes still count as 1/2 to determine AL. That would also let me dump the AL = 1/2 character level text in the Activate Module feats.

I'm also thinking, to go with this (only if I go with the whole hog ToB style) changing the formula for energy capacity. Currently, it's based on character level, like Incarnum. With the change above, I could change it back to activator level, like it was in MaI, without worrying that characters without activating classes are unable to allocate energy and use System feats and racial features.

The above changes are ultimately of benefit far later on when Rise of the Machines and its mecha will come along. Since they're probably going to be statted like monsters, they're likely to have higher HD than CR/effective level, which, under the current system, would give them inflated energy capacities. That would be a bad thing. Although I could probably deal with it through RotM's subsystem rules, too.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 19, 2013, 09:02:12 AM
That sounds good to me, it would clean things up and smooth them out nicely.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on April 21, 2013, 07:53:39 AM
So, Garryl, you mind if I made a version of these feats (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9725) for PoC?

I mean, I'm trying to get back from creating sucky homebrew. So I need the practice.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on April 21, 2013, 12:37:09 PM
I'd love that. Go right ahead.

Edit: Just remember that modules aren't a closely tied to body slots and physical, magic items as soulmelds are. They don't normally interfere with body slots, or even associate with them directly, unlike soulmelds which are shaped around specific chakras/body slots, and prevent magic item use when bound. And that modules can be attached to any accessible socket, even if they only normally gain benefits from specific sockets (you could, for example, attach the Power Suit module to your Energy Emitter socket just for the increased energy capacity if you wanted to).
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on April 21, 2013, 01:08:29 PM
Temporary Craftsmanship [Cybernetic][Item Creation]
You have discovered how to activate your Modules in a way that allows you to lend them to others.
Prerequisites: Must be able to activate at least 2 Modules, Activator Level 3rd
Benefits: Whenever you activate a Module, you may activate it as a Widget, appearing at your feat as a solid item. As long as a Widget exists, anyone can pick it up and use it as if it were a slotless cybernetic item with an Activator level equal to your own.

The Module is still subject to effects that destroy modules, and is additionally subject to effects which target magic items. If you activate the same module an additional time, either as a Widget or as a normal Module, the existing Widget is deactivated and disappears.

A Widget does not count against the maximum number of Modules a given creature is able to have active at one time unless they are currently wearing that Widget.

You cannot allocate any energy into a Widget, and you cannot activate a Widget that is attached to a Socket. You may not create a Widget out of an Integrated Module.
Special: Your activator level increases by +1, to a maximum of your total Hit Dice.

Effortless Invention [Cybernetic]
You have gotten better at rapidly tinkering up Widgets.
Prerequisites: Temporary Craftsmanship, Activator level 6th, able to attach modules to a Socket.
Benefit: If someone with an energy pool is wearing one of your Widgets, they may allocate energy to that Widget or attach it to a Socket as if it were a Module they had activated themselves.

As soon as they are no longer wearing that Widget, the energy allocated is deallocated from the Widget and returned to the person who allocated it, and the Widget is detached from that particular socket.
Special: Your activator level increases by +1, to a maximum of your total Hit Dice.

Pocket Industry [Cybernetic]
A breakthrough! Advanced technologies may now be granted to the poor, benighted masses!
Prerequisites: Effortless Invention
Benefits: Whenever you allocate energy to a Widget that you created, you may choose to have the energy not return to you when it leaves your person. You may not change how much energy you have allocated to a Widget unless you are wearing it. As long as you still have at least 1 energy allocated to a Widget, no-one else may allocate more energy into it.

In addition, if you have a Widget attached to one of your sockets, you may choose to have it not detach from that socket when it leaves your person; anyone who chooses to use that Widdget treats it as a cybernetic item that takes up a body slot analogous to the socket that the Widget is attached to, and may not attach it to any other sockets. You may not change what socket the Widget is attached to unless you are wearing it.
Special: Your activator level increases by +1, to a maximum of your total Hit Dice.

Technological Aesthetic [Cybernetic]
Your technology looks like it stepped right out of the blueprints of your dreams.
Prerequisites: The ability to activate a module.
Benefit: When you first take this feat, you may specify an aesthetic for your modules to take on. From this point on, all of your modules take on that aesthetic.

For example, if your aesthetic was "Steampunk", and you activated a Power Suit, it could form an imposing suit of armor with gears peeking through the gaps, with steam hissing out of a boiler in the back, rather than some sleek future technology.

Any Spellcraft checks or Computer Use checks to determine that you are carrying or using a module have their DC increased by 10, because of the sharply different aesthetic.
Special: Your activator level increases by +1, to a maximum of your total Hit Dice.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
There, all done. Despite the fact that you reminded me of the fact that you can tie anything to anything after I got started... that doesn't really change anything. I mean, you could attach Power Armor to your Visor socket, and then create a Widget from it, if you really wanted to. It just wouldn't do much, besides the increased energy capacity.

Also, curse you Garryl! I originally renamed Soulmeld Items to Gadgets, then I saw that you already were using the word. I had to settle for Widget.

And aren't you glad that I went for inventor over efevreist?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on April 21, 2013, 08:23:17 PM
Temporary Craftsmanship shouldn't work with Integrated Modules. Also, it should be a slotless cybernetic item with an activator level equal to your own.

Effortless Invention should say deallocated, not divested.

You have a stray reference to Gadget instead of Widget in Pocket Industry.

Technological Aesthetic should also influence the Computer Use checks to identify the module being used.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on April 21, 2013, 08:50:47 PM
What are you talking about?

I never made those mistakes.

:scared

But, yeah, they were fixed. Including a mistake you did not catch!
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on April 21, 2013, 09:02:37 PM
Which mistake? And It's item Creation, not Item Crafting.

Don't blame me for taking gadgets. I just stole the term from d20 Modern/Future.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on April 21, 2013, 09:09:16 PM
I had a Magical Item in Pocket Industry.

And what are you insinuating? It was item creation from the start! :scared
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on April 22, 2013, 01:29:31 AM
Pocket Industry shouldn't work with modules attached to multiple sockets or to sockets that don't have analogous body slots.

Edit: Efevreist?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on April 22, 2013, 01:47:33 AM
Efevreist comes from efevrei, the Greek word for Invent.

Ergo, one who invents.

And can you give me a quick rundown of the sockets that have no body-slot analogy? I could set up Pocket Industry to work with multi-socket modules by taking up all of those body spaces. I'll probably have to do that with my Incarnum version as well, for stuff like Totem.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on April 22, 2013, 01:55:53 AM
And can you give me a quick rundown of the sockets that have no body-slot analogy? I could set up Pocket Industry to work with multi-socket modules by taking up all of those body spaces. I'll probably have to do that with my Incarnum version as well, for stuff like Totem.

Table 1.1.2: Socket/Body Slot Equivalencies (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8695.0), also has Chakra equivalencies for easy reference.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on April 22, 2013, 02:23:33 AM
Sweetness. I've got stuff I need to work on, so I'll fix everything up real nice tomorrow.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on April 28, 2013, 03:53:29 PM
I just added a few more energized melee weapons. The general idea is to be slightly weaker than a normal weapon would be when unpowered, and slightly stronger when energy is allocated. If you're planning to use the Energized property or similar things, it's an advantageous combo (since it's all one energy receptacle, letting your energy count for both aspects), but otherwise it's a tradeoff of 1 energy for a slightly better weapon. How do they look?

The laser chainweapons are just like the weapons they mimic (dagger, longsword, etc.) when unpowered, except with an inferior crit range. When you allocate energy to them, they're like the weapons they mimic but one size bigger damage and a slightly better damage type (piercing and slashing).

The plasma whip is like a one-handed spiked chain that deals fire damage when powered, but like a whip (and all the disadvantages that come with it) without the triple reach when unpowered.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on April 29, 2013, 02:06:34 PM
The Chronologist and Deleter PrCs are now up.

In addition to the usual slew of dual progression PrCs, are there any archetypes you'd like to see expressed through prestige classes? Please let me know, I'm looking for ideas.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on April 29, 2013, 05:16:45 PM
The Chronologist and Deleter PrCs are now up.

In addition to the usual slew of dual progression PrCs, are there any archetypes you'd like to see expressed through prestige classes? Please let me know, I'm looking for ideas.

A Hacker would be nice...
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on April 29, 2013, 05:23:40 PM
Hacker how so?

Edit: By which I mean please elaborate. Hacker is broad enough term to imply a lot of things in a lot of contexts.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on April 29, 2013, 06:34:42 PM
The one thing that is popping in my head is someone who can allocate Energy to other people's modules (and other stuff, like their System feats, later on), to gain some level of control over them.

Like how the do it in bad Hollywood movies.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on April 30, 2013, 09:33:02 PM
The one thing that is popping in my head is someone who can allocate Energy to other people's modules (and other stuff, like their System feats, later on), to gain some level of control over them.

Like how the do it in bad Hollywood movies.

You mean the rapid, random typing and spouting of meaningless technobabble? Preferably with some raster graphics and ones and zeroes flying all over the screen.

I'll see what I can do. I'm thinking, in addition to the whole taking control of others' modules like you mentioned, some dispelling (existing hack based abilities in PoC dispel and suppress things), debuffing, and buffing (boost allies' modules and spell patterns beyond their rated limits). Maybe borrow a bit from Sirp's Divhead.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on April 30, 2013, 09:51:22 PM
I was also thinking about them getting a special "spike" socket, which they can stick on something.

"Guys, I've hacked into the door's technomagic processor and spammed the subroutines with the code. We're in."
"Marvin, that's not a- wow, that actually worked."

With Modules for doing stuff like "unlocking" doors, blasting open walls, quickly reading through a library's worth of information...

Actually, wait, that sounds open enough to be its own category of module (maybe call 'em [External], let them provide some effects tied to an object, rather than you? Like having them store data in a matrix, create Cybernetic Doors, and the like...)
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on May 03, 2013, 10:47:35 AM
There's some good stuff for mundane combatants now. Aid Another with ranged attacks, Autofire, and Suppressing Fire are new actions that ranged combatants can take (based on their implementations in SWSE), and with the better variety of ranged weapons available, hopefully we'll be seeing more of them.

Armor is pretty much finished. The prices and weights could use some tweaking, maybe, if anyone feels like taking a look. And from a balance perspective, yes, it is entirely intentional that medium armor is completely eclipsed by the armor of the future, but plate mail and chain shirts still have their places.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on May 21, 2013, 04:06:24 PM
I finished another 9 modules last night.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Jackinthegreen on May 23, 2013, 07:59:51 PM
I think I found a bit of a typo:

The Ice Spreader module is only available to Energy Warriors, yet one of its prereqs (Missile Launcher) isn't available to Energy Warriors.  Perhaps add it to the EW list?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on May 23, 2013, 09:32:24 PM
Thanks for catching that. Missile Launcher is now on the Energy Warrior list (or at least, will be once I update the post again).
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on May 24, 2013, 03:13:16 PM
Races are up.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 24, 2013, 05:32:07 PM
Okay, I've officially added this as one of my favorite homebrew projects and did some more digging than I have before and I have a couple of questions/comments.


First, I see that modules don't take up magic item slots the same way that soulmelds do.  I like this, it simplifies things immensely.

I thought you were going to base everything off of activator level and do something ToB style with it?

I like the classes and how they compliment each other.  No useless Soulborn equivalent here!


...too many modules.  I might go over them later.



Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on May 24, 2013, 06:38:15 PM
Okay, I've officially added this as one of my favorite homebrew projects and did some more digging than I have before and I have a couple of questions/comments.
...
First, I see that modules don't take up magic item slots the same way that soulmelds do.  I like this, it simplifies things immensely.
...
I like the classes and how they compliment each other.  No useless Soulborn equivalent here!

I'm glad you like it. That's what I'm shooting for.

Quote
I thought you were going to base everything off of activator level and do something ToB style with it?

It's on my to-do list. I'm working on appropriate wording. I also have to make sure that there aren't any unintended interactions between the AL-based energy capacity and ToB-style AL calculations and any existing abilities and creatures before implementing such a sweeping change. It's mostly down to saying that monsters (of the inflated HD by CR variety) need some special instructions saying that their AL from non-advanced racial HD is some specific amount, rather than 1/2 HD, sort of like how Reth Dekala have IL 5 as 5 HD creatures, and Valkyries have IL 10 as 11 HD creatures. It'll be a bit funky for the true dragons, though (having AL by age category which amounts to roughly 1/3 HD, and also have AL by effective Cyberneticist/Energy Warrior level, only the larger of which is used to overwrite the 1/2 non-advanced racial HD).

Quote
...too many modules.  I might go over them later.

Yeah, there are a lot of them. Not so many that it's a problem, I hope? I'm basically making them so that there's something for every occasion, plus a lot of interesting and unique effects on top.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 24, 2013, 07:37:48 PM
There aren't too many modules at all, especially given that each class only seems to have access to a third or so.  There's just a lot to go through and I was at work and lazy.  Right now I'm just lazy.   :p

Speaking of to do lists, is there anything that you feel I could help out with?  I'm not awesome at homebrewing things on my own (though I've done a bit) but I'm a helper!
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: radmelon on May 24, 2013, 08:02:38 PM
I absolutely cannot wait until this system is at a more playable level of completion, it looks like it'll be great.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on May 24, 2013, 09:43:19 PM
There aren't too many modules at all, especially given that each class only seems to have access to a third or so.  There's just a lot to go through and I was at work and lazy.  Right now I'm just lazy.   :p

By my last count (which includes several WIP modules and one or two that aren't posted yet; I have a script that parses the files and outputs statistics automatically), there are 43 Cyberneticist modules, 40 Dreadnought modules, 35 Energy Warrior modules, and 1 module on no class's list. There are a total of 74 modules so far. Each class has roughly 1/2 of the modules available to them.

By comparison, Magic of Incarnum has around 90 soulmelds (plus the ones printed in Dragon Magic and online in the Mind's Eye articles), but a greater proportion are restricted to only one class or another (many PoC modules are usable by 2 or 3 of the activator classes). Incarnates only have about 45-50 or so soulmelds, Soulborn have around 35, and Totemists have around 40.

Quote
Speaking of to do lists, is there anything that you feel I could help out with?  I'm not awesome at homebrewing things on my own (though I've done a bit) but I'm a helper!

Thank you very much for your offer. Off hand, I can think of the following for PoC:
- Fluff for everything. I'm horrible at that.
- PrCs, or at least PrC ideas.
(click to show/hide)
- Items and equipment for sci-fi settings.
(click to show/hide)
- Lots to do with modules.
(click to show/hide)
- A few more Cybernetic spells and powers. Enough spells to fill out the Cybernetics domain and one other, and enough powers to fill out the Cybernetics mantle (which doesn't need as many powers because psionics and its augmentation rules condense a lot of spells into one or two powers).
- Some Cybernetic invocations for Warlocks and DFAs.
- A deity or two for cybernetics and sci-fi games. Bonus points if you can write up WH40K's Omnissiah as a D&D-compatible deity.
- ACFs, racial substitution levels, and class variants.
- More Cybernetic creatures.
- PoC true dragons.
- A generic Mutant template, suitable for various mutations appropriate for LA +0 through LA +3. You can see what I'm going for in the WIP thread.
- Some parts of the Computer Use skill are still in the process of being ported from D20 Modern.
- Various things related to sci-fi environments.
(click to show/hide)
- ToB-style activator level and AL-based energy capacity, as mentioned earlier.
- Metroid campaign setting things.
- Starcraft campaign setting things.
- Anything else you can think of that would be handy for a sci-fi setting.

I absolutely cannot wait until this system is at a more playable level of completion, it looks like it'll be great.

I'm glad you like it. It's actually in a pretty playable state as-is. The base classes are complete, as are the feats and the core of the module lists.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 24, 2013, 10:00:47 PM
I started a line by line response but there were too many lines.

I'll see what ideas I can come up with to help out.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on May 24, 2013, 11:36:40 PM
A lot of that is from scope creep. Some time between when I stopped working on MaI and a couple of months ago, I decided that I didn't just want to make a sci-fi themed subsystem, but I actually wanted a whole slew of rules sufficient for sci-fi D&D games. Without that, the to-do list would just be fluff, modules, and PrCs, and I'd probably be content with the modules that are written already.

Let me know what you want to work with. I have notes for a bunch of them on my computer that might help.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 24, 2013, 11:42:15 PM
I can try to come up with ideas for modules and PrCs.
 
Anything else I came up with would be blatantly stealing ideas from other sources, for example I know a few places to look at mutation templates.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Jackinthegreen on May 25, 2013, 12:16:15 AM
How many sci-fi universes might you want to draw inspiration from?  You've already mentioned Metroid, Starcraft, and Warhammer, but could other places be acceptable?  Mostly thinking about Stargate, Star Trek, and Star Wars, with some Deus Ex thrown in for good measure.  Hmm, maybe some Ghost in the Shell too...

Edit: Addition to Space Marine:  If you intend for Dreadnoughts to get good use from their Helmet slot, it might be better to let the Space Marine class have access to that slot.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on May 25, 2013, 01:26:51 AM
I can try to come up with ideas for modules and PrCs.
 
Anything else I came up with would be blatantly stealing ideas from other sources, for example I know a few places to look at mutation templates.

I'm looking more for mutation abilities and effects (both positive and negative) than full-fledged mutant templates. I'm building a point-based, do-it-yourself template since,
   a) Mutations are always described as really different things that are rarely the same for two people.
   b) D20 Future did it point based, and that seems like a good place to start.
You can see what I have so far here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=3381.msg157786#msg157786).

You know, with all this feature creep, I'm sorely tempted to just split things off. PoC can keep just the things related to the cybernetics subsystem, while the parts related to sci-fi as a whole can go under their own tag, WoT (World of Tomorrow) (or something like that; I kinda like acronyms to tag things like they would be divided if printed in books).
(click to show/hide)

How many sci-fi universes might you want to draw inspiration from?  You've already mentioned Metroid, Starcraft, and Warhammer, but could other places be acceptable?  Mostly thinking about Stargate, Star Trek, and Star Wars, with some Deus Ex thrown in for good measure.  Hmm, maybe some Ghost in the Shell too...

All of them. Metroid, Starcraft, and Warhammer are just the ones most on my mind these days. They also share the idea of relatively high end technology (power armor and the like) on a personal scale, so they're more closely related to PoC's mechanical concepts.

Quote
Edit: Addition to Space Marine:  If you intend for Dreadnoughts to get good use from their Helmet slot, it might be better to let the Space Marine class have access to that slot.

Good idea. That would give it earlier access to one greater slot in exchange for access to the others (which could still be acquired through feats). Given that PoC classes are of the "loaded with class features" type, dropping activator levels isn't as necessary as it is for spellcasting and manifesting classes, so as long as it stays at full or near-full progression, it should certainly get something up there.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 25, 2013, 02:17:31 PM
Splitting it off seems like the best way to go since you've already got three different tags in this project.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: radmelon on May 25, 2013, 07:21:38 PM
Looking at the races, it seems to me that Space Pirates would get a bonus to Con instead of Str, since they Tend to live in hazardous conditions and seem to prefer ranged combat to melee. I realise that these aren't that good reasons, but it has always seemed to me that they were more tough than strong. Also, +Str races are a dime a dozen while few give a bonus to Con unless they also give a bonus to Str.

That said, even as they are I want to play one right now. *Sigh* so much homebrew, so little time.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on May 25, 2013, 10:59:25 PM
Really? I don't know of many +Str races without LA or RHD. Offhand, I can only think of Half-Orcs and Wood Elves. +Con races, meanwhile, include Dwarves, Gnomes, Dusklings, Warforged, Mongrelfolk, the Dragonborn template, and several lesser planetouched races.

Edit: Huh, I forgot that Orcs were LA +0.

The Master +0 LA Race List III, among the +0 LA, 0 or 1 RHD races, lists a total of:
- 21 races with +2 Str
- 9 races with +4 Str
- 65 races with +2 Con
- 4 races with +4 Con
which includes
- 7 races with +2 Str and +2 Con
- 1 race with +4 Str and +2 Con (Water Orcs)

It also lists 2 LA +0 templates with +2 Con (and no +Str), 1 with +2 Str (and no +Con), and 1 with +4 Str and +2 Con.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 26, 2013, 12:21:27 AM
How would you feel about a feat that will allow Energy Warriors to treat their Energy Beam as a light weapon?  This would help out builds that want to focus on the Dual Weapon module.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on May 26, 2013, 01:03:50 AM
Sure that can work.

Lithe Energy Beam [Cybernetic]
Prerequisites: Energy Beam.
Benefits: You can treat any one-handed forms of your Energy Beam as light weapons where beneficial.
Normal: The energy blade and beam cannons forms of your Energy Beam are one-handed weapons.
Special: Your activator level increases by +1, to a maximum of your total Hit Dice.

Isn't this mostly just Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting by another name, though? Not that that's a problem, as this is a more specific feat that has advantages over the more general option in various situations, and better draws players into considering its usage.

Anyways, now I'm going to draw up some more energy beam feats. A chain to get a bunch of natural attacks, maybe? Or to summon an energy beam-based companion beast?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 26, 2013, 01:08:13 AM
Yeah, it is basically oversized two-weapon fighting for Energy Warriors.  It probably isn't the most optimal feat, but I noticed its absence.   :)
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on May 26, 2013, 01:51:45 PM
Here's what I'm thinking so far.


Energy Claws [Cybernetic]
Prerequisites: Energy Beam.
Benefits: You can project your Energy Beam in a new form, as a set of claws. The claws commonly manifest as a spiky energy field around the backs of your hands, starting just above your wrist and extending slightly past your fingertips, although this does not impede your ability to hold objects, use hand-slot items, or otherwise use your hands. As claws, your energy beam functions as a claw natural weapon. By default, it deals magic, piercing, and slashing damage affected by damage reduction, and has a critical threat range of 20/x2. Despite being a natural weapon, it is still considered a masterwork weapon, so you retain the +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls with your energy claws.
Special: Your activator level increases by +1, to a maximum of your total Hit Dice.


Energy Fangs [Cybernetic]
Prerequisites: Energy Beam.
Benefits: You can project your Energy Beam in a new form, as a set of fangs. The fangs commonly manifest as a jagged mask of energy around your face, although this does not impede your ability to see, speak, use face- and helm-slot items, or otherwise use your head. As fangs, your energy beam functions as a bite natural weapon. By default, it deals magic, bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage affected by damage reduction, and has a critical threat range of 20/x2. Despite the fact that energy fangs are not held in a hand, you must still have a hand free to project them initially. Despite being a natural weapon, it is still considered a masterwork weapon, so you retain the +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls with your energy fangs.
Special: Your activator level increases by +1, to a maximum of your total Hit Dice.


Energy Lash [Cybernetic]
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +1, Energy Beam.
Benefits: You can project your Energy Beam in a new form, as a whip-like stream of energy. As an energy lash, your energy beam functions as a two-handed melee weapon. By default, it deals magic, slashing damage affected by damage reduction, and has a critical threat range of 20/x2.
   An energy lash has reach, so you can strike opponents twice as far away as normal with it. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, it can be used against foes within your normal reach.
   You can use an energy lash to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the energy lash to avoid being tripped.
   When using an energy lash, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an opponent (including the roll to keep from being disarmed if the attack fails).
   You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an energy lash sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon for you.
Special: Your activator level increases by +1, to a maximum of your total Hit Dice.
(Spiked chain for energy beams.)


I'm also trying to work up the following:
- A way to combine the claws and fangs together (since you can only have one form of energy beam projected at a time), and then to add on more natural attacks (a set of tentacles or something). Why should Totemists get all the natural attack fun?
- A sort of summoning thing, where you turn your energy beam into a semi-autonomous beast like an animal companion. You would not be able to use your energy beam normally while this was in effect.
- A general sort of thing to let you have multiple forms of your energy beam projected at once.
- A generic damage boost for energy beam attacks.

I'm also asking myself the Soulknife question about whether to just give access to forms of all weapons with which you are proficient. This would be a rewrite of the baseline Energy Beam mechanics, which I've been thinking about looking at anyways.
- I had asked a similar question (whether to use a Monk-like damage progression and make it size-based instead of the current size-independent version) when I originally wrote the Energy Warrior class.
- The innate damage scaling might be unnecessary. At most levels, Energy Beam damage already gets roughly +1d6 more damage bonus than a Scout's Skirmish from baseline energy emitter modules, yet doesn't have to jump through hoops to make full attacks with that bonus damage. The extra +4d6 damage over 20 levels seems kinda unnecessary in that regard. On the other hand, you do lose out on weapon properties other than straight enhancement bonuses. On the other other hand, module abilities make up for it.
- Working off of existing weapons feels more elegant than having to write up specific forms.
- It's also an elegant way to add weapon size scaling for damage back in (it doesn't make as much sense when dealing with nd6 damage expressions).
- I need to rewrite a couple parts of Energy Beam anyways (the bits about "magic" damage should be replaced with some text saying that it always counts as a cybernetic weapon, and thus can bypass DR/cybernetic, DR/magic, DR/psionic, and affect incorporeal, even if it doesn't have an enhancement bonus).

On an unrelated note, I need to add a rule that says module-created objects share an energy receptacle with the module that created them.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: radmelon on May 26, 2013, 06:18:59 PM
Really? I don't know of many +Str races without LA or RHD. Offhand, I can only think of Half-Orcs and Wood Elves. +Con races, meanwhile, include Dwarves, Gnomes, Dusklings, Warforged, Mongrelfolk, the Dragonborn template, and several lesser planetouched races.

Edit: Huh, I forgot that Orcs were LA +0.

The Master +0 LA Race List III, among the +0 LA, 0 or 1 RHD races, lists a total of:
- 21 races with +2 Str
- 9 races with +4 Str
- 65 races with +2 Con
- 4 races with +4 Con
which includes
- 7 races with +2 Str and +2 Con
- 1 race with +4 Str and +2 Con (Water Orcs)

It also lists 2 LA +0 templates with +2 Con (and no +Str), 1 with +2 Str (and no +Con), and 1 with +4 Str and +2 Con.
...Obviously I don't know what I'm talking about. Suggestion withdrawn.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on May 27, 2013, 11:31:40 AM
Here's a tentative version of Energy Beam that has it taking the form of any weapon, rather than just a couple of fixed forms.
(click to show/hide)

How's it look? Does that seem reasonable?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on May 31, 2013, 03:59:07 PM
I added many new spells and powers.

Any thoughts about the altered Energy Beam ability?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 31, 2013, 04:30:13 PM
Altered Energy Beam:

Honestly I prefer a fixed selection of forms, it makes more sense to me logically.  How will you do damage for the energy beam with the new one?  Also, opening up that many options could lead to potential abuse, and anyways you're giving all kinds of bonuses to it so people don't need energy beam spiked chains or whatever IMO.  If people want specific weapon abilities that's what the Energy Lash feat is for.

If you want more options to the energy beam, I'd suggest taking a look at the Pathfinder Soulknife Form Mind Blade (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife#TOC-Form-Mind-Blade-Su-) ability.  If you adjust the damage to 1d4 for light, 1d6 for one-handed, and 1d8 for two-handed it will A) better fit with the progression you've already created (just up the number of dice as you're already doing) and B) let people do things like go power-attack or two-weapon fighting or sword and board or whatever.

Just add the beam cannon on top of that.  Hell, you can give it the same light/one-handed/two-handed options if you want to give people the options of dual wielding ranged weapons.

That reminds me, if you're letting people have more than one melee weapon type then this line, "You can only use your energy emitter in the form of one weapon at any given time, although you can freely switch between them as the situation demands." needs to be adjusted somehow to allow for a different weapon per hand.



Speaking of stealing things from Pathfinder's Soulknife...

Potential feat ideas (just throwing things out there).

  -  A feat to let you shape an energy beam into a shield (say light/heavy/tower?  or maybe just heavy.) with no ASF/ACP that gets the same enhancement bonus that the energy beam does (maybe to attack and damage if you can shield bash with it?).

  - Energy Beam Finesse: Like weapon finesse but now you can finesse your two-handed energy sword if you want.

  -  Feat to make energy armor?  I don't know.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: condochimp on June 01, 2013, 09:25:59 PM
Hm, I'm not sure of your policies for this, but I had an idea for a PoC Base Class, which I suppose I'll detail in a spoiler for future reference (and feedback).

Princely Detective
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 03, 2013, 02:35:47 AM
Altered Energy Beam:

Honestly I prefer a fixed selection of forms, it makes more sense to me logically.  How will you do damage for the energy beam with the new one?  Also, opening up that many options could lead to potential abuse, and anyways you're giving all kinds of bonuses to it so people don't need energy beam spiked chains or whatever IMO.  If people want specific weapon abilities that's what the Energy Lash feat is for.

My idea was that the base damage from the energy beam would be the same as the weapon it takes the form of. The bonus damage from the modules would stay as d6s and d4s, possibly with something like +1 damage/die for two-handed weapons to keep them from falling way behind TWF. Maybe even -1 damage/die for off-hand weapons. /shrug. Hopefully, by separating the two more fully, it would also reduce the risk of confusion about whether or not the module bonus damage dice are multiplied (they're not, but since the base damage is a progression of d6s and the bonus damage is also a progression of d6s, it's easy to mix it up).

Note that since you'd only get to pick from weapons with which you are proficient already, you'd need EWP or the like to snag a spiked chain form. I was thinking of adding in martial weapon proficiency with that change, though.

Another thing is that using real weapons as the basis makes it a bit easier to multiclass and/or to dip Energy Warrior in builds that care about weapon selection otherwise (reach, tripping, unarmed, etc.), although that's more of a corner case.

Quote
If you want more options to the energy beam, I'd suggest taking a look at the Pathfinder Soulknife Form Mind Blade (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife#TOC-Form-Mind-Blade-Su-) ability.  If you adjust the damage to 1d4 for light, 1d6 for one-handed, and 1d8 for two-handed it will A) better fit with the progression you've already created (just up the number of dice as you're already doing) and B) let people do things like go power-attack or two-weapon fighting or sword and board or whatever.

Just add the beam cannon on top of that.  Hell, you can give it the same light/one-handed/two-handed options if you want to give people the options of dual wielding ranged weapons.

... I think I was going to say something about my wanting to get away from that "nd6" base damage progression was what spurred this desire for change. But I forgot what it was exactly that I wanted to say. Meh. I think I said it already a couple posts back (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7768.60;msg=166420), though.

Quote
That reminds me, if you're letting people have more than one melee weapon type then this line, "You can only use your energy emitter in the form of one weapon at any given time, although you can freely switch between them as the situation demands." needs to be adjusted somehow to allow for a different weapon per hand.

Yeah, that line is probably going to go no matter what happens at this point.

Quote
Speaking of stealing things from Pathfinder's Soulknife...

Potential feat ideas (just throwing things out there).

  -  A feat to let you shape an energy beam into a shield (say light/heavy/tower?  or maybe just heavy.) with no ASF/ACP that gets the same enhancement bonus that the energy beam does (maybe to attack and damage if you can shield bash with it?).

  - Energy Beam Finesse: Like weapon finesse but now you can finesse your two-handed energy sword if you want.

  -  Feat to make energy armor?  I don't know.

Interesting ideas. Given the weightlessness and the ability to use Wis for attack rolls anyways, I was thinking of making all melee energy beam weapons finessable anyways.

As for energy armor/shields, I'm hesitant because making your own arsenal is supposed to be the Dreadnought's domain (see Riot Shield, Power Suit, and a few more modules I'm drumming up ideas for). Energy Warriors, at least on the equipment side of things, were supposed to focus on a single, awesome energy weapon.

Hm, I'm not sure of your policies for this, but I had an idea for a PoC Base Class, which I suppose I'll detail in a spoiler for future reference (and feedback).

Princely Detective
(click to show/hide)

Policies how? Do you mean for a suggestion for more PoC content, or for a class you'd like to make yourself?

Regardless, it certainly looks like an interesting concept. Is that name a reference to something?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: condochimp on June 04, 2013, 05:10:38 PM
@Garryl: Ah, sorry for not getting back earlier. I'd meant that I want to make it myself, but wasn't certain how you felt about people making content for your subsystem. Oh, and it is indeed a reference! More specifically, to the Persona 4 video game and its spin-offs/sequels. uvu
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 04, 2013, 05:16:02 PM
If you're getting rid of scaling damage entirely I don't see any non-flavor reason not to let the Energy Warrior make his energy beam into whatever weapon he is proficient with.

Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on June 04, 2013, 05:58:16 PM
condochimp, I'm pretty sure he'll be OK with it; he had no problem with me making a few feats.

I'm thinking of writing up a set of (basic) rules for Trap Modules.

Essentially, you give them basic trap statistics... but you use Modules with preset amounts of energy in them to model how they work.

So, for example, you could have an "arrow" trap which uses Advanced Targeting "activated" in its virtual Visor socket.

I would probably give it an Energy Emitter socket and a Visor socket.

Then, there can be rules for you to "jack in" to an area's defense network, and then mess around with the traps; move around Energy, unsocket some modules, change their instructions, etc, etc.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 04, 2013, 06:15:52 PM
@Garryl: Ah, sorry for not getting back earlier. I'd meant that I want to make it myself, but wasn't certain how you felt about people making content for your subsystem. Oh, and it is indeed a reference! More specifically, to the Persona 4 video game and its spin-offs/sequels. uvu

Go right ahead. Just post it and let me know when it's ready, I'll add a link in the index.

condochimp, I'm pretty sure he'll be OK with it; he had no problem with me making a few feats.

Speaking of which, how do you want to handle those feats? Do you want to post them yourself in a new thread? At the end of the existing feats thread? Do you want me to just add them into the main feats post? I'd rather not leave them hidden in the middle of this discussion thread where they will get lost.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on June 04, 2013, 06:18:14 PM
Just add 'em to the main post. It centralizes everything, after all.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 04, 2013, 06:41:58 PM
Alright. I'd like to tweak the wording a bit, though, if that's alright?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on June 04, 2013, 08:53:48 PM
Go right ahead; I acknowledge my lack of perfection.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 04, 2013, 10:05:27 PM
Um, some oddities I'm trying to puzzle out with Temporary Craftsmanship.
- Was the widget supposed to count against the number of modules you or the user can have active at once? I had expected it to count against yours, but not the user's. However, the wording indicates the opposite. If it doesn't count against yours, there's nothing stopping you from activating every module on your list as a widget, thus letting anyone freely switch around what modules (without energy) they're using.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on June 04, 2013, 10:23:30 PM
Might as well have it take up yours as well as theirs.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 04, 2013, 10:56:54 PM
Wouldn't that mean you'd be spending 2 modules to get just 1 inferior module? Plus it means you can't give your widgets to non-activators, which I thought was the whole point.

Edit: How about it counts against you, but not against the user. That way, you're really giving away your activating abilities. First modules (Temporary Craftsmanship), then energy and sockets (Pocket Industry). Effortless Invention is somewhere in the middle there where it lets the module be attached and lets energy be allocated to it by the widget's user, which is actually kinda out of character with the other two feats.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on June 04, 2013, 11:41:14 PM
It works for me.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 05, 2013, 01:28:33 AM
How's this look?
(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on June 05, 2013, 03:28:52 AM
Looking a lot better than my originals (clunky wording in mine, you know?)
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: condochimp on June 05, 2013, 09:19:19 PM
I'm thinking of writing up a set of (basic) rules for Trap Modules.

Essentially, you give them basic trap statistics... but you use Modules with preset amounts of energy in them to model how they work.

So, for example, you could have an "arrow" trap which uses Advanced Targeting "activated" in its virtual Visor socket.

I would probably give it an Energy Emitter socket and a Visor socket.

Then, there can be rules for you to "jack in" to an area's defense network, and then mess around with the traps; move around Energy, unsocket some modules, change their instructions, etc, etc.

Hm... The way I'm seeing this, is that you use Craft (Trapmaking) and some type of Craft (Cybernetics) thing to make a Cybertrap-thing, which has an Energy Emitter socket and one socket of your highest accessible level/two of the one lower or something? Then you carry it around and integrate it with an an area's network type-thing. Then you do the "jack-in" type thing with a full-round action, and do the "move around Energy, unsocket some modules, change their instructions, etc, etc." thing. That sound OK? uvu
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on June 05, 2013, 10:30:20 PM
That sounds like an idea.

Set the emitter damage to scale as part of the craft check, and Bob's your uncle!

I'll drop some rules in later.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: condochimp on June 15, 2013, 05:59:38 AM
Alright, after quite a while, I actually got around to making the Princely Detective. I'll be making more Modules later, for now, I kind of have to get some rest, because I started this ordeal nine hours ago and only took a few breaks. quq
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 15, 2013, 03:13:44 PM
I like what I'm seeing so far. Let me know when it's ready for critiquing and editing.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 17, 2013, 05:00:17 PM
Changes since May 26. Some of these are already up, the rest I'll be posting some time today.

Cybernetics and Activating
- Fire-based module effects now have rules for functioning underwater. Previously, as supernatural abilities, they simply did not work.
- Energy capacity at level 30+ now follows the same formula as below level 30.

Cyberneticist
- Integrated Module Focus changed to Attached Module Focus.

Energy Warrior
- Now has martial weapon proficiency.
- Energy Beam ability revamped.

Modules
- New modules: Eternal Engine, Fire Field, Lightning Rod, Psychosynthesis, Spell Breaker
- Completed modules: Arcanosynthesis, Nightmare Ward, Nova Beam, Rezbit Controller, Scrambler, Terranean Resonator, Uttercold Core
- Armor Class is now properly capitalized in module descriptions.
- Saving Throw lines in module descriptions should be more accurate now.
- Several minor typos fixed.
- Biofeedback (hands) rewritten.
- Chrono Beam grants a competence bonus to initiative instead of insight. Damage bonus from energy allocation increased.
- Dark Beam's base and energy effects rewritten.
- Disruption Crescent (visor) ability to bypass or negate critical immunity increased from 25% to 50%.
- Energy Weapon is now WIP.
- Exploration Kit now has the Equipment descriptor.
- G-Lifter now has the Equipment descriptor and is a Dreadnought module.
- Hammer Beam (energy emitter) now affects objects.
- Impulse Soles now has the Equipment descriptor.
- Kinetic Accelerator (arms) now affects objects.
- Light Beam's base effect rewritten.
- Missile Launcher now has the Equipment descriptor.
- Plasma Beam now allows you to set yourself on fire as a free action instead of a standard action.
- Quake Stompers now has the Equipment descriptor.
- Universal Translator is now WIP.

Feats
- Added the Heavy Energy Beam feat.
- Added Amechra's Technological Aesthetic, Temporary Craftsmanship, Effortless Invention, and Pocket Industry feats.

Spells and Other Magic Systems
- Added the following new spells: Phantom HUD, Touchless Screen, Virtual Desktop
- Added the following new spells, based on spells and powers from D20 Modern's Urban Arcana sourcebook: Burglar's Buddy, Dataread, Degauss, Magic ID, Power Device, Recharge, Relay Text
- Added the following new powers: Networking, Psychic Interface
- Added the following new powers, based on spells and powers from D20 Modern's Urban Arcana sourcebook: Call Ammunition, White Noise
- Added the Cybernetics mantle.

Races
- Urtraghusian Space Pirates renamed to Urtragian Space Pirates.

Equipment and Items
- Increased nanorifle base damage from 1d10 to 1d12.
- Increased pulse cannon base damage from 1d6 to 1d8.
- Armor weights and costs are now complete.
- Added Light Combat Armor.
- Added rules for magical properties created as cybernetic properties.
- Internal Biosensor armor gadget now requires an onboard computer.
- Added Tempest Hardened miscellaneous gadget.

Creatures and Monsters
- Observer wireless communication range increased from 100 feet to 1 mile.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 17, 2013, 05:38:51 PM
Nice changelog!

I look forward to seeing exactly what's going to happen with Energy Beam.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 17, 2013, 06:12:07 PM
You can see it right now. Everything except the latest module changes are up.

Edit: Made a minor change to the wording of Energy Beam just to clarify how it works with Weapon Finesse.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 17, 2013, 06:26:39 PM
It wasn't changed when I looked before making that post.   :P
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 17, 2013, 06:32:36 PM
Of course it wasn't. I only put it up just now when I read you wanted to see it. Why would I ever do anything before two minutes after the last minute? :)

Speaking of which, modules are up. That takes care of everything except the module lists themselves. I'm rewriting my program that generates them so it'll give a little better information and so it can ignore the (WIP) modules.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on June 17, 2013, 07:43:33 PM
Do tell about this program of yours?

Seriously, something that generates formatted bbcode that I wouldn't have to write would be lovely.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 17, 2013, 08:16:13 PM
Do tell about this program of yours?

Seriously, something that generates formatted bbcode that I wouldn't have to write would be lovely.

Yeah, that actually sounds pretty cool.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Jackinthegreen on June 17, 2013, 08:31:15 PM
For the Universal Translator, maybe have a hands attachment that allows translating and "speaking" signed languages.

Alternately, having some sort of boost to identify a spell based on its somatic and/or verbal components might be nice, and grant a save bonus against correctly-identified spells.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 17, 2013, 08:56:33 PM
Do tell about this program of yours?

Seriously, something that generates formatted bbcode that I wouldn't have to write would be lovely.

Yeah, that actually sounds pretty cool.

It's just a simple parsing program that reads the (already-formatted-for-BBCode) module listings, parses out the different parts, and spits out some statistics and class module lists in that table you see at the beginning of the modules thread. Because I'm careful to keep everything consistently-formatted, the parsing is pretty easy and it can look for key words and lines, like which classes, descriptors, and sockets each module has listed. It's not a miracle cure for table-making or anything, it just does this one thing I designed it for.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 17, 2013, 10:55:56 PM
I'm trying to work out some sort of metamagic-type effect for modules. I have two main ideas.

1) Metasockets. Spend a feat to get a metasocket (and a single free attachment to it, like with the Access Socket feats). Any modules attached to a metasocket gains a benefit, but has a lower energy capacity. Since it's already attached to a socket, you also can't attach the module to another socket. Only modules can be attached to metasockets. Different metasockets provide different benefits at the cost of different amounts of energy capacity.
(click to show/hide)

2) Metaenergy. Spend a feat to get a point of metaenergy. In addition to functioning as normal energy, any module with metaenergy allocated to it gains a benefit, but has a lower energy capacity (if this drops the energy capacity to 0, you obviously can't allocate the metaenergy to it since the reduced energy capacity would boot the metaenergy out). Different types of metaenergy provide different benefits. Metaenergy can only be allocated to modules.
(click to show/hide)

Metaenergy is obviously a more player-friendly option, given that it has a bonus as a side effect (+1 energy) instead of a penalty (module can't be attached to any other socket). Metaenergy is also easier to combine, given that you can just allocate multiple types of metaenergy to a single module (assuming your energy capacity is high enough). It's more fluid because you can reallocate on the fly, as opposed to deciding when you refresh your energy to make socket attachments. Finally, it's easier to make it expandable; each time you take the feat, you can just gain 1 more point of the metaenergy. I don't know if this makes it better or just trickier to balance. Or maybe I need a middle ground. Thoughts?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 17, 2013, 10:57:09 PM
I'm not sure which way would be better to go.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: condochimp on June 18, 2013, 01:04:37 PM
OK, in regards to the Meta-cybernetics Feats, I'd prefer a sort of middle ground. Also, about the Princely Detective, I made some modifications and clarifications and formatting fixes, so she SHOULD be ready for critique now. Give it your most intense critique, she'll need it!
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 18, 2013, 04:50:09 PM
OK, in regards to the Meta-cybernetics Feats, I'd prefer a sort of middle ground.

Me too. Any ideas? I could do it like the Improved Energy Capacity feat (just pick a module when you refresh your energy). That would probably be the easiest and clearest way to do it.

Quote
Also, about the Princely Detective, I made some modifications and clarifications and formatting fixes, so she SHOULD be ready for critique now. Give it your most intense critique, she'll need it!

I'm not going to cover minor typos and wording that is inconsistent with other PoC classes and terms. That can be dealt with later when things are more firm.

I'm looking through it. The first thing that jumps out at me is the energy pool. It's way too large at the lower levels. As a general rule, you want the energy pool to be around 50% of the total energy capacity of your modules and other class-granted energy receptacles, and probably never more than about 75% of capacity. Otherwise, you remove one of the major mechanics, allocating your limited energy pool. On top of that, too much energy (or modules, but that's fine in this case) at levels 1-3 makes the class too good as a dip class for other cybernetic classes. I'd recommend dropping the energy pool to somewhere between the Energy Warrior and the Cyberneticist. I'd also recommend altering the module progression to be the same as the Energy Warrior, just for consistency (at present, it appears to be almost exactly the same, but delayed 2 levels).
(And I'm assuming that it's supposed to be 11 energy at level 7, not 41? Also probably supposed to be 4 modules, not 5.)

Try to fill those dead levels (1st, 4th, 7th, 8th, 11th, and 17th) with some class features. In particular, make sure you have something (or a pair of minor somethings) at 1st level. Maybe something to do with Wisdom, as it's otherwise used only for Countershield HP and initiative (for which you have to wait until level 14). While Wisdom may be useful later on, you do not, at present, have any strong reason to want it until later levels. Given the skillful nature of the class, I could also recommend granting Trapfinding, Track, and/or Urban Tracking.

As detectives, I'm surprised the skill list doesn't have more information-gathering skills (Intimidate, Gather Information, Sense Motive, Search, Knowledge (local), Knowledge skills in general, etc.). I could also see adding Open Lock and Disable Device to the list, especially given the trap-based class features. I'm especially surprised that Knowledge (architecture and engineering) isn't on the list given that Cybertraps specifically asks for that skill check.

Why no proficiency with any melee weapons? I'd expect at least simple weapons. Everyone but the Monk, Wizard, and Druid gets the full gamut of them.

I'm having trouble understanding how Cybertraps work, exactly. Could you explain it to me, and maybe we can work on some clearer wording? Also note that the Energy Warrior's Energy Beam ability was changed significantly in the most recent update, so you may need to alter how Cybertraps use that.

With the Assistance socket, do allies gain the benefit of energy you have allocated to the module, or do they need to allocate their own energy. Can they even allocate their own energy?

Countershield needs a duration. Its action is supposed to be a full-round action, correct?
   The ability sounds more like a supernatural ability than an extraordinary one (if you change it, don't forget to explicitly state that it's still affected by damage reduction despite being supernatural).
   "Close" range will need to be defined here since caster level doesn't exist for extraordinary abilities. Personally, I'd leave it as a fixed radius (say, 15 or 30 feet), possibly increasing through class features at later levels.
   The defensive aspect of the Countershield seems minimal. It's roughly equal to 1 hp/level + 2x Wis mod. While that might be significant at lower levels where it can absorb one or two hits, it lacks the scaling to keep up at higher levels. Maybe add your Wisdom modifier once again to the shield's hp every 4 or 5 levels beyond 3rd? On a related note, I'd also suggest changing the formula to level + 2x Wis mod (if positive) instead of level + Wis score - 10. It'll make it easier to calculate, not having to work with both addition and subtraction, and working with ability modifiers that are already used by all sorts of other abilities instead of raw ability scores.

Further Assistance seems like it scales up to a mildly excessive number of modules. I'd recommend only 3 modules by level 20, possibly 4. Either way, I'd suggest spreading them out a bit more evenly across the class levels (say, 1 module at 2nd, then 2 at 10th and 3 at 18th, or if you go with a total of 4 modules then add them at 2nd, 8th, 14th, and 20th, maybe).

Do you want me to look at the modules yet?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on June 20, 2013, 03:49:44 PM
I have an idea for a PrC that makes Energy Overchanneling super-amazing-awesome.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 20, 2013, 03:52:14 PM
Garryl, how finished would you say that the three base classes are?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 20, 2013, 07:04:28 PM
I have an idea for a PrC that makes Energy Overchanneling super-amazing-awesome.

I'm intrigued and would like to hear more. (Especially because I realized a few days ago that Energy Overchanneling is nigh-useless on its own until you have an energy capacity of at least 3 or 4, depending on if you're comparing it to +1 or +2 energy for a feat.)

Garryl, how finished would you say that the three base classes are?

Pretty much finished, I expect. The Energy Warrior is most likely to change, mostly if the new Energy Beam doesn't work out. The Cyberneticist and Dreadnought are right where I want them, though. The only changes I can conceive of making are adding in a few more Battle Talents to pick from, or possibly tweaking at what levels the Cybernticist abilities and extra uses are granted. I don't have any changes actually planned, and that's pretty much the extent of what I'm willing to alter at all at this point. Why do you ask?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on June 20, 2013, 07:35:40 PM
One of the basic features of the PrC would be adding your levels in the PrC to your Activator level for the purposes of whatever module you are enhancing.

Beyond that, I'd probably throw in something where you can use it to attach the module to an available socket as part of the same action.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 20, 2013, 11:30:42 PM
I ask because if I get the chance I'd like to play one.  :)
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on June 25, 2013, 09:14:04 AM
May I ask why the whole "treat the Missile Launcher as if it were your Energy Beam" Energy Emitter attachment is part of the Ice Spreader?

Shouldn't it be part of the Missile Launcher?

It kinda bugs me that you have to invest 3 modules into this; the Ice Beam isn't even very good when applied to the Missile Launcher! The Spazer Beam makes me drool, though, especially if you make your Missile Launcher fire 5 seeker missiles...
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 25, 2013, 10:56:18 AM
May I ask why the whole "treat the Missile Launcher as if it were your Energy Beam" Energy Emitter attachment is part of the Ice Spreader?

Shouldn't it be part of the Missile Launcher?

It kinda bugs me that you have to invest 3 modules into this; the Ice Beam isn't even very good when applied to the Missile Launcher! The Spazer Beam makes me drool, though, especially if you make your Missile Launcher fire 5 seeker missiles...

There are a number of reasons that Ice Spreader's energy beam effect isn't part of Missile Launcher.
- For a time, Missile Launcher wasn't even an Energy Warrior module.
- Missile Launcher already has 3 attachments. It doesn't need to break the mold and add a 4th. If it did, it would be a sole exception, and I'd feel compelled to make more modules like it.
Two is a number, right?

What's so special about Spazer Beam with 5 seeker missiles? The 3 AoE beams (Spazer, Shadow, and Flare) only function 1/round, regardless of how many attacks you make. Is it in some other combination that I haven't noticed?

On a related note, I'd completely forgotten about Ice Spreader's Energy Emitter ability. Does it still work with the new Energy Beam rules? I think so, but I'd like to be sure. Does it need text clarifying that the missiles aren't masterwork? Is it a can of beans I don't want to even open up and thus should be removed?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on June 25, 2013, 12:12:42 PM
I didn't notice the 1/round thing. Darn.

I think allowing them to enchant the missile (or just use Energy Beam stuff) is just fine. You could make that "attachment" a feat...
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 27, 2013, 09:23:12 AM
The first draft of Phazon mechanics for the Metroid adaptation are up.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on July 03, 2013, 12:46:14 AM
I'm trying, and failing, to come up with new module ideas for the Energy Warrior. Part of it, I feel, is that the EW doesn't have a distinct shtick other than Energy Beam (which is already well-covered). The Cyberneticist's modules are crazy technology things, the Dreadnought's modules are the tools of war, but the Energy Warrior's? Does anyone have any ideas about this?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Jackinthegreen on July 05, 2013, 01:25:33 AM
Got a question about refreshing energy and such.  The thread states:

Quote
At the beginning of the day, or at any point of it that you have a free hour, you can refresh your energy. When you do so, you may choose which modules you want to have active for the day and which socket attachments you wish to have for the day.

At first I was thinking "Woohoo, refresh energy and modules any time there's a free hour, any number of times a day."  And then I figured you only meant it for once a day and after a full night's rest, yes?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on July 05, 2013, 02:36:21 AM
Got a question about refreshing energy and such.  The thread states:

Quote
At the beginning of the day, or at any point of it that you have a free hour, you can refresh your energy. When you do so, you may choose which modules you want to have active for the day and which socket attachments you wish to have for the day.

At first I was thinking "Woohoo, refresh energy and modules any time there's a free hour, any number of times a day."  And then I figured you only meant it for once a day and after a full night's rest, yes?

Nope. Your first assumption was the correct one. The actual, in-depth rules for refreshing your energy are a fair bit further down. Just 1 hour of reasonably uninterrupted concentration, no limits, any number of times per day, even if you've been up for 72 hours straight or whatever. I try to only write what I mean.

Here are the pertinent bits:
Refreshing Energy
   Refreshing energy requires 1 hour of concentration or meditation. Refreshing energy requires enough peace, quiet, and comfort for proper concentration. Your surroundings need not be luxurious, but they must be free from overt distractions, such as combat raging nearby or other loud noises.  Exposure to inclement weather prevents the necessary concentration, as does any injury or failed saving throw you might experience while refreshing your energy. You do not need access to any materials to refresh your energy. You can refresh your energy any number of times per day, as long as you spend the required amount of time each time you do so.

On a related note, would the layout be better if the energy refreshment rules were up top? I wanted to put the rules for actually doing things first so you don't get lost in the nitty gritty mechanical details when reading it, but refreshing energy might be important enough to warrant coming much earlier in the page. Then again, the overview at the top has the important parts, the rest is just details about how those play out.  Or maybe it would be better to remove the potentially-confusing "At the beginning of the day, or at any point of it that you have a free hour" line and replace it with just "Whenever you have a free hour"?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Jackinthegreen on July 06, 2013, 07:47:00 PM
Yeah, I'd simply go with "Whenever you have a free hour."

And good to know it can be refreshed more often than once a day.  The flexibility is much welcomed given how some of the modules aren't exactly combat-oriented and such.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on July 06, 2013, 07:50:59 PM
So...

Could I bother you with a request for Apprentice Level progressions for the classes you've got here?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on July 06, 2013, 09:08:38 PM
I will ask you one last time, Amechra, please get out of my head. I was just thinking about those the other day.

By the way, whatever happened to that game you were planning to use Apprentice Levels for?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on July 08, 2013, 07:47:28 AM
And leave the cushy lair I set up? No!

As for the game, it kinda... never went anywhere but my head. It will be run someday, though!
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on August 04, 2013, 11:52:43 PM
Just some interesting statistics you may be interested in. I went through all the non-WIP modules currently posted and recorded all of their numerical bonuses, senses, movement modes, immunities, etc. and recorded them in a table. You can see it here, on Google Docs (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhjQS5q4zBobdHUzclM4N1F0dUY1TzFhQlNJdTV0VWc&usp=sharing) (formatting is still a teensy bit messed up).

Edit: Formatting should be not messed up now. Also, added a couple things I missed in the first pass.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on August 05, 2013, 08:52:20 AM
Nice!
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on August 05, 2013, 04:19:30 PM
Added a sheet with all of the special attacks, color coded by damage type.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on August 27, 2013, 10:42:19 PM
In the index, both the Special Ability Types and Universal Special Abilities links lead to the Actions in Combat page.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on August 28, 2013, 12:06:27 AM
Thanks for catching that. They were originally in the same thread, but I split them off recently and forgot to update the links. Whoops.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on September 11, 2013, 02:19:25 AM
So, just a thought on further modules for the Energy Warrior. Does building up the combo idea sound interesting? There are a few "combo" modules already (requiring one or more existing modules to already be active and granting additional benefits to those modules or thematically aligned with them), and Energy Warriors have a decent affinity for the concept (combining multiple energy beam types, and mechanically having the most modules active of all classes). Any thoughts?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 11, 2013, 10:10:15 AM
If you feel inspired then go for it. :)
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on August 22, 2014, 05:39:27 PM
This appears to be my annual return to working on this. I just went through every single file I have on my computer relating to PoC, updated the formatting, and finished off some of the things I'd left in half-finished states.

New content highlights include 3 modules, 11 feats, 2 races, a dozen or so mundane items, 2 gadgets, and nonmagical raising of the dead through cryogenic preservation and revival.

I'll probably get to actually uploading everything over the next I dunno how long while.

August 22, 2014
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on August 22, 2014, 05:40:56 PM
I was just looking at this thread within the past hour and lamenting that everything wasn't fully finished.   :lmao
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on August 22, 2014, 05:43:50 PM
It still isn't, but it's a bit closer now. Given that there's something like 100 modules already, I'm half-tempted to scrap most of the ones I haven't finished yet and move on to other things.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on August 22, 2014, 05:44:43 PM
It still isn't, but it's a bit closer now. Given that there's something like 100 modules already, I'm half-tempted to scrap most of the ones I haven't finished yet and move on to other things.

If that's your blocker then yeah, unless you explicitly see gaps that you want to fill move on to something else.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on August 22, 2014, 07:37:16 PM
Everything's up, plus a couple more. Like an NPC class, or a pair of Phazon templates, or some Cybernetic grafts.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on August 25, 2014, 06:01:24 PM
I'm excited about how much new work is happening but I haven't had time to look at most of it.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on August 25, 2014, 06:21:30 PM
To be fair, I've been working on this (and related homebrew) something like 8 hours a day for the past week. This being my last week off before my masters program officially starts seems to have kicked me into overdrive.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on August 25, 2014, 11:53:03 PM
Don't worry, I'm happy stuff is being churned out even if it looks like I'll never really get to use it.  I'm just explaining why I haven't been reviewing anything yet.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on August 26, 2014, 10:53:26 PM
If you're happy, I'm happy.

Speaking of getting to use this, I'm considering writing a mini-campaign based on the beginning of Metroid Prime 3. That little sequence from the ship through the defense of Norion seems like it would work as a nice, quick adventure. If you're interested in playtesting I could focus more on that. I could also use a hand statting up NPCs if you want to help.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on August 26, 2014, 11:26:43 PM
I'm happy making NPCs and I'm happy playtesting stuff but I haven't played Metroid Prime 3 so I'm not sure what you're talking about. :p

Sometime within the next couple of days I'll take a look at all the new stuff and then you can tell me how else I can help out.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on August 27, 2014, 01:02:10 AM
I'm happy making NPCs and I'm happy playtesting stuff but I haven't played Metroid Prime 3 so I'm not sure what you're talking about. :p

There are plenty of playthroughs and walkthroughs on Youtube and elsewhere if you're curious, but the short version is...
- Samus and other bounty hunters meet on a Galactic Federation space ship to discuss the federation's pirate problem du jour when a space pirate fleet warps in and attacks the ship and the planet.
- Get off the ship, get down to the planet, and help recapture and reactivate the disabled planetary defense systems before the pirates drop a Phazon leviathan onto the planet, while fighting off the pirate boarding and landing troops that get in the way.

Quote
Sometime within the next couple of days I'll take a look at all the new stuff and then you can tell me how else I can help out.

Thanks a bunch. Just proofreading and critiquing and making sure that everything is sane is a big help.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on August 27, 2014, 10:40:49 AM
Okay, here's a jumble of thoughts about what you've been putting up recently.  If I don't comment on something it is probably fine.


It's nice to see your aura rules making it to other homebrew.

Dueling Visor module: The concept of not being able to see a creature you have line of sight to is really weird even if the rules allow for that situation.

New Heal skill uses: How much does a cryorevival lab cost?  How about ppropriate tools and materials for Cryogenic Preparation?

I'm iffy about Defensive Shot.  I realize that DC 15 Tumble isn't that high, it just feels weird to possibly fail at using a feat that doesn't require a saving thow.

The Energy Warrior's energy beam ability still says: You can only use your energy emitter in the form of one weapon at any given time.  This means that you can't use Energy Claws and Energy Fangs at the same time.  This saddens me.

The Inventor looks interesting, I'll have to dig into the crafting feats sometime.

Aim is interesting and different than I expected.  Quick Aim + Sniper can be nasty when used by someone with precision dice against a target so far away he doesn't even know who's attacking him..

Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on August 27, 2014, 07:41:23 PM
Okay, here's a jumble of thoughts about what you've been putting up recently.  If I don't comment on something it is probably fine.


It's nice to see your aura rules making it to other homebrew.



Quote
Dueling Visor module: The concept of not being able to see a creature you have line of sight to is really weird even if the rules allow for that situation.

You can see them. They just get the +2 bonus for attacking a creature that can't see back, without the other goodies of invisibility (like denied Dex). It's like that instead of an AC penalty like that Diamond Mind stance so that if you really can't see them (ex: blinded, they're invisible, etc.) the bonus doesn't stack. Eh, screw it. I'm removing the bonus enemies get entirely. The module's basically just double Dodge, which is perfectly reasonable (Power Beam is +1 deflection vs. everyone, Phazite Plating is +2 natural armor but does 1d6/minute unless you're protected). That will also let me simplify the wording a fair bit.

Quote
New Heal skill uses: How much does a cryorevival lab cost?  How about ppropriate tools and materials for Cryogenic Preparation?

5000 gp for the lab (plus another 5000 gp per revival). It's 6000 gp for a permanent cryotube and 50 gp for cryoprep kit, or 300 gp for a kit with a portable cryochchamber that lasts for only 3 days. They're listed among the mundane items, under Adventuring Gear (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8808.msg141017#msg141017).

Quote
I'm iffy about Defensive Shot.  I realize that DC 15 Tumble isn't that high, it just feels weird to possibly fail at using a feat that doesn't require a saving thow.

The idea was that it's like tumbling to avoid an AoO for movement, only instead you're avoiding the AoO for something else. Although then it should at least have the option to take a -5 penalty on the check to remove the attack roll penalty on a failure (which is like the part of tumbling where you're moving at half speed instead of full, making it not be a pure upside to use the skill).

I'm open to suggestions, but if you want me to just remove the chance of failure entirely, you'll have to convince me that a 1st-level feat that removes ranged attack AoOs perfectly is appropriate. I don't think it would be imbalanced or anything, it's just the kind of thing that's supposed to be a little more special than anyone's feat.

Quote
The Energy Warrior's energy beam ability still says: You can only use your energy emitter in the form of one weapon at any given time.  This means that you can't use Energy Claws and Energy Fangs at the same time.  This saddens me.

I'll see about making them work together. As long as you're spending two feats, you ought to get something good for it.

Quote
The Inventor looks interesting, I'll have to dig into the crafting feats sometime.

Coolio. Although half of them are just like your regular magic item crafting feats, and the other half are Amechra's creations that he was kind enough to convert to cybernetics; you've already seen their original Incarnum incarnations (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9725.0). I hope that helps you make sense of it a bit easier.

Quote
Aim is interesting and different than I expected.  Quick Aim + Sniper can be nasty when used by someone with precision dice against a target so far away he doesn't even know who's attacking him..

Kinda the point. If you're spending 4 feats on sniping (Point Blank Shot + Precise Shot + Quick Aim + Sniper), you ought to do it well. Although remember that you still only get that first attack in the full attack with aim bonuses unless you use your swift action to aim for a second attack; it still only boosts the first attack you make after aiming.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on August 27, 2014, 10:54:17 PM
I just noticed that I forgot the completion of the Mind Scanner, Omnitool, Stealth Field, and Universal Translator modules from a while back. I'd finished them some time over the last year and missed putting them in the change log.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on August 27, 2014, 11:11:04 PM
That reminds me...

Do you want me to make a copy of Soul-Factory Artifice for Cybernetics? Called something like Cottage-Industry Circuitry?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on August 28, 2014, 12:03:21 AM
How could I possibly say no to that?

Thanks, Amechra.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on August 28, 2014, 10:38:22 PM
August 28, 2014
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No wonder I'm having trouble thinking up new and cool abilities for the remaining modules. Including the various WIP modules, 7 Metroid modules, and a few more modules I'm trying to sketch out, PoC is (or will be) up to 100 modules! That's something like 3-400 distinct effects. I think the PHB has around 600 spells, to put it in context.

In any case, with the recent changes (being uploaded right now), there are 87 complete PoC modules and 6 complete Metroid modules, for a total of 93.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on August 28, 2014, 10:46:33 PM
Pshaw, steal effects from Percy. I'm sure he won't mind.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on August 28, 2014, 10:51:38 PM
Given that you already have more modules than there are soulmelds in MoI, I'm a little concerned about there being too many options if you're looking at tripling the current number of modules. 

Also, yeah, Percy has a few different sets of soulmelds running around.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on August 28, 2014, 11:09:02 PM
Given that you already have more modules than there are soulmelds in MoI, I'm a little concerned about there being too many options if you're looking at tripling the current number of modules. 

Also, yeah, Percy has a few different sets of soulmelds running around.

I am not tripling the number of modules. OH GOD NO I AM NOT NO WAY NO HOW! What I meant was that each module has multiple effects between the basic ability and the socket attachments, so with the ~100 modules I've gone through 300+ distinct effects' worth of abilities.

Edit: Side note, about how many soulmelds are there in MoI, anyways?

Pshaw, steal effects from Percy. I'm sure he won't mind.

What makes you think I haven't? We're largely drawing from the same sources, so there's a hell of a lot of overlap already, even before cross-pollination.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on August 29, 2014, 10:14:30 AM
Given that you already have more modules than there are soulmelds in MoI, I'm a little concerned about there being too many options if you're looking at tripling the current number of modules. 

Also, yeah, Percy has a few different sets of soulmelds running around.

I am not tripling the number of modules. OH GOD NO I AM NOT NO WAY NO HOW! What I meant was that each module has multiple effects between the basic ability and the socket attachments, so with the ~100 modules I've gone through 300+ distinct effects' worth of abilities.

Edit: Side note, about how many soulmelds are there in MoI, anyways?

Ohhhh, I thought you were talking about independent modules.

MoI soulmelds: by my count there are 89 but I was just counting from the table of contents so I might be off by a couple.  That also doesn't count whatever handful are splattered about in other books.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on August 29, 2014, 10:17:11 PM
MoI soulmelds: by my count there are 89 but I was just counting from the table of contents so I might be off by a couple.  That also doesn't count whatever handful are splattered about in other books.

There are 5 more online psionics-related soulmelds (about half of which are essentially reskins of existing melds) and 5 draconic melds in Dragon Magic. I think there are also some in Dragon magazine, but I'm not counting those. So 99 printed soulmelds, then. Excellent.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on September 02, 2014, 01:45:58 AM
I got back to town late, so I don't feel like putting things up tonight. Instead, I'll post the results of today's attempt to provide some meaningful healing with cybernetics, the Energy Transfer module (rewritten) and the Restoration Matrix module (new).



Energy Transfer
Descriptor: None
Classes: Cyberneticist, Energy Warrior
Prerequisites: None
Sockets: Arms, Utility
Saving Throw: None

This module allows you to transfer your bio-energy to others. As a standard action, you can designate a willing ally within 30 feet. You can transfer your hit points to the subject, and the subject's nonlethal damage to you. For every hit point transferred to the subject, she heals one hit point and you lose one hit point. Likewise, for every point of nonlethal damage transferred from the subject, she heals one point of nonlethal damage and you gain one point of nonlethal damage. This is not damage, so damage reduction, resistances, immunities, and other abilities do not influence the damage transferred. You can even use this to restore the hit points of undead, constructs, and other nonliving creatures, although this module lacks the power to revive dead or destroyed creatures. Regeneration does not convert lost hit points into nonlethal damage, although it can recover nonlethal damage that you transfer to yourself.

If you have any temporary hit points when you use this ability, you can choose to lose temporary hit points in place of some or all of the hit points you lose or nonlethal damage you gain. For each temporary hit point you lose, you lose one fewer hit point or gain one fewer point of nonlethal damage. The subject still regains the full amount of hit points and removes the full amount of nonlethal damage.

Each time you use this ability, you can transfer at total of up to 10 plus your activator level in hit points and points of nonlethal damage between yourself and the subject. You cannot transfer sufficient hit points to the subject or nonlethal damage to yourself to cause your hit points to become less than 1 or to cause your nonlethal damage to become greater than or equal to your hit points. Similarly, you cannot transfer more hit points than is necessary to heal all hit points the subject is missing, nor transfer more nonlethal damage than is necessary to remove all nonlethal damage the subject has.

If you are immune to nonlethal damage, you cannot transfer nonlethal damage to yourself.

If you expend 1 point of energy while using this ability, instead of transferring hit points and nonlethal damage, the subject simply heals that many hit points and points of nonlethal damage; you neither lose hit points nor gain nonlethal damage. Since you are not transferring hit points or damage, the healing provided is not limited by your health and abilities.

The link provided by this module only works one way. You cannot transfer the subjects hit points to you, nor your own nonlethal damage to the subject.

Energy: Each point of energy allocated to this module increases the maximum amount of damage transferred by 5 points and the range of the effect by 10 feet.

Socket (arms)
You can siphon energy from creatures you injure. Whenever you hit a creature with a melee or ranged attack, you can also choose to cause one negative level to that creature, which lasts for up to 1 hour. If you do, you gain one point of temporary energy and 5 temporary hit points, which last for up to 1 minute. If you use this effect multiple times, the temporary hit points stack, but the temporary energy does not. You can use this effect no more than once per round per point of energy allocated to this module. This is a form of energy drain.

Socket (utility)
You can also transfer some of the ability damage that your ally is suffering to yourself with this module's effect. For every point of ability damage transferred from the subject, she heals one point of ability damage to a single ability score of your choice and you gain one point of ability damage to the same ability score.

Each time you use this module's effect, for each ability score, you can transfer up to 1 point of ability damage per point of energy allocated to this module between yourself and the subject. You cannot transfer sufficient ability damage to reduce you to to less than 1 in a given ability score, nor sufficient to cause your hit points to become less than 1 or to cause your nonlethal damage to become greater than or equal to your hit points. Similarly, you cannot transfer more ability damage than is necessary to remove all ability damage the subject has to any given ability score.

If you have a nonability or are immune to ability damage to a given ability score, you cannot transfer damage to that ability score to yourself.

If you expend energy while using this ability, instead of transferring ability damage, the subject simply heals that many points of ability damage; you do not gain ability damage. Since you are not transferring ability damage, the healing provided is not limited by your health and abilities.



Restoration Matrix
Descriptor: None
Classes: Cyberneticist
Prerequisites: None
Sockets: Arms, Core, Utility
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)

While this module is active, you gain a +2 enhancement bonus on all Heal checks, and you can heal wounds with a touch.

As a standard action, you can touch a living creature. The subject is stabilized. If it has any caltrop wounds, bleeding wounds, or other wounds that are specially healed by cure spells or magical healing, they are also cured. The subject is also healed a number of hit points equal to your activator level, but this healing cannot raise its hit points to greater than half its maximum hit points. The full normal amount of nonlethal damage is still healed even if only some of the healing can be applied. This healing functions as a conjuration (healing) effect, although unlike cure spells it does not function through positive energy and does not deal damage to undead. An unwilling subject is allowed a Will save to negate the effect.

Energy: Each point of energy allocated to this module improves the bonus on Heal checks by 2 and increases the amount of healing provided by 5.

Socket (arms)
This module's effect can target up to 1 creature per activator level instead of applying by touch. All such creatures must be within 30 feet of you.

Socket (core)
The amount of healing provided by this module's effect is doubled. Additionally, the effect also immediately ends any and all of the following adverse conditions affecting the subject: ability damage, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, sickened, stunned, and poisoned. Any other effect that can be removed or influenced by a heal spell or similarly powerful magical healing is also affected by this module's effect. It does not, however, remove negative levels, restore permanently drained levels, or restore permanently drained ability score points.

Socket (utility)
The healing provided by this module's effect is no longer limited to half of the subject's maximum hit points. If you expend 1 point of energy, it also removes 1 negative level, cures all ability damage to a single ability score, or restores 1d4 points of ability ability drain to a single ability score.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 02, 2014, 10:30:42 AM
Energy transfer seems very complicated.  I know that a lot of that is to limit abuse, and I'm not really sure how to uncomplicate it.

I like Restoration Matrix.

Slightly off topic: I was looking at the Activate Module feat and it says "This does not count against your limited number of active modules."  Spending a feat to always be able to have a module active on top of your normal class modules seems a little strong, but that is in comparison to Incarnum which doesn't allow anything like that IIRC.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on September 02, 2014, 11:10:36 AM
Activate Module works in the same way that Shape Soulmeld gives you an extra soulmeld over the ones granted by your class or to let you shape a soulmeld at all if you aren't a meldshaper. Or, at least, the way I've always seen it played.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 02, 2014, 11:36:22 AM
Activate Module works in the same way that Shape Soulmeld gives you an extra soulmeld over the ones granted by your class or to let you shape a soulmeld at all if you aren't a meldshaper. Or, at least, the way I've always seen it played.

Shape Soulmeld adds it to your list of soulmelds, it still follows all restrictions about how many soulmelds you can have.  If a level 1 Incarnate has Shape Soulmeld (whatever), he can still only shape 2 soulmelds total even if one of them is the whatever soulmeld.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on September 02, 2014, 11:45:29 AM
Activate Module works in the same way that Shape Soulmeld gives you an extra soulmeld over the ones granted by your class or to let you shape a soulmeld at all if you aren't a meldshaper. Or, at least, the way I've always seen it played.

Shape Soulmeld adds it to your list of soulmelds, it still follows all restrictions about how many soulmelds you can have.  If a level 1 Incarnate has Shape Soulmeld (whatever), he can still only shape 2 soulmelds total even if one of them is the whatever soulmeld.

Having an extra module feels about worth a feat. You're still spending your other resources (energy, socket attachments) if you want more than just the basic effect, most of which are right around what a feat can (or should) give you.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 02, 2014, 12:11:34 PM
Activate Module works in the same way that Shape Soulmeld gives you an extra soulmeld over the ones granted by your class or to let you shape a soulmeld at all if you aren't a meldshaper. Or, at least, the way I've always seen it played.

Shape Soulmeld adds it to your list of soulmelds, it still follows all restrictions about how many soulmelds you can have.  If a level 1 Incarnate has Shape Soulmeld (whatever), he can still only shape 2 soulmelds total even if one of them is the whatever soulmeld.

Having an extra module feels about worth a feat. You're still spending your other resources (energy, socket attachments) if you want more than just the basic effect, most of which are right around what a feat can (or should) give you.

Fair enough.  I'm not arguing it, just wanted to make sure that you knew you were diverging from the "source material".
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on September 02, 2014, 02:16:11 PM
Here's a re-rewrite of the Energy Transfer module, this time more closely based on the original (itself based on the Empathic Transfer power). This should be a lot simpler, I hope.

Energy Transfer
Descriptor: None
Classes: Cyberneticist, Energy Warrior
Prerequisites: None
Sockets: Arms, Utility
Saving Throw: None

This module allows you to transfer your bio-energy to others. As a standard action, you can designate a willing creature within 30 feet. You can transfer your hit points to the subject. You can heal damage up to 10 points plus your activator level. The subject regains the chosen number of hit points, and you lose hit points equal to half that amount. You cannot heal damage that would reduce you to less than 1 hit point. This is not damage, so abilities you may have such as damage damage reduction and regeneration do not lessen or change this hit point loss. Likewise, even if you have immunity to the type of damage the target originally took, the transfer occurs normally and causes hit point loss to you. Like all magical healing, the subject heals an equal amount of nonlethal damage as lethal damage, although you do not gain nonlethal damage or lose additional hit points as a result of curing nonlethal damage.

This healing does not use positive or negative energy. Creatures of all types are affected equally. You can even use this to restore the hit points of undead, constructs, and other nonliving creatures, although this module lacks the power to revive dead or destroyed creatures.

You may expend 1 point of energy while using this ability. If you do, instead of transferring hit points, the subject simply heals that many hit points; you do not lose hit points.

Energy: Each point of energy allocated to this module increases the maximum amount of hit points transferred or healed by 10 points and the range of the effect by 10 feet.

Socket (arms)
You can siphon energy from creatures you injure. Whenever you hit a creature with a melee or ranged attack, you can also choose to cause one negative level to that creature, which lasts for up to 1 hour. If you do, you gain one point of temporary energy and 5 temporary hit points, which last for up to 1 minute. If you use this effect multiple times, the temporary hit points stack, but the temporary energy does not. You can use this effect no more than once per round per point of energy allocated to this module. This is a form of energy drain. Creatures slain due to excessive negative levels from this effect do not rise as wights.

Socket (utility)
When you heal an ally with this module, you can also transfer up to 1 point of ability damage per point of energy allocated to this module from the target to yourself. You cannot transfer damage that would reduce you to less than 1 hit point or to less than 1 in a given ability score. As with hit point damage, you gain the same amount of ability damage transferred this way. If expend energy while using this ability, instead of transferring ability damage, the subject simply heals the ability damage; you do not gain the ability damage.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 02, 2014, 02:41:45 PM
I like that a lot better, having it just plain heal nonlethal damage instead of transferring got rid of a couple of paragraphs and it looks a lot more cleaned up (and simpler).
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on September 05, 2014, 10:16:41 PM
September 5, 2014
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After a week, we can has update!
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on October 05, 2014, 02:46:36 AM
Not dead! Just back in university and starting my masters thesis program. I caught a bit of a second wind (is it still a second wind when it's your eighth one?), and finished the Autoturret Construction Kit module, which also resulted in me making a set of "turret" creatures. I'll post the actual material (along with a few other changes) when it's not so late at night.

Edit: All uploaded.

October 5, 2014
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Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on October 05, 2014, 08:43:28 PM
Turrets look interesting.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on October 05, 2014, 11:39:30 PM
I'm thinking about some or all of the following, although I doubt I'll have the patience to stat them all out.

- Turret Turret: Uses Autoturret Construction Kit to deploy hover turrets.
- Demolition Turret: Deploys Widow Mines similar to how the Autoturret Construction Kit deploys Autoturrets. Also attacks with Missile Launcher.
- Ambush Turret: Hides until enemies are near, then pops up to attack. Always has cover if emplaced. Maybe a template instead of a specific creature?
- Big Bertha: Colossal structure of heavy weapons. Railguns, pulse cannons, nanorifles, Storm Rifles, Mercury Bows, Dragonfire Rifles, heavy bolters, and so forth, complete with special ammunition. Multiweapon fighting line of feats to attack with them all.
- Spotter Turret: Intelligent. No weapons, but has improved senses and various abilities to allow other turrets to better attack. Can obtain a target lock, and grants bonuses to other turrets attacking that target.
- Repair Turret: Energy Transfer module lets it repair other turrets and allies.
- Shield Turret: Guardian Shield module creates a fortified area.
- Energy Turret (template): Can be applied to any module with an Energy Emitter socket effect. Creates a turret with that module active as an integrated module attached to the Energy Emitter socket and with the Energy Beam ability. See Plasma Turret for the basic concept. AL is variable, with HD, size, Str, Wis, energy pool, effective Energy Warrior level, CR, and so forth dependent on it, similar to a Living Spell.
- Grapple Turret: Use Grapple Lasso w/ Arms and/or Hands attachments (probably both). Uses greater reach to disable nearby foes with trip, disarm, and grapple (via Improved Grab from the Hands attachment).


Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on October 17, 2014, 09:28:38 PM
October 17, 2014
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I'm about largely through making the Energy Turret template, which is based on MM3's Living Spell template, for converting modules into turrets. Those with energy emitter attachments, anyways. It just needs construction costs for the turrets and some samples creatures.

(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Amechra on October 18, 2014, 06:46:15 AM
I just checked, and I couldn't find any Modules with an Energy Emitter Socket attachment that improved your base land speed. Just thought I'd mention.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on October 18, 2014, 11:34:20 AM
There aren't. But there might be in the future.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on October 30, 2014, 12:41:06 AM
October 30, 2014
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Updates! About half of the things on the list are fixes and quality tweaks. The other half (which is actually about 98% of the effort) is new stuff, a couple of modules and a bunch of grafts.

I have one or two more grafts planned, but there's already over a dozen. It's mostly just to round out the skin graft section, which has only the one option at present.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on October 30, 2014, 09:57:24 AM
I approve of the changes, and it's probably better that there's no ability to gain actions from modules.

I was going to make a six-million dollar man joke but couldn't find a suitable youtube clip...

How did I miss that you had grafts?  I like them, leg portal is interesting (but not in a bad way, bag of holding in a leg would totally be a thing).

Twilight reactor is neat.

Screaming cannon is kind of awesome, I like that there's an anti-undead weapon module.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on October 30, 2014, 06:09:26 PM
Excellent. Is there anything else you might like to see? Any effects that aren't covered or concepts that don't have much support?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 01, 2014, 12:00:08 PM
The last module in the weapon cycle is a ranged weapon that deals acid damage. Here's what I have so far. All that's left is the socket attachments. Any thoughts or comments?

Plague Spewer (WIP)
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Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 05, 2014, 03:33:40 PM
Sorry, I went on vacation the same day you asked for input.  I'll have to dig around when I'm at home and have time to look in depth at what's there.


The Plague Spewer looks good for the most part.  The first socket doesn't say that it uses Bioplague Delta, it just says "contracts the indicated disease".  The second socket should also say something about how it references the first one either for everything or for just the single attack per round part (Or you could copy/paste relevant information).
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 05, 2014, 03:55:35 PM
Revised version...

Plague Launcher
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Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 05, 2014, 04:06:21 PM
I like that one much better.

I see you dropped the dimensional anchor effect for the disease, I assume this was on purpose?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 05, 2014, 04:20:31 PM
Yup. Dimensional anchor on top felt a little too much on review.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 05, 2014, 04:59:02 PM
After thinking about it I agree.

Sometime within the next couple of days I'll look through all of the modules and see if there's anything that I'd like to see more of.  Feel free to nag me if I haven't mentioned anything by this weekend.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 05, 2014, 05:38:51 PM
While we're on the subject of modules, I've also been thinking about changing the way ranges work. Most ranged modules have some base range, plus extra range per energy allocated. Many of said ranges are very short (10 ft. + 5 ft./energy; mostly auras and point blank AoEs) or short (30 ft. + 10 ft./energy), but there are tons that are different, plus a few that emulate spells directly and thus use standardized spell ranges (with AL instead of CL). In short, ranges are inconsistent and generally painfully short. I've been thinking of converting most of them to the standard spell ranges using AL, saving energy-allocation-based ranges for the really short range auras (like Gravitic Amplifier), or even leaving them at fixed ranges (like Guardian Shield).
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 05, 2014, 08:22:46 PM
I do like the idea of standardization.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 05, 2014, 11:26:56 PM
This is what the new format will look like.

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Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 06, 2014, 10:30:37 AM
I like it except for the "Range: 0 ft" entries.  From a quick scan it looks like a lot of them aren't needed as they just add confusion.

Example: Arc Staff.  It grants you a quarterstaff.  I really don't think a range is needed on that.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 07, 2014, 01:32:21 AM
November 6, 2014
(click to show/hide)

Updated and uploaded.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 07, 2014, 10:03:34 AM
I think you're just trying to make sure I take a close look at all of the modules again.   :p
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 08, 2014, 05:19:22 PM
Okay, I've finally taken another good look at the modules.

Missing: true sight

Morph Ball and Wave Buster are still WIP, FYI.

Other than that I don't see any issues with anything.

Edit: What happens if you use Cyberforge Armguards/Guantlets to grant enhancement bonuses to something that already has one?  Do the bonuses stack or overlap or replace?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 08, 2014, 05:46:42 PM
Okay, I've finally taken another good look at the modules.

Missing: true sight

X-Ray Scope (core) has straight up true seeing as the spell. Advanced Targeting (support) also has a pseudo true seeing effect on your target lock.

Quote
Morph Ball and Wave Buster are still WIP, FYI.

Yeah, I'm still having trouble filling them in. For Morph Ball I have a good general idea of what I want, I'm just having trouble deciding on the details. With Wave Buster, I haven't a clue and I'm tempted to scrap it entirely.

Quote
Other than that I don't see any issues with anything.

Edit: What happens if you use Cyberforge Armguards/Guantlets to grant enhancement bonuses to something that already has one?  Do the bonuses stack or overlap or replace?

Like most typed bonuses, enhancement bonuses overlap. They do not stack, only the higher one counts. At least, that's the intent. Is there an ambiguity?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 08, 2014, 10:26:20 PM
Okay, I've finally taken another good look at the modules.

Missing: true sight

X-Ray Scope (core) has straight up true seeing as the spell. Advanced Targeting (support) also has a pseudo true seeing effect on your target lock.
Since that's the last module I must have just skimmed right past it.

Quote
Quote
Morph Ball and Wave Buster are still WIP, FYI.

Yeah, I'm still having trouble filling them in. For Morph Ball I have a good general idea of what I want, I'm just having trouble deciding on the details. With Wave Buster, I haven't a clue and I'm tempted to scrap it entirely.
Fair enough, just wanted to make sure they weren't forgotten.


Quote
Quote
Other than that I don't see any issues with anything.

Edit: What happens if you use Cyberforge Armguards/Guantlets to grant enhancement bonuses to something that already has one?  Do the bonuses stack or overlap or replace?

Like most typed bonuses, enhancement bonuses overlap. They do not stack, only the higher one counts. At least, that's the intent. Is there an ambiguity?

(click to show/hide)

I mainly ask because of the abilities that have a bonus equivalent.  If I have +4 enhancement bonus on my power suit and then +1 Ghost Touch SR 19 Armguards, does my power suit become +4 Ghost Touch, SR19 (and thus effectively an epic item at effective bonus +12)?

If so I'd be happier if there was a little blurb about it because I like things super specific.

Something like "The arm guards' true power is revealed when they are enhanced as armor, and subsequently used while wearing a suit of armor or a shield temporarily created, called, or summoned by a module, spell, power, supernatural ability, or similar effect. While the wearer wears such equipment, she may transfer the arm guards' enhancement bonus and abilities (hereafter referred to as its properties) to the created item as a swift action, suppressing them in the arm guards but allowing the armor or shield to benefit from them.  The enhancement bonus and properties overlap with any that the armor or shield already has. "
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 12, 2014, 12:33:21 PM
I had completely forgotten that I'd changed AL from being class-based to being a single ToB-IL-like number (total activating classes + 1/2 non-activating classes). I can't remember when I made the change, though. I need to go through http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8695.0 and update everything else that works with activator level, plus the feats (probably also removing the +1 AL/cybernetic feat, which is no longer as important), creature stat blocks, and a few other things that reference activator level.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 12, 2014, 12:38:50 PM
I forgot that too, I might be playing an activator in a PbP and that definitely changes things.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 12, 2014, 01:10:49 PM
Oslecamo's 20th level game, right? I'll try to post my thoughts of epic PoC as soon as I get anything meaningful working. I know I put some notes online  (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=3381.msg137519#msg137519)if you want a look at the ideas floating in my head.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 12, 2014, 02:36:48 PM
Oslecamo's 20th level game, right? I'll try to post my thoughts of epic PoC as soon as I get anything meaningful working. I know I put some notes online  (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=3381.msg137519#msg137519)if you want a look at the ideas floating in my head.

Right.  Who knows if the game will actually get to level 21 though. 

The basic thoughts for epic progression seem pretty reasonable.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 15, 2014, 02:17:16 AM
November 14, 2014
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Updated with the latest batch of changes. Not so important but still noteworthy, but the Dark and Light Beam modules got their damage types changed. That whole half pos/neg energy, half untyped thing always felt kludgy. Since I already have the amalgam damage rules in PoC, it seemed like a great alternative.

Edit: So, Nanshork, how's the character coming? Anything I can help with?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 15, 2014, 11:38:00 AM
All of the changes look good to me, thank you for adding the clarifications.


The character is in Limbo.  At this point in time i'm unsure if PoC can match up with Oslecamo's classes for sheer survivability.  It's still in the running though, and I'd probably end up making an Energy Warrior.  I'll keep you updated.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 16, 2014, 03:47:07 AM
Energy Warrior should be able to do a good job of survivability. There are plenty of miss chances available (Shadow Beam and the support attachment of Chrono Beam), you can pick up resistances without too much trouble, several immunities are available (Power Suit core = I'm a Construct), plus a few AC (Power Suit, Impulse Soles feet, Power Beam) and save bonuses (especially for Energy Warriors who have access to modules with all 3; by pure coincidence, Cyberneticists and Dreadnoughts only have the Ref save boosting modules). The Energy Tank module is good for a boatload of pure hp. I think Energy Warriors actually have the best access for pure numerical bonuses.

On another topic, I'm considering changing the Dreadnought's capstone. Doubling up on the intuition aura is fun, but it's not really 20th-level-worthy. I'm moving it down to 15h level and adding something else in its place (Equipment Bond +2 stays where it is). Here's what I have so far (after like 15 minutes of kinda sleepy braintstorming so good night).

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Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 16, 2014, 10:48:18 AM
It's more that Oslecamo's games end up being extremely brutal than anything else.  I missed the miss chances though (haha).


That sees like a really complicated capstone.  I'm not vetoing it outright but I'd like to see what you come up with when you aren't sleep brainstorming. :p
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 16, 2014, 01:18:34 PM
Shadow Beam (4 energy) plus Chrono Beam (support) is already a functional 44% miss chance (20% vs. non-attack targeted effects) and you take half damage from area attacks.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 16, 2014, 09:09:21 PM
Ohh, nice.  Okay, you're definitely tempting me to play a high level Energy Warrior.

Edit: I'll just do what I always do and see what the group needs.  If they need a big melee bruiser I won't go Energy Warrior, otherwise I will.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 17, 2014, 01:11:38 AM
Ohh, nice.  Okay, you're definitely tempting me to play a high level Energy Warrior.

Edit: I'll just do what I always do and see what the group needs.  If they need a big melee bruiser I won't go Energy Warrior, otherwise I will.

You can do melee bruiser, too. Snag a Monk's Belt (or a level in Monk) and you can do some major SAD for Wisdom. Monk says unarmed strikes are both manufactured (usable as an energy beam form) and natural (usable alongside the natural attack energy beam feats). Unarmed Strike energy beam + the Energy Claws and Energy Fangs feats means 6 attacks, all of which get Wis to attack and damage rolls, a +6 enhancement bonus, and your full 6d6 or 6d4 bonus energy beam damage from the emitter socket (assuming 6 energy allocated). You can double up on the bonus damage dice with Expanded Socket for 2 modules attached to your energy emitter at once (so up to 12d6 in bonus damage per attack, although it would eat up 12 points of energy allocations). Warp Beam is a good choice as it gives an attack bonus for your energy alongside the d4s of damage that are irresistible unless your target is Dimensional Anchored, something that high level foes usually try to avoid. With the Power Suit module's non-armor option you can get Wis to AC alongside full normal armor abilities with Cyberforge Arm Guards (and the various attachments provide great defenses, too).
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 17, 2014, 10:25:44 AM
Ohh, nice.  Okay, you're definitely tempting me to play a high level Energy Warrior.

Edit: I'll just do what I always do and see what the group needs.  If they need a big melee bruiser I won't go Energy Warrior, otherwise I will.

You can do melee bruiser, too. Snag a Monk's Belt (or a level in Monk) and you can do some major SAD for Wisdom. Monk says unarmed strikes are both manufactured (usable as an energy beam form) and natural (usable alongside the natural attack energy beam feats). Unarmed Strike energy beam + the Energy Claws and Energy Fangs feats means 6 attacks, all of which get Wis to attack and damage rolls, a +6 enhancement bonus, and your full 6d6 or 6d4 bonus energy beam damage from the emitter socket (assuming 6 energy allocated). You can double up on the bonus damage dice with Expanded Socket for 2 modules attached to your energy emitter at once (so up to 12d6 in bonus damage per attack, although it would eat up 12 points of energy allocations). Warp Beam is a good choice as it gives an attack bonus for your energy alongside the d4s of damage that are irresistible unless your target is Dimensional Anchored, something that high level foes usually try to avoid. With the Power Suit module's non-armor option you can get Wis to AC alongside full normal armor abilities with Cyberforge Arm Guards (and the various attachments provide great defenses, too).

That's actually pretty impressive.  I just have another build I want to use if I go melee bruiser.  It has Divine Rank 0.   :cool
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 18, 2014, 10:05:46 AM
You win, I've decided to play an Energy Warrior.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 18, 2014, 10:36:39 PM
What happens if an Energy Beam is a weapon with a reload speed such as a crossbow?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 19, 2014, 12:06:40 AM
The energy beam doesn't use ammunition, so the parts of reloading that involve putting in the ammunition are skipped. Unfortunately, that's a bit ambiguous when it comes to crossbows, as their reloading incorporates both replacing the ammunition and cranking back the bowstring.

Unless you can think of any weapon with which it would be imbalanced, I'd be inclined to explicitly make it such that you don't need to reload, period.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 19, 2014, 12:26:19 AM
I don't see it as particularly imbalanced, the worst that'll happen is dual wielding crossbows without worrying about how to reload.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 19, 2014, 01:39:12 AM
Just remember that light and heavy crossbows impose extra attack roll penalties for using them one-handed, in addition to TWF penalties. Consider some of the light and one-handed PoC firearms if you want to TWF with ranged weapons. They're shorter range and a little lower damage, though.

If you're thinking about TWF, don't forget about the Dual Weapon module.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 19, 2014, 10:12:39 AM
I'm back and forth on TWF, and I'd have to take the Dual Weapon module because I can't come up with the Dex requirements for the TWF tree. 

I was more pointing things out than telling you what I wanted to do with my character.  :p
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 21, 2014, 05:25:53 PM
I just realized a nerf that I didn't notice before.

Cyberforge gauntlets only affect a single energy weapon.  Therefore, if an Energy Warrior wants to dual wield they need a double weapon (and as far as I can tell you'd have to enchant the gauntlets as a double weapon so track the two ends separately).  No dual wielding energy crossbows for me, you can't wear two pairs of gauntlets.

I don't see an issue with this though, just felt like pointing it out.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 21, 2014, 08:30:33 PM
That's what enhancing the gauntlets with multiple property sets is for, you can transfer each set into a different weapon.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 21, 2014, 08:42:41 PM
That's what enhancing the gauntlets with multiple property sets is for, you can transfer each set into a different weapon.

Somehow that time I missed "A given pair of Cyberforge Gauntlets can be enhanced with any number of dormant sets of properties."  I know I'd noticed that before...
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 23, 2014, 07:09:35 PM
I'm working on a few racial feats for the PoC races. Here's what I have so far. Any comments or ideas? I'm searching for more feat ideas for Engi and Space Pirates, and I'm not too familiar with what cold spells and effects exist to offer Phrygisians.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 23, 2014, 07:39:02 PM
I don't see any issues with those feats.  I especially like Augmentation Mastery.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 25, 2014, 12:54:30 PM
The Power Suit core attachment doesn't negate precision damage, is this intentional?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 25, 2014, 02:09:51 PM
The Power Suit core attachment doesn't negate precision damage, is this intentional?

All printed precision damage is ineffective against targets immune to crits.

Technically, I don't think anything prevents what we call precision damage as a whole (and unless Rules Compendium added it, precision damage is just an unofficial term for the various related mechanics). Fortification armor stops crits and sneak attack, but doesn't specifically apply to, say, sudden strike and skirmish. They still get stopped (at least with heavy fortification) because they don't function against targets that are immune to crits.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 25, 2014, 02:24:18 PM
The Power Suit core attachment doesn't negate precision damage, is this intentional?

All printed precision damage is ineffective against targets immune to crits.

Technically, I don't think anything prevents what we call precision damage as a whole (and unless Rules Compendium added it, precision damage is just an unofficial term for the various related mechanics). Fortification armor stops crits and sneak attack, but doesn't specifically apply to, say, sudden strike and skirmish. They still get stopped (at least with heavy fortification) because they don't function against targets that are immune to crits.

It is officially defined in the rules compendium, and now that I'm looking it does say that immunity to critical hits also grants immunity to precision damage. 

I'd still prefer you explicitly write that, but that's just me being nitpicky.  :p
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 25, 2014, 02:37:45 PM
The Power Suit core attachment doesn't negate precision damage, is this intentional?

All printed precision damage is ineffective against targets immune to crits.

Technically, I don't think anything prevents what we call precision damage as a whole (and unless Rules Compendium added it, precision damage is just an unofficial term for the various related mechanics). Fortification armor stops crits and sneak attack, but doesn't specifically apply to, say, sudden strike and skirmish. They still get stopped (at least with heavy fortification) because they don't function against targets that are immune to crits.

It is officially defined in the rules compendium, and now that I'm looking it does say that immunity to critical hits also grants immunity to precision damage. 

I'd still prefer you explicitly write that, but that's just me being nitpicky.  :p

Sorry. I'm not planning to write it our explicitly because right now it's word-for-word what the Construct type traits give you. :p
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 28, 2014, 12:30:34 PM
Note to self: Consider adding text to the emitter effects of spazer, shadow, and flare beam so they still count as changing your beam's damage type for gaining energy resistance.
- Spazer: Damage from area attacks. (Probably covers too much.)
- Shadow: Damage from darkness effects.
- Flare: Damage from light effects.
This isn't strictly necessary or anything, but it might be nice to provide some benefit from the class feature when using these beams.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 29, 2014, 01:49:53 PM
Yeah, damage from area attacks is probably too much.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on February 11, 2015, 03:38:20 PM
To anyone who may be interested in this (Nanshork), it should be pretty obvious that I haven't been working on PoC in a while. I'm just popping in again to state for the record that I don't have any plans to continue in the foreseeable future. I've been drifting away from the D&D community in general for a while now, and this project in particular, too. I enjoyed developing it a lot, but my ideas are running out and the parts that are left are the parts I don't enjoy working on as much, anyways. Near as I can tell, it is in a very playable state, and has been for some time. For anyone who decides to play with this material, I hope you find it as enjoyable to play with as it was to make.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on February 11, 2015, 06:26:58 PM
Good luck in your endeavors with whatever you move on to.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on April 28, 2015, 04:58:01 AM
I was looking at this again recently and I found a whole bunch of changes I was in the middle of making when I burned out. Since most of them were pretty close to complete, I figured I'd finish them up and post them when I had the chance. They're not quite done yet, but here's the tentative change log for anyone interested.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 28, 2015, 11:38:18 AM
I'm interested.   :P
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Braininthejar on October 05, 2015, 07:07:39 PM
Actually, why are cybernetic constructs immune to critical hits? They aren't like golems, where everything is uniform stone - cutting the right wires can do a lot of damage to a machine.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 30, 2015, 12:34:47 PM
So, since you're tweaking your aura classes want to finish tweaking this?   :P
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on November 30, 2015, 03:23:40 PM
Sorry. No plans at present. I don't even remember where I left off and what I was last working on here.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on March 17, 2016, 12:16:18 AM
Finally got around to finishing all of those changes I was talking about before. Now I just have to post them. Since I'm under the weather right now and have minimal energy, that could still be a while.

Oh, and here's the sample Cybernetic Dragon. I couldn't be bothered to use its NPC wealth. 13th level NPC gear value is 35000 gp, treasure for an EL 13 encounter is 13000 gp (and dragons are triple standard, so 39000 gp). If you have any suggestions, it might be nice to do something with all of that 35-39000 gp.

(click to show/hide)

Edit: Fixed the sample dragon.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 17, 2016, 10:15:11 AM
Hooray, progress!

Typo under activating: to activate modules a limited number of modules

Also wind strider is listed as having a DC but shouldn't have one.

And you have no range listed for the telepathy but you don't have a telepathy module?

Other than that, looks like an interesting template.  Right now I'm not motivated enough to gear anything out though.  :P

Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on March 17, 2016, 01:12:01 PM
The save DC on Wind Strider is to stop gaseous creatures from entering your space.

Thanks for the catches.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 17, 2016, 01:29:16 PM
Ahh, I missed that part of the module.

So, what else can I look forward to appearing once you're feeling better?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on March 17, 2016, 01:42:09 PM
Here's the new change log. It's mostly just what I listed a few posts back in April 2015, although there are one or two additional things, like a bunch of racial feats. Care to guess what they all do?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 17, 2016, 02:02:49 PM
Everything looks like good changes.

Chromed Up piques my interest.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on March 17, 2016, 02:08:33 PM
Chromed Up [General]
Prerequisite: Con 15.
Benefit: You pay only half the normal graft sacrifice, rounded down, for grafts you receive. If you've received any grafts in the past, this applies retroactively.

Edit: Looking at it again, I'm considering if it should have something extra, like let you use an extra graft or two, or negating the sacrifices entirely. Graft sacrifices for cybernetic grafts didn't wind up as severe as I thought they might. Although I still have to compare to other types of grafts. /shrug
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 17, 2016, 02:54:55 PM
I read your post, then looked at the grafts, then was about to suggest half the sacrifice rounded down.   :cool

I'm not sure what other graft feats there are or how these graft sacrfices compare to others.

If the feat doesn't feel like enough (and with the current sacrifices I agree that it isn't, with this feat and all all of the grafts that require more than 1 hp combined you're only losing 9hp), I'd add that you can have an extra graft in any single graft slot that doesn't count against your maximum number of grafts (or something like that).
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 17, 2016, 03:06:07 PM
Okay, a complete (enough) list of grafts and sacrifices is in this guide (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=12562.msg216003#msg216003).

Things I'm noticing:

No official graft loses only 1 hp.
A good amount lower stats.
There are no feats to make grafts better/more useful/less annoying with the penalties.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on March 17, 2016, 03:56:53 PM
I'm upping the graft sacrifices a little bit. I don't want them to be too much; frequent complaints about grafts are that they just cost too much for their benefit, and the high gp cost is only part of that. If you have any suggestions for graft sacrifices that should be adjusted, I'm all ears.

Just finished this:

Chameloenic Metaskin
Price: 20000 gp
Graft Sacrifice: 4 hp, -2 Search, -2 Spot
Graft Location: Skin
Activation: Use-activated (full-round)

Metamaterials embedded in your skin allow you to blend in with nearly any environment. You can attempt to hide without cover or concealment and you gain a +10 circumstance bonus on Hide checks. This bonus does not stack with the bonuses from being invisible. Additionally, if you hold yourself perfectly still (typically a full-round action), the metamaterials can align and seamlessly bend light around your body, rendering you completely invisible. The system is designed such that a nearly imperceptible portion of the light striking you around your face is still absorbed and amplified, allowing you to still see, although some visual distortion still occurs.

Construction Prerequisites: Cybernetic Grafter, Stealth Field.
Cost to Create: 10000 gp, 800 XP, 20 days.
Graft Donor: A tissue sample from the intended recipient.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 17, 2016, 04:46:38 PM
Don't worry, I'm happy that your grafts don't have stat reducers.  I don't like paying money for something that's a mixed blessing unless I'm buying a cursed item.

I think that just making all of the hp loss into an even number would put them in line with other grafts enough for my taste.

If the feat removed all penalties and you took the most hp reducing grafts per slot (after all the odd numbers went up one) you'd be gaining back: 16 hp, +2 concentration, +2 spot, and +2 swim (plus an additional +6 hp if it let you have 2 grafts in a slot and you took the second most expensive body one).

Honestly that doesn't sound excessive as a "best case" scenario.

I'll look closer at the sacrifices after you've made your adjustments.


The graft looks good but the invisibility needs a duration (and probably removing the "typically" unless you can think of a scenario where it would be a different action).
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on March 21, 2016, 09:45:03 PM
Aaaaaaaaand posted!

Edit: Also, Smartlink weapon property and Brutal Strike battle talent for Dreadnoughts have been added to the change log, because those have also been added since I gave you the preliminary version.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 21, 2016, 10:27:33 PM
Looks good.

I really like Augmentation Mastery as a feat.

Graft changes look good.

Too lazy for turrets right now.

Dragon template looks good.   :)
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on March 27, 2016, 12:17:20 AM
Just some typos I need to get to:

Armor - Barrier Armor: "A character wearing boost barrier armor is protected from most energy-based attacks."
Gadget - Environmental Seal: "No Fortitude save is required against the pressure when the damage is completely prevented in this way."
General Cybernetic Items - Bottomless Magazine: "as long as the standard ammunition used has a market values value of less than 1 gp per unit."
Feat - Nanobot Dissolution: "you can make separate yourself"
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 29, 2016, 10:49:27 AM
If you want a high level NPC I've got a level 20 Energy Warrior that has only 1 level of another homebrew class which could easily be removed if you want a level 20 Energy Warrior example.  I'm even using one of the races from this system.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on March 29, 2016, 10:50:14 PM
I'd love to hear the story behind that.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 30, 2016, 10:18:52 AM
It's for a play by post game here on the boards, Blood Crusade Against Thoon. 
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 29, 2016, 06:05:23 PM
I didn't realize that you had armor concealment rules, that's pretty neat.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 29, 2016, 06:25:16 PM
It's based on D20 Modern's rules for concealed armor, which was a fixed DC 30 or so Spot check depending on the armor in question, and only for specifically concealable armor (no Disguise skill, no way to make it harder to find, etc.).

Also, the new Search use for frisking is actually in the D&D 3.5 SRD. It's just really easy to miss because it's described under the Sleight of Hand skill.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on October 18, 2016, 07:05:30 PM
I had some ideas that I want to keep track of, even though I'm not planning on working on this at the current time.

Floating Charge [Cybernetic]
Prerequisites: Access to a lesser socket.
Benefits: You grant a +1 enhancement bonus to the energy capacity of your energy receptacles that are not attached to any of your sockets.

Floating Current [Cybernetic]
Prerequisites: Access to a greater socket, Floating Charge.
Benefits: Your modules that are not attached to any sockets count as having 1 more energy allocated to them than they actually have, to a maximum of their respective energy capacities.

Power Armor Mastery [Cybernetic]
Prerequisites: Medium armor proficiency.
Benefits: While you are wearing armor that is an energy receptacle, you can treat it as being 1 category lighter than normal where beneficial, to a minimum of light armor. If you can allocate energy to it, its maximum energy capacity is 1 higher than normal.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on October 18, 2016, 07:29:25 PM
Floating Charge/Current looks good (although I haven't looked into balance).

Power Armor Mastery looks nice.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on January 05, 2017, 03:25:05 AM
An idea that was floated way back when I was working on converting MaI to PoC was absorbing energy attacks to power yourself up.

Energizing Absorption [Cybernetic]
Prerequisites: Access to the Energy Emitter socket, Energy Warrior's Energy Resistance class feature.
Benefits: Whenever you take at least 1 point of damage (after applying resistances, immunities, and other defenses) of a type or sort that your Energy Resistance ability protects against, choose a module attached to your Energy Emitter socket. You gain a +1 bonus to your energy capacity for that module, and you gain 1 point of temporary energy which is automatically allocated to that module and cannot be removed by any means. This effect lasts until you go 1 round without taking damage that Energy Resistance protects against.
Special: You can select this feat multiple times, up to a maximum of your normal energy capacity. If you take damage multiple times, this effects stacks, up to a maximum energy capacity and temporary energy bonus equal to the number of times you selected this feat.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on January 05, 2017, 11:17:03 AM
Interesting, I can see potential abuse though.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on January 05, 2017, 04:52:21 PM
I have to imagine that with a decent amount of fast healing, replenishing temp hp, or regeneration, you could damage yourself and freely heal back up. Most significant damage sources have a large variance in damage dealt, so if you're dealing enough damage to reliably get past 20+ resistance (2 base energy + 1 class feature + 1 from the feat if you're doing this at level 10 when the class feature shows up), you're probably actually taking more than a few points of damage each round. There are multiple modules that give fast healing and the like, but you'd probably have to allocate significantly more energy to them than you're getting back from the feat.

Probably needs to change the temporary energy to just counting as though extra energy was allocated or something, though. I'm sure there are ways to abuse just getting the quick, free, and repeated source of temporary energy, even if you can't move it elsewhere.

Also, I think I mucked up the wording. It should only stack up to +1 energy and capacity for each time you selected the feat, not giving you +1/feat each time you take damage.

Did I miss anything? Probably. What abuse potential did you see?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on January 05, 2017, 05:09:12 PM
You covered what I saw, damaging yourself and then healing it back up for free boosts above the normal energy cap.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 07, 2017, 11:05:17 AM
Autoturrets from the Autoturret Construction Kit can never get Precise Shot, so they're always stuck with a -4 to hit if targeting someone who is in melee. 

Edit: Also, didn't you finish morph ball on the temp board?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on July 07, 2017, 12:06:39 PM
Autoturrets from the Autoturret Construction Kit can never get Precise Shot, so they're always stuck with a -4 to hit if targeting someone who is in melee. 

True. I may have to do something about that. I'll look into it.

Quote
Edit: Also, didn't you finish morph ball on the temp board?

I think so, yes. I'm still in the process of updating my homebrew here with the changes I made when reposting to the storm shelter. I don't remember all the changes I made to PoC, although they're all in the change log.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 08, 2017, 10:32:50 PM
Autoturrets from the Autoturret Construction Kit can never get Precise Shot, so they're always stuck with a -4 to hit if targeting someone who is in melee. 

True. I may have to do something about that. I'll look into it.

Let me know how this goes at it will affect my character.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on July 09, 2017, 02:03:35 AM
I'll let you know how it goes. I'm leaning towards adding Precise Shot to autoturrets, though.

Speaking of turrets, I'm statting up a big bertha. It's an enormous, colossal, magnificent tower of guns. It gets 25 ranged attacks per round at an average of a little over 45 damage apiece, for an average of over 1100 damage/round if everything connects, discounting crits (19-20/x3 and another +16 damage pre-multiplier). Its damage can apply in an area. It deals a combinations of piercing, acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic damage. Its attacks can hit incorporeal and ethereal targets. Its maximum range is 2400 feet. It is a thing of destructive beauty. And, like the tarrasque and many other puzzle bosses, it has weaknesses so glaring that I expect a properly motivated mid-level party could give it a run for its money.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 09, 2017, 11:56:18 AM
I can make one with a module right?   :smirk
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on July 09, 2017, 09:20:24 PM
Okay, I think I'm done with this batch of changes. I'll probably start uploading it all tonight or tomorrow.

The turrets with ranged weapons are all getting Precise Shot, except for the new guardian turret, because its ability to make ranged attacks is really a secondary thing.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 09, 2017, 09:31:24 PM
Hooray, precise shot!
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on July 10, 2017, 12:11:19 AM
And updating is done.

Coincidentally, just as I got to the Metroid stuff, this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDJ63ZHrGo8) popped up on my playlist.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 10, 2017, 12:59:00 AM
Haha, nice!


Does Power Armor Mastery apply to the Power Suit module?

Hardlight weapons are pretty cool, and unlimited ammo means no tracking ammo which is good.

The new grafts look good.

Thank you for precise shot on the turrets, it makes a big difference.

Big Bertha...*drools*


Controlling turrets and the rezbit, is that a free action post deployment?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on July 10, 2017, 01:19:01 AM
Does Power Armor Mastery apply to the Power Suit module?

Yes. Power Suit creates a suit of armor that counts as an energy receptacle (since it shares energy allocation), so Power Armor Mastery applies to the armor. The energy capacity increase also does (or at least should) apply back to the Power Suit module, since the armor and the module share energy allocation which means (or at least should mean) that they act like a single energy receptacle.

Quote
Controlling turrets and the rezbit, is that a free action post deployment?

Yes. Communicating wirelessly, like talking and telepathy, is a free action.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on August 12, 2017, 12:11:31 AM
I had an idea for a new base class (and at least one associated module) that uses magic as well as cybernetics. Names are pending.

Class
(click to show/hide)

Module
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on August 12, 2017, 01:34:07 AM
Iiiiiiinteresting.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Versatility_Nut on August 14, 2017, 05:37:00 PM
Regarding Arcanotechnitian, the setup is a bit too complicated and arbitrary. Listing the spell slots is unneeded if there are never any real slots present, so the entire spell slot setup can be replaced with a single column stating maximum spell level. However, spell slots are very different in power, so having one Energy be one spell slot for all spell levels means people will always max out slots of their highest level, with the cap being very much too high for normal play given the power of the Wiz/Sorc list.

I'd change that casting mechanic to Energy=CL. Essentially, you have 1 power invested be one level of spellcasting. A Bard type caster actually gets a spell level every three levels. Capping at 6th level slots is an arbitrary restriction on them. They really cap at 15th level casting, sans the 7th level spell slots. So a Bard-type slot progression would mean 15 Energy if Energy=CL. Having actual CL for spells cast be determined by Energy invested also means that you have room for a Module that just boosts CL by Energy invested while messing with spell effect caps.

As for doing Archivists with it, that's just a single AFC away to make the class Divine instead of Arcane. Possibly with a few Modules to make it work out better exclusive to the AFC. Or roll it into subclasses and have the modules use keywords for casting types, which enables AFCs for any power source one feels like with just slapping another keyword on the Module list. You'd need a blanket keyword to cover all such modules, though.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on August 14, 2017, 08:04:48 PM
Regarding Arcanotechnitian, the setup is a bit too complicated and arbitrary. Listing the spell slots is unneeded if there are never any real slots present, so the entire spell slot setup can be replaced with a single column stating maximum spell level. However, spell slots are very different in power, so having one Energy be one spell slot for all spell levels means people will always max out slots of their highest level, with the cap being very much too high for normal play given the power of the Wiz/Sorc list.

Real slots are present when bonus slots from ability scores are a go.  In addition, Garryl already listed restrictions on spell slot energy investment so people can't max out slots of the highest level without maxing out all lower levels as well.  In addition, the standard energy cap is 4 for a level 20 character so I don't understand your issue.

Quote
I'd change that casting mechanic to Energy=CL. Essentially, you have 1 power invested be one level of spellcasting. A Bard type caster actually gets a spell level every three levels. Capping at 6th level slots is an arbitrary restriction on them. They really cap at 15th level casting, sans the 7th level spell slots. So a Bard-type slot progression would mean 15 Energy if Energy=CL. Having actual CL for spells cast be determined by Energy invested also means that you have room for a Module that just boosts CL by Energy invested while messing with spell effect caps.

Since the standard energy cap is 4 at level 20 that's not going to work.

Quote
As for doing Archivists with it, that's just a single AFC away to make the class Divine instead of Arcane. Possibly with a few Modules to make it work out better exclusive to the AFC. Or roll it into subclasses and have the modules use keywords for casting types, which enables AFCs for any power source one feels like with just slapping another keyword on the Module list. You'd need a blanket keyword to cover all such modules, though.

I agree, an ACF with a divine version module would work for this.  The rest would depend on how many extra modules the class will entail.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on August 14, 2017, 10:04:17 PM
Another related idea: Psiberneticist (name is a joke). Similar to arcanotechnician concept but with psionics instead of magic. No spell slots or energy allocation. Just expends energy directly to create power points.

Additional module effect ideas for interacting with spellcasting:
- Module maintains concentration on a single spell for you, up to a level equal to the energy allocation.
- Bonus to your spells' DCs to resist being dispelled and to be identified with Spellcraft.
- Gain temporary energy equal to a spell's level when you dismiss it. Lasts for 1 minute or until the spell would have expired normally. Multiple spells do not stack.

Also, a feat that I expect to be at least as broken as DMM: Expend energy to apply a metamagic feat without adjusting the spell slot level used.

Regarding Arcanotechnitian, the setup is a bit too complicated and arbitrary. Listing the spell slots is unneeded if there are never any real slots present, so the entire spell slot setup can be replaced with a single column stating maximum spell level. However, spell slots are very different in power, so having one Energy be one spell slot for all spell levels means people will always max out slots of their highest level, with the cap being very much too high for normal play given the power of the Wiz/Sorc list.

Well, two columns, one for cantrip slots and one for max spell level, but I see what you mean.

Regarding maximizing the highest level slots, that's what what limiting the higher level slots's capacities to the amount spent on lower level slots was intended for. For example, to get a third 5th-level slot would require expending at least 15 energy, 3 for each level from 1st through 5th.

Also, note to self, the exact wording is far from final. The way I described it above (energy capacity = min(normal, min(all lower level allocations))) means that bonuses to energy capacity (such as from Systemic Reboot System) could partially bypass that limit and let you get more higher-level slots than lower-level slots from energy allocation.

Quote
I'd change that casting mechanic to Energy=CL. Essentially, you have 1 power invested be one level of spellcasting. A Bard type caster actually gets a spell level every three levels. Capping at 6th level slots is an arbitrary restriction on them. They really cap at 15th level casting, sans the 7th level spell slots. So a Bard-type slot progression would mean 15 Energy if Energy=CL. Having actual CL for spells cast be determined by Energy invested also means that you have room for a Module that just boosts CL by Energy invested while messing with spell effect caps.

I hadn't considered scaling it directly based on the standard spellcasting table. It would probably work out better in some ways, since the scaling of energy capacity means that in this first draft, your upper limit on spell slots is the same for all spell levels and scales oddly for a spellcaster. At low character level, you get very few spell slots, even of your low-level spells. At higher character levels, whenever you gain a new spell level, you get the full potential complement of spell slots for it. And if you multiclass out, your maximum spell slots keep rising despite the fact that you're no longer progressing your spellcasting class. Something to think about.

Quote
As for doing Archivists with it, that's just a single AFC away to make the class Divine instead of Arcane. Possibly with a few Modules to make it work out better exclusive to the AFC. Or roll it into subclasses and have the modules use keywords for casting types, which enables AFCs for any power source one feels like with just slapping another keyword on the Module list. You'd need a blanket keyword to cover all such modules, though.

I would definitely like to have at least a divine spellcasting ACF for this class if I were to actually make it. PoC classes are already extremely versatile thanks to the wide variety of modules they have access to, which is part of why I've had so much trouble making ACFs and variants for them. It's nice to finally have a concept that lends itself to that.

By the way, Versatility_Nut, it's ACF (Alternative Class Feature), not AFC.

Quote
I'd change that casting mechanic to Energy=CL. Essentially, you have 1 power invested be one level of spellcasting. A Bard type caster actually gets a spell level every three levels. Capping at 6th level slots is an arbitrary restriction on them. They really cap at 15th level casting, sans the 7th level spell slots. So a Bard-type slot progression would mean 15 Energy if Energy=CL. Having actual CL for spells cast be determined by Energy invested also means that you have room for a Module that just boosts CL by Energy invested while messing with spell effect caps.

Since the standard energy cap is 4 at level 20 that's not going to work.

It wouldn't be the first time there's been an energy receptacle with a nonstandard capacity. For example, the nanotheurge has a class feature with a capacity of roughly 1/2 the class level.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on August 24, 2017, 01:58:29 PM
Note to self: One of these days, I need to review the energy warrior's module list. It was always thinner and more disjointed than the others and I don't think I ever corrected that. On top of that, non-damage options are more limited even with the same module count because so many of the energy warrior modules are beam modules, which have one of their socket attachments devoted to variations on the same thing (enhancing energy beam attacks).
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: YuweaCurtis on August 25, 2017, 08:07:50 AM
So, if I'm reading right the Energy Warrior can emit enough weapons to fill his hands, but they have to be the same one?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on August 25, 2017, 06:27:07 PM
So, if I'm reading right the Energy Warrior can emit enough weapons to fill his hands, but they have to be the same one?

That is correct. You could, for example, have two morningstars, or a pair of shortswords, but not a longsword and a shortsword together.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Versatility_Nut on August 26, 2017, 10:26:02 AM
Note to self: One of these days, I need to review the energy warrior's module list. It was always thinner and more disjointed than the others and I don't think I ever corrected that. On top of that, non-damage options are more limited even with the same module count because so many of the energy warrior modules are beam modules, which have one of their socket attachments devoted to variations on the same thing (enhancing energy beam attacks).

Taking a quick look, I see Energy Warrior needing some refluffing, and possibly some mechanical adjustments, to make sense. Energy Beam's fluff, being a beam, is rather nonsensical for having it treated as a melee weapon, and kinda constricts sane design space by having an implication that it's always going to be damage, no matter what. What about people who want to be a pile of tanking with Energy Warrior? There should be an armor or shield option at lower levels, for that desire. There's actually no option at all for just using it as a beam, so the name is nonsense.

As for suggestions on expanding the Energy Warrior list, I'd move Energy Claws and Energy Fangs to Module space. Rather than one Module for each natural attack type, I'd have it kinda be groupings. For example, Sting and Tail on one Module, Bite and Gore on another and Claw and Slam on a third, with each option having different effects and each Module having different Sockets/effects for Sockets to make them really matter as separate things.

Another thing would be more Combo Modules. There's only four of them currently, but there can be a lot more of them. Energy Beam auxiliary effects, like above, and Missile Launcher alterations are both good space to stick Combo Modules on. One of these that's seemingly, but not really, covered by an existing module is having Energy Beam boosters apply to Missiles. The reason it's not really covered is because Ice Spreader sticks this effect on the Energy Emitter socket, where literally all of the existing Energy Beam enhancements are, so it really just means feats and features apply. Unless you grab the feat that gives a duplicate socket to have two Energy Emitter sockets active at once, which needs errata for how it deals with the existing multiple Energy Emitter sockets of Energy Warrior and the move action swap of active socketing.

A different Energy Emitter combo would, naturally, be something that enhances Energy Beam that doesn't occupy the Energy Emitter socket. Something like getting 1d6 damage on some particular condition, like having a Target Lock, or be Fighting Defensively. If the latter is the case, a Shielding module effect could be having Energy Beam damage apply to all attackers who land a hit while a low-Absorption Energy Shield with relatively high Recharge, like being 4-8 Absorption per Energy with 2-4 Recharge per Energy. This would give an alternative to Energy Tank for that ablative, regenerating HP.

A general issue with this subsystem is effect overlap. It's downright excessive. There's just flat out too much finite requirement on what's being done with particular sockets. The Visor socket gets practically all the tracking and visibility functions, while the shielding socket gets virtually all the useful defensive abilities that aren't on non-socket effects. You have immunity to fire in the shielding slot, which is nothing compared to getting 80 extra HP, with 20 of that coming back at 4 HP per round as the Shielding socket effect. Energy Tank just massively overwhelms so many of the other effects in it's slots, specifically because of that specification of what sockets do. 1d6 damage per Energy for every attack this round? With Duel Weapon making replacement of the TWF chain cost one feat(duplicate slots make things nasty, okay?) and four energy, this becomes completely trivial to get massive damage out of

Or you can attach Missile Launcher to the Arm socket and trivially get +4d6 damage on five separate Touch Attacks that have 5 ft. splash. Each one already dealing 2d6 damage. While also getting the option to use Ice Spreader and the socket duplicating feat to add another 4d6 to each attack, with a 30 ft. cone radius coming off the already 5 ft. splash, while also having a 50% miss chance for attackers. This comes from Shadow Beam. Even if the bonus damage is halved, it's still crazy. And, of course, the extra Energy Emitter slot can instead be used for a different Energy Beam module, which means another 4d6 damage for Energy Beam attacks.

Swap Energy Tank to Shielding, freeing Hands for Duel Weapon to get GTWF and full Strength to damage and reduced attack penalties, swap Missile Launcher for teleporting full-attack Spring Attack off of Assassin Teleportation and swap Ice Spreader for Warp Beam to enable Assassin Teleportation and get a +4 bonus to Attack rolls and 4d4 damage and you've got a nightmare of an attack spam setup with a rather large amount of damage soak before we even get into anything else.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 11, 2020, 11:41:28 PM
Let me know when you're ready for me to look over the Gladiator.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: YuweaCurtis on June 12, 2020, 10:28:12 AM
Something new? That's a pleasant surprise! I'll read it later, working on character right now.

Since I'm here I got a probably dumb question. How many modules can fit on a section of the body, none socketed? And how do you determine the location of some (like Missile Launcher).
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 12, 2020, 11:04:57 AM
Something new? That's a pleasant surprise! I'll read it later, working on character right now.

Since I'm here I got a probably dumb question. How many modules can fit on a section of the body, none socketed? And how do you determine the location of some (like Missile Launcher).

Infinity! Or not applicable. Modules aren't like soulmelds and don't interfere with each other based on socket associations nor take up space on the body, even when attached to a socket.

The body slot/socket associations are mostly for fluff. Only a few abilities, like the Pocket Industry feat chain, actually make use of them. I had some vague plans for more such effects, like cybernetic items with bonus effects if attached to their slot's socket and/or boosts to modules attached to their body slot's socket, or abilities that gave synergistic bonuses to modules and soulmelds attached/bound to equivalent slot sockets/chakras. I never got around to them in PoC, though its predecessor MaI has a little bit in its activating/meldshaping PrC, and the system doesn't feel desperately lacking for their absence.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: YuweaCurtis on June 12, 2020, 02:43:26 PM
Yea here I was only taking one visor because or an imagined limit. If I had the two types of Visors could I maintain two different locks?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 12, 2020, 04:36:54 PM
Yea here I was only taking one visor because or an imagined limit. If I had the two types of Visors could I maintain two different locks?

That, you can't. Target lock is a mechanic unto itself that the Advanced Targeting and Dueling Visor modules, alongside a few items and abilities, allow you to make use of. No many how many sources allow you to acquire a target lock, you can only keep one on one subject at a time (with the exception of high-level bounty hunters, who get a class feature that extends that limit). You do, however, get all of the benefits of a target lock that all of your modules and effects provide, no matter how you gain the ability to acquire a target lock. The modules that allow you to acquire a target lock have a summary of this information in their descriptions to clarify how they interact.

For example, if you had both the Advanced Targeting and Dueling Visor modules active, you would be able to establish and maintain a target lock on a single creature at once, but you would get both the Dodge bonus to AC and the Dex bonus to ranged damage (alongside the various other lock-related benefits the modules provide from energy and attachments) against that one creature. Likewise, you would get an improved attack bonus with a smartlink weapon and you would be able to benefit from the bounty hunter's marked target class feature.

Edit: Note to self: The target lock (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=11008.msg253424#msg253424) special ability should specify that by default, you can only acquire a target lock on a subject you can see, maybe also clarify that some abilities change what you can acquire on or maintain on.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: YuweaCurtis on June 12, 2020, 05:24:26 PM
Since you seem to be working on this, I'll note the  Observation class has the wrong class linked.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 12, 2020, 05:30:32 PM
Which link where?

Edit: Oh, to the astronomer. Thanks. I'll fix that.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 12, 2020, 11:01:23 PM
Let me know when you're ready for me to look over the Gladiator.

I just plonked down the latest of my brain drainings for the exo gladiator. It's got class features up to level 6 now and racial sub levels for warforged. Also, I've fully written out 13 new modules, with notes for 2 more. I would appreciate your preliminary impressions (beyond "cool new activator material"). Also, if you have any ideas for higher-level class features, I'm particularly open to suggestions. Filling out the levels has been the stumbling block for me.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: YuweaCurtis on June 13, 2020, 08:00:57 AM
Hey, any suggestions on managing the expend energy features of the Energy Warrior?

Also Bounty Hunter requires socket access, but gives Least Socket Access. I'd imagine this is so you could get in with the feat, but having full activator progress makes this feel moot.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 13, 2020, 08:53:02 AM
Hey, any suggestions on managing the expend energy features of the Energy Warrior?

Not a clue, really. Energy expenditure effects are things that you're not supposed to do too much, lest you run out of energy and weaken yourself in general for the rest of the adventuring day. The intent with the energy emitter attachments is that the expenditure effect is supposed to be a bonus when you need it, but not something that you use all the time. Also, you can get back all of your expended energy with an hour's rest by refreshing your energy (and that's not limited to 1/day), so if you do expend too much, you can spend some time to recover.

The energy expenditure effects are among the ones that I've thought the least about, so I'd appreciate any feedback you have about them.

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Also Bounty Hunter requires socket access, but gives Least Socket Access. I'd imagine this is so you could get in with the feat, but having full activator progress makes this feel moot.

That's the case for all or almost all of the PrCs for exactly the reason you mentioned. It's also important for energy warriors, who can get in with just access to their Energy Emitter socket (ditto for the upcoming exo gladiator class).

Note that activator level progression doesn't progress socket access that a class gives, only the number of concurrent attachments (and modules and energy). For example, if you take 10 levels of cyberneticist and then 10 levels of bounty hunter, you'll only have access to greater sockets, not core. It's part of how a PrC can have full activating progression and not be a straight upgrade over a base class.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: YuweaCurtis on June 13, 2020, 10:27:01 AM
Yea I get that, just that Least socket gain feels empty.

The concept items look good.

Phase Discountinuity; Maybe drop the damage a die? Because the phasing is definitely better than the other natural weapons. Then again, weapon modules.
Thrust Lancer; Maybe this is partially because of a bias, but moment and skirmish sounds awefully like Energy Warrior things to me.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 14, 2020, 04:41:42 PM
Thoughts:

Could use Sense Motive as a class skill.

Same activating table as the Energy Warrior, makes sense.

Can exografts be masterwork?  How about made of special abilities like mithral?  As written the answers to those questions are both no because they aren't crafted like armor, just treated like armor while attached to the wearer.  Obviously the intent is that they can be crafted the same was as armor because you have a class ability that lets them be masterwork.

Light armor proficiency with rules for medium and heavy exografts feels weird.  I don't know if it should be changed though.

Besides the obvious of looking at Totemist for ideas, SirP's Morphling (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=2149) might spark something since it is also natural weapon focused.


Shouldn't extra energy in Synthetic Rage increase the duration?

Natural attacks granted should specify a damage type.  I was just assuming the defaults from the SRD until I hit "incorporeal touch natural attack".  That doesn't have a default damage type.

Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 14, 2020, 05:14:30 PM
Phase Discountinuity; Maybe drop the damage a die? Because the phasing is definitely better than the other natural weapons. Then again, weapon modules.

It loses Strength to damage, so it's a high accuracy, low damage attack form. It should typically be doing maybe 25% less damage per hit than a typical natural weapon, comparable to the likely accuracy improvement it has over a typical natural weapon. Other natural weapons also have their own benefits, like coming in pairs or being bonus attacks separate from your normal limbs.

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Thrust Lancer; Maybe this is partially because of a bias, but moment and skirmish sounds awefully like Energy Warrior things to me.

You are right! I'll make it an energy warrior module, too.

Please let me know if any other modules look like they should be accessible to other classes. That hasn't been a priority for me in my scribblings.

Thoughts:

Could use Sense Motive as a class skill.

Sounds appropriate.

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Same activating table as the Energy Warrior, makes sense.

Can exografts be masterwork?  How about made of special abilities like mithral?  As written the answers to those questions are both no because they aren't crafted like armor, just treated like armor while attached to the wearer.  Obviously the intent is that they can be crafted the same was as armor because you have a class ability that lets them be masterwork.

Yes! In fact, the default starting exograft that exo gladiators get at character creation is masterwork.

Exografts are armor. All of the normal rules for armor apply to them. They just have extra rules that make them more graft-like.

"Exografts are armor, but in some ways they function similarly to grafts."
"An exograft can be modified just like any other suit of armor, even while it's attached."

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Light armor proficiency with rules for medium and heavy exografts feels weird.  I don't know if it should be changed though.

It's mostly for multiclassing, so you can still use your heavier armor proficiencies. Also for that one crazy guy who thinks that Medium and Heavy Armor Proficiency are worth spending feats on.

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Besides the obvious of looking at Totemist for ideas, SirP's Morphling (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=2149) might spark something since it is also natural weapon focused.

Great minds think alike. I had a few magipunk classes on my research/reference list, the morphling included.

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Shouldn't extra energy in Synthetic Rage increase the duration?

The balancing point on the current iteration of the module was intended to be that you're getting more power than you typically would in other modules for the same amount of energy, offset by the fact that the bonuses will likely run out on or just before the last round of combat. Not sure I quite managed that, though.

An earlier draft of the effect had the duration scaling with energy, but I couldn't get a clean wording and effect. I didn't want it to snapshot the energy allocation right as you entered the rage, any dynamically changing the duration as your energy allocation changed sounded like a bookkeeping annoyance in addition to being difficult to word properly.

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Natural attacks granted should specify a damage type.  I was just assuming the defaults from the SRD until I hit "incorporeal touch natural attack".  That doesn't have a default damage type.

Will do. Incorporeal touch will specify that is untyped, and I'll list the damage type in the abilities for the rest.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 14, 2020, 10:46:53 PM
I think the whole language about what an exograft is needs to be cleaned up.  This whole "it's armor but not really because it's a graft" thing is obviously complicated enough that I missed important things even on a second read-through.  Maybe not necessarily cleaned up, just rearranged so that rules text comes before fluff text. 

Thinking about it further, I was going to do a rewrite to show you what I mean but honestly I think that "Exografts are armor, but in some ways they function similarly to grafts." should be the very first sentence and that fixes that.  I missed it twice because everything before it was fluff so I assumed it was a meaningless fluff paragraph (as far as I can tell).

On Synthetic Rage's duration, fair enough.  I haven't gotten to the point of trying to balance modules against other modules.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 14, 2020, 11:28:28 PM
I think the whole language about what an exograft is needs to be cleaned up.  This whole "it's armor but not really because it's a graft" thing is obviously complicated enough that I missed important things even on a second read-through.  Maybe not necessarily cleaned up, just rearranged so that rules text comes before fluff text. 

Thinking about it further, I was going to do a rewrite to show you what I mean but honestly I think that "Exografts are armor, but in some ways they function similarly to grafts." should be the very first sentence and that fixes that.  I missed it twice because everything before it was fluff so I assumed it was a meaningless fluff paragraph (as far as I can tell).

Is this clearer? I think I got rid of all the language that refers to it like a graft.

(click to show/hide)

Edit: If that doesn't clear it up well enough, I might also replace the attach/remove terminology with don/remove, like armor normally uses and possibly also replace the paragraph about attaching/removing in 8 hours with the standard don/don hastily/remove table for armor (indicating the same 8 hours w/ grafter assistance). I think the flavor would suffer, though.

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On Synthetic Rage's duration, fair enough.  I haven't gotten to the point of trying to balance modules against other modules.

Everything here needs a balance pass. It's all or almost all first draft stuff.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: YuweaCurtis on June 15, 2020, 06:33:49 AM
The point of Thrust Lancer's first ability is to charge with reach weapons right?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 15, 2020, 03:48:25 PM
That cleared it up perfectly.  I now completely understand that it is armor that functions kind of like a graft in some ways and is not a hybrid armor/graft item.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 15, 2020, 07:08:25 PM
That cleared it up perfectly.  I now completely understand that it is armor that functions kind of like a graft in some ways and is not a hybrid armor/graft item.

To be fair, it's evolved from a pseudo-graft to a graft that eats a body slot to a graft that's also partly armor to a graft/armor hybrid to an armor/graft hybrid to armor that's kind of like a graft, so I'm not surprised that I've managed to bamboozle you about it.

The point of Thrust Lancer's first ability is to charge with reach weapons right?

No? There's nothing stopping you from charging with reach weapons normally. It's more a general freeing up of restrictions on charging, which evolves into taking off into straight-line flight after a Ride-By Attack-like charge with the arms socket.

Thanks for bringing my attention to this, though. I had forgotten to add verbiage specifying that you don't need to move directly towards your opponent.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: YuweaCurtis on June 15, 2020, 08:05:05 PM
Oh, well yea that bit about not having to stop next to them threw me off
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 16, 2020, 12:07:24 AM
That cleared it up perfectly.  I now completely understand that it is armor that functions kind of like a graft in some ways and is not a hybrid armor/graft item.

To be fair, it's evolved from a pseudo-graft to a graft that eats a body slot to a graft that's also partly armor to a graft/armor hybrid to an armor/graft hybrid to armor that's kind of like a graft, so I'm not surprised that I've managed to bamboozle you about it.

 :lmao
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 16, 2020, 10:58:57 PM
Currently looking at adding the following abilities plus uncanny dodge to the exo gladiator. What do you think?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: YuweaCurtis on June 17, 2020, 12:06:41 AM
Perhaps this is a bit close to Thrash Line, but how about something based off Whiplash from Iron Man for a module?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 17, 2020, 12:16:05 AM
Perhaps this is a bit close to Thrash Line, but how about something based off Whiplash from Iron Man for a module?

For general purpose energy whip stuff, there's also Grapple Lasso. Are you thinking about something more specific that those two modules don't cover?
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 17, 2020, 01:29:06 PM
Pulse of the Pits seems fine.  It should probably have a range, seeing someone a hundred feet away that doesn't even notice you probably shouldn't you knowledge of their opinion of you.

It also reminded me of the Sense Motive expanded skill use here (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/skills/sense_motive.shtml).  I'm not sure if that is something you'd want to make use of.

In general Unconventional Tactics seems okay but it isn't exciting.  I don't have time right now to look at every one of the options.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on June 19, 2020, 09:31:37 PM
To some extent, I'm looking for a lot of filler and only a couple of really impressive abilities to spread across the 20 exo gladiator levels on top of the existing activating and exograft abilities. I may have gone too far on the filler side of the spectrum with unconventional tactics, though.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 19, 2020, 10:34:56 PM
They feel different enough from Dreadnought talents that they feel unique, but the lists are so short that there's going to be a good amount of overlap with how often choices are granted.

Other possible class features:
 - Rend when multiple natural attacks hit
 - Improved Natural Attack for Exograft granted natural weapon(s)
 - Natural Attacks from modules count as X for overcoming DR
 - Secondary natural attacks deal full strength to damage

I feel like the capstone should be Exograft related.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on July 03, 2020, 01:36:00 AM
Just went through a big pass of all the modules. It was just supposed to be a polish pass, but I wound up making a few balance changes, a few minor mechanical adjustments, and I added a few extra attachments for modules that were lacking options and to interact with mechanics like radiation that were added much later in the system's development.

Also, vacuums now have rules for how they interact with sonic effects. They generally don't go together very well, as you might expect. All of the sonic modules also got some additional text to specify how they interact with vacuums.

Note to self: If I ever run a sci-fi PoC campaign, when it comes to the inevitable section on a space ship, emergency decompression survival gear is a device of Exploration Kit (potionized so non-activators can use it).
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 21, 2022, 11:52:56 PM
Let me know when you're ready for me to look over the Gladiator.

Hey look at that, I guess you're ready!  ;)  (I realized after I typed this up that I gave input on it a couple of years ago, I guess that makes my joke less amusing.)

I'm not going to look at modules right now, I don't have the time. 


This looks like it's using the Energy Warrior chassis so that's what I'll be comparing it to if I think anything looks off.

Can you attach/remove an exograft to/from yourself?

I had a question about exografts but actually reading that section answered it (I had originally skimmed, there are a lot of paragraphs).

It would make me happy if Energized Exograft specifically said what the enhancement bonus was for (aka armor class) since it is also the modules kind of and you know I like being super specific.

For neural override, "Your exograft still allows you to take actions that you would find preferable to taking no action at all." is a little confusing because if you are charmed then you would find taking actions commanded by the charmer to be preferable to taking no action at all.

The Warforged ACF is neat.


Okay, the whole class is nice and I like natural weapons and the concept is cool but I fell like it's missing something.  I have no idea what that something is, maybe it's in the modules.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on May 22, 2022, 01:09:57 AM
Let me know when you're ready for me to look over the Gladiator.

Hey look at that, I guess you're ready!  ;)  (I realized after I typed this up that I gave input on it a couple of years ago, I guess that makes my joke less amusing.)

I'm not going to look at modules right now, I don't have the time. 


This looks like it's using the Energy Warrior chassis so that's what I'll be comparing it to if I think anything looks off.

Same chassis, similar concept in being a fighty type. Exo gladiator's more down-to-earth with gritty and brutal fighting compared to the energy warrior's flashier science-fantasy aesthetic.

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Can you attach/remove an exograft to/from yourself?

The intent is that it should be the same as applying a graft in that regard, which means yes. The Cybernetic Grafter feat (and other grafter feats I referenced way back when) specifically says that you can apply grafts to yourself, in addition to others. That said, exografts aren't grafts, so that's another thing that needs to be made explicit.

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I had a question about exografts but actually reading that section answered it (I had originally skimmed, there are a lot of paragraphs).

Yeah. That section kind of got away from me since grafts are rather complicated. While exografts are armor and aren't grafts, they still function a bit like them in enough ways that it felt worth spelling out as much as possible.

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It would make me happy if Energized Exograft specifically said what the enhancement bonus was for (aka armor class) since it is also the modules kind of and you know I like being super specific.

Exografts are armor. The intent is that it's the same as a normal enhancement bonus on a +1 to +5 armor, the same as magic vestment grants. It's also the same wording used for the Power Suit module. It's also similar to the Energy Warrior's 3rd-level Energy Beam upgrade, although there are some nuanced differences.

I'll probably switch it over to the Energy Warrior's ability's wording. "Beginning at 3rd level, while your exograft module is activated, your exograft gains an enhancement bonus equal to the amount of energy allocated to your exograft module. You must have an attached exograft in order to use this ability."

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For neural override, "Your exograft still allows you to take actions that you would find preferable to taking no action at all." is a little confusing because if you are charmed then you would find taking actions commanded by the charmer to be preferable to taking no action at all.

It's not making you act according to how you want to act in the moment under the effect's influence. It's supposed to be emulating your normal mental state for that decision-making. I'll add something like "were you in your normal mental state" to that overriding mind-affecting influence section to make it clear, since otherwise it only mentions that sort of thing in the fluff paragraph.

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The Warforged ACF is neat.

:)

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Okay, the whole class is nice and I like natural weapons and the concept is cool but I fell like it's missing something.  I have no idea what that something is, maybe it's in the modules.

Not surprising, since I've had a similar feeling. It's a bit of that Barbarian/Fighter "hit it hard" syndrome where the class's fantasy is just brute force and its abilities don't touch quite enough on anything beyond that. The wide variety of effects that modules offer will alleviate that somewhat, but the module list and most of the exograft modules are specifically tuned towards that concept.

I might direct you to the Grafted Origin features buried deep in the notes at the end of http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=3381.msg348079#msg348079. I was toying with them to fill some dead levels, add some abilities along a different conceptual axis, and give the class a little more baked-in flavor.
Title: Re: [PoC] Power of Cybernetics General Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 22, 2022, 02:57:14 PM
In its current form Grafted Origin has penalties which to me says it would be better as an ACF.

Another possibility for fleshing things out would be to add some gladiator related stuff (which I recognize is in Grafted Origin so I don't think it would be needed separately if that ends up being used).