Author Topic: another Thrallherd ass pull?  (Read 5890 times)

Offline JohnnyMayHymn

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another Thrallherd ass pull?
« on: June 17, 2013, 02:09:48 AM »
So lets say a Thrallherd gets himself an Artificer thrall, that thrall has rending Retain Essence (as all artificers do).

Are there any rules that would allow said thrall to break down those annoying believers (or their guaranteed possessions) for xp?

I mean warforged were crafted at some point in a creation forge..
EDIT: The relevant text here under fair use:
Quote
The artificer must spend a day with the item, and he must also have the
appropriate item creation feat for the item he is salvaging.
After one day, the item is destroyed and the artificer adds
the XP it took to create the item to his craft reserve.
Since there is no item creation feat for making new warforged, the thrall can't break them down.

Maybe grafts could work, or something that boosts a monks unarmed strike (and is poorly worded).

Remember that a Thrallherd can only decide his believers race and class

EDIT: Perhaps a race or class that specifically comes with something, like a liches phylactery, or an erudites psicrystal

EDIT: edited b/c I was AFB when I posted this

Aha! Legacy champion: "Must possess a legacy item" is a prereq, so we are guaranteed to have Retain Essence fodder for the artificer, though we may have to wait until the second thrall or have the main PC be an arty himself....

Anything better out there?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 01:09:57 AM by JohnnyMayHymn »
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: another Thrallherd ass pull?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2013, 03:07:42 AM »
WTF version of artificer is that? It's homebrew, dude... I wouldn't count on anything over at dandwiki being balanced with anything.
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Offline JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: another Thrallherd ass pull?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2013, 11:39:37 AM »
Whoops, will edit OP, afb
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Offline Gazzien

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Re: another Thrallherd ass pull?
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2013, 01:16:54 PM »
The closest thing is Retain Essence, but I don't believe you can break down constructs.

Offline Bastian

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Re: another Thrallherd ass pull?
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2013, 01:59:32 PM »
The closest thing is Retain Essence, but I don't believe you can break down constructs.
You can only break down magical items and as far as I can tell it is unclear if constructs are magical items or simply like magical items in many ways.

At the OP: You don't gain anything from breaking down anything that wasn't made by sacrificing XP. And you only get exactly as much Crafting XP as was spent, even if the item normally requires more. Also, note Warforged have no know XP cost.

Offline Garryl

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Re: another Thrallherd ass pull?
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2013, 05:02:44 PM »
The closest thing is Retain Essence, but I don't believe you can break down constructs.
You can only break down magical items and as far as I can tell it is unclear if constructs are magical items or simply like magical items in many ways.

At the OP: You don't gain anything from breaking down anything that wasn't made by sacrificing XP. And you only get exactly as much Crafting XP as was spent, even if the item normally requires more. Also, note Warforged have no know XP cost.

Constructs aren't items or objects at all. They just share certain immunities, and certain effects that affect one are specifically able to affect the other as well.

Offline Bastian

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Re: another Thrallherd ass pull?
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2013, 06:55:26 PM »
The closest thing is Retain Essence, but I don't believe you can break down constructs.
You can only break down magical items and as far as I can tell it is unclear if constructs are magical items or simply like magical items in many ways.

At the OP: You don't gain anything from breaking down anything that wasn't made by sacrificing XP. And you only get exactly as much Crafting XP as was spent, even if the item normally requires more. Also, note Warforged have no know XP cost.

Constructs aren't items or objects at all. They just share certain immunities, and certain effects that affect one are specifically able to affect the other as well.
I agreed with you until I looked further into it. The problem is parts of the rules agree with you and parts don't. The Craft Construct feat calls them items (which is likely just a copy paste error but it is how it is written) and the glossary entry refers to constructs as "animated object(s) or artificially constructed creatures(s)" (the animated objects bit is likely only referring to the creatures made by the spell, as hinted at by the srd, but does not actually specify and given the wording of Craft Construct, it is fairly ambiguous). Most everywhere else simply refers to them as creatures so as far as I can tell we are left with constructs being both items and creatures at the same time.

Offline littha

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Re: another Thrallherd ass pull?
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2013, 07:04:24 PM »
The closest thing is Retain Essence, but I don't believe you can break down constructs.
You can only break down magical items and as far as I can tell it is unclear if constructs are magical items or simply like magical items in many ways.

At the OP: You don't gain anything from breaking down anything that wasn't made by sacrificing XP. And you only get exactly as much Crafting XP as was spent, even if the item normally requires more. Also, note Warforged have no know XP cost.

Constructs aren't items or objects at all. They just share certain immunities, and certain effects that affect one are specifically able to affect the other as well.
I agreed with you until I looked further into it. The problem is parts of the rules agree with you and parts don't. The Craft Construct feat calls them items (which is likely just a copy paste error but it is how it is written) and the glossary entry refers to constructs as "animated object(s) or artificially constructed creatures(s)" (the animated objects bit is likely only referring to the creatures made by the spell, as hinted at by the srd, but does not actually specify and given the wording of Craft Construct, it is fairly ambiguous). Most everywhere else simply refers to them as creatures so as far as I can tell we are left with constructs being both items and creatures at the same time.

If I remember intelligent magic items hit this same issue from the other direction...

Offline JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: another Thrallherd ass pull?
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2013, 01:12:33 AM »
Lich savage progression guarantees a phylactery, we can Retain it's essence, and get a fresh new lich the next day!  Also, who is going to complain that you are destroying a lich every day?
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Offline Amechra

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Re: another Thrallherd ass pull?
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2013, 09:44:12 PM »
How about Humunculi?
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Offline brujon

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Re: another Thrallherd ass pull?
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2013, 09:59:42 PM »
What about gated entities? Many and more Celestials and Devils/Demons have guaranteed magical items. Granted, XP is spent, but since we're already in YBYB territory, Thought Bottle makes sure that you get that XP back. Bang, infinite crafting XP as long as you keep gating everyday. How much XP is required for a Ring of Three Wishes or a Candle of Invocation? I somehow think that you can get a positive crafting XP loop out of these...
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Offline Chrononaut

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Re: another Thrallherd ass pull?
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2013, 04:19:08 AM »
If all your believers are aristocrats, they should be able to show up carrying their own feather token (anchor), the cheapest magical item. Or else have enough gold to just go buy one for you on your orders. 2 XP per token.