Author Topic: Simulacrum & Template Stacking  (Read 2892 times)

Offline 7h39

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Simulacrum & Template Stacking
« on: December 05, 2013, 04:05:29 PM »
Hi everyone! i was reading the old boards when i encountered "Destroying The Core" a good reading but the 2nd cheese Creature Stacking via Simulacrum is missing, so i was thinking to rebuild it (and maybe creating a playable version). So.. we start from the Spell: Simulacrum

Illusion (Shadow)
Level:   Sor/Wiz 7
Components:   V, S, M, XP
Casting Time:   12 hours
Range:   0 ft.
Effect:   One duplicate creature
Duration:   Instantaneous
Saving Throw:   None
Spell Resistance:   No
Simulacrum creates an illusory duplicate of any creature. The duplicate creature is partially real and formed from ice or snow. It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only one-half of the real creature’s levels or Hit Dice (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD). You can’t create a simulacrum of a creature whose Hit Dice or levels exceed twice your caster level. You must make a Disguise check when you cast the spell to determine how good the likeness is. A creature familiar with the original might detect the ruse with a successful Spot check (opposed by the caster’s Disguise check) or a DC 20 Sense Motive check.

At all times the simulacrum remains under your absolute command. No special telepathic link exists, so command must be exercised in some other manner. A simulacrum has no ability to become more powerful. It cannot increase its level or abilities. If reduced to 0 hit points or otherwise destroyed, it reverts to snow and melts instantly into nothingness. A complex process requiring at least 24 hours, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to a simulacrum.

Material Component
The spell is cast over the rough snow or ice form, and some piece of the creature to be duplicated (hair, nail, or the like) must be placed inside the snow or ice. Additionally, the spell requires powdered ruby worth 100 gp per HD of the simulacrum to be created.

XP Cost
100 XP per HD of the simulacrum to be created (minimum 1,000 XP).
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 06:30:04 AM by 7h39 »

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: [Open Project] Fast Simulacrum & Template Stacking
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2013, 10:08:55 AM »
I am not sure what you're trying to do here, exactly... The point of that old thread was to see how close we could get to creating Pun-Pun within the core rules. Pun-Pun is basically a creature that has every ability in the D&D universe, along with infinite hit points/dice, infinite ability scores, etc. The main mechanism of doing this was using an ability from the Serpent Kingdoms book. To even try and reproduce this in the core rules, you pretty much have to be a 17th+ level wizard, likely with a high level druid/heirophant ally.

However, it is possible to "layer" creature abilities via combinations of the Similacrum and Shapechange spells, and other methods of changing shape (Wild Shape, Polymorph, etc). The core mechanism was to Shapechange your familiar into a useful creature, then make a Similacrum of that. The Similacrum would keep all traits of the original, including the things derived from being your familiar (including Share Spells, etc). You then Shapechange this familiar-similacrum into a new creature, and make a Similacrum of it. This 2nd generation now has the combined abilities of both the first two Shapechange forms. You basically keep going, using other methods of gaining abilities as needed (Wild Shape for "natural" abilities, IIRC), until you wind up with something with every ability in the game. I think there were some methods of ability score inflation also, but I don't remember how (or if) that worked.

This is all going from memory, so I might be off a bit on the details, but I was part of the original thread.
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: [Open Project] Fast Simulacrum & Template Stacking
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2013, 02:55:03 PM »
Stats might'a been:

Con goes to N.I. via Shambling Mound + near Pun cheese
Cha goes to A.H. via Awaken looping
Others also go to A.H. via Awaken, but are 1 order of magnitude lower at any point in time.
(call that Trans-Epic or ~Uber-Diety)

... except that multiple Improved Spell Capacity feats
implies strongly the potential for higher numbers, and
you also can Metamagic +Miracles/+Wishes, to do something.

Assuming the logic stands (hello kitty avatar)
I'd bump each of those up the next step:
Con = True Infinity , Cha = N.I. , four = A.H.

-- minor edits --
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 02:57:03 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline 7h39

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Re: [Open Project] Fast Simulacrum & Template Stacking
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2013, 06:26:37 AM »
Hi, thanks for the elucidation on this old goldie.

i'll move the discussion on fast simulacrum/ playable cheese on min max boards ;D