Author Topic: What spells SHOULD be Personal range only?  (Read 1394 times)

Offline Endarire

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What spells SHOULD be Personal range only?
« on: March 18, 2022, 11:28:46 PM »

Greetings, all!


A small number of spells in D&D 3.x and Pathfinder 1e are self-only, like alter self (duh), mirror image, and shapechange.  D&D 3.x and PF1e each have mechanics to allow at least some self-only spells to be made into touch range spells or otherwise able to affect other subjects.  A bunch of these self-only spells are notably powerful, such as the ones mentioned above - at least in 3.x.  However, self-only spells are inherently selfish unlike, say, haste, which can affect subjects besides the caster.


Thus, from the perspective of players and GMs, what are the likely impacts of changing all self-only spells to touch range spells and modifying their verbage to account for the possibility of affecting others?  I know that Persistent Spell (3.5) may need changing to account for this change, and the Bonded Mind/Share Spells teamwork feats from PF1e are effectively automatically granted to everyone.  What else changes?


Thankee!

Offline Power

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Re: What spells SHOULD be Personal range only?
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2022, 05:17:58 AM »
Well, I can tell you this: In PF you can use Alchemists with the infusion discovery and Druids with the Herbalism bond to make potions of personal-only range spells (and if you throw the Loremaster prestige class on top for the Secret of Magical Discipline feat, the Druid can cast every spell in the game). Then there is using Bonded Mind and Share Spells teamwork feats so you can cast personal range spells on allies as a melee touch spell. And to top it off you can use it with things like an Inquisitor's Solo Tactics, Shared Training spell, Coordinated Effort spell, or a Ring of Tactical Precision to make sure any target counts as having the Bonded Mind feat for your Share Spells teamwork feat. And in addition to that, because it uses the share spells functionality, you can even buff them with spells that they would not normally be valid targets for.

So basically, you can already hand every personal-range spell to others in PF.

But this does tend to result in silliness where people will overbuff allies because you can easily hand them a Divine Favor or Alter Self or Paragon Surge or superior polymorphing options or whatever.

In 3.5 the easiest stunts to get personal range spells is to UMD a scroll or use a Ring of Spell Storing.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2022, 07:52:21 AM by Power »

Offline Endarire

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Re: What spells SHOULD be Personal range only?
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2022, 03:41:52 AM »
Thanks!

I already knew of Bonded Mind/Share Spells which inspired this, but I was curious about whether all Personal range spells should instead become Touch range.

Offline Power

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Re: What spells SHOULD be Personal range only?
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2022, 05:08:18 AM »
No, that destroys the point of having Personal range exist. It also creates design problems when you create spells that are specifically balanced with a particular class's usage of it in mind. That said, both 3.5 and PF have their shortcomings when it comes to making sure that only members of the class in question can cast a class's spell. PF especially. So practically speaking it might not change all that much.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2022, 09:18:28 AM by Power »

Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: What spells SHOULD be Personal range only?
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2022, 02:34:24 PM »
No, that destroys the point of having Personal range exist. It also creates design problems when you create spells that are specifically balanced with a particular class's usage of it in mind. That said, both 3.5 and PF have their shortcomings when it comes to making sure that only members of the class in question can cast a class's spell. PF especially. So practically speaking it might not change all that much.

As it stands, making personal spells touch just removes a minor speedbump in access, so those who are casually building characters don't have to jump through a hoop to get it, and anyone doing any serious optimization effectively ignores the cost to use it unless it's something they need to do CONSTANTLY.