Author Topic: The Pathfinder Ubercharger  (Read 1805 times)

Offline Power

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The Pathfinder Ubercharger
« on: April 09, 2022, 05:53:32 PM »
May as well mention these stunts now:

Take a lance, which does double damage while charging with a mount (3x with Spirited Charge) and make it a +1 throwing lance, which lets you apply the Named Bullet spell since our lance is now a thrown weapon (maybe using Ascendant Spell at high levels for the extra crit multiplier, and if you are buffing pre-combat, using Sure Casting and Piercing Spell metamagic is probably a decent way to make spell resistance irrelevant), and use the Charging Hurler feat so that you can throw the lance as part of a charge. Probably a Belt of Mighty Hurling would do good too.

Now the lance is a ranged touch attack to hit the target that is an automatic critical threat, for an easy guaranteed 9x damage (12x with Ascendant Spell on Named Bullet) and a 3x damage on your named bullet damage (9x if it was a nat 20 roll).

Clearly this isn't enough for us, so we should get pounce somehow (4 levels of Weretouched Shifter or 11 levels of Barbarian with greater beast totem rage power), obtain Ricochet Toss (use Martial Focus if not a Fighter) or use a Blinkback Belt (2H weapons like lances do not fit in the belt), and throw the lance iteratively because the FAQ only prohibits getting the lance multiplier on iterative pounce attacks on the rather reasonable basis that you are aborting your momentum while collecting iteratives with a lance attack, but that means as a thrown lance attack you are still charging towards your enemy while making iteratives so maintaining charge momentum on your follow-up attacks is not a problem. Moreover, we can use Two-Weapon Fighting to throw a lance with each limb, so if we play a Kasatha race character (with 4 arms) and take Multiweapon Fighting, we can throw 4 +1 throwing named bullet lances with a pounce for 9x damage each before we even consider what we do with our remaining iteratives, haste, Rapid Shot, etc.

Anyway, I guess an 11th level character doing this sort of thing will get 10 lance attacks, 4 of which are basically auto-crit. That's pretty good, but if we add a Cyclops Helm we can make it 5 auto-crits, which is better. If we get multiple cyclops helms we can just put on a fresh helm after each combat, which is pretty nice too. And considering these are all ranged attacks, we don't need to target the same foe with every lance attack, so probably we can clear out an entire encounter in one charge.

Of course, once you use a Cyclops Helm I'd be remiss to not note that you can just auto-kill enemies with a +1 heart-piercing bow (or arrow, for 1/50th the price) or +1 vorpal weapon and declaring your die roll to be a 20 for a no roll instakill.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2022, 01:15:46 PM by Power »

Offline Garryl

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Re: The Pathfinder Ubercharger
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2022, 06:31:20 PM »
Named Bullet discharges after the first attack, so you'll only get the touch attack/auto-crit/bonus damage on the first attack. Using the mythic version only extends that to two attacks. Since you're already redrawing weapons in the middle of your full attack with the Blinkback Belt, why not just carry one such throwing lance for each attack you expect to make in your iteratives, all buffed with Named Bullet, so that every attack can benefit from the buff?

(Also, holy crap, how is a Cyclops Helm only 5600 gp?)

Offline Power

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Re: The Pathfinder Ubercharger
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2022, 07:05:07 PM »
Mainly because each lance is 8010gp so it gets rather expensive unless you're breaking the economy or using crafting with discounts. Just about the entire WBL of an 11th level character would be going into obtaining that many lances otherwise (You'd have a little under 2k gp to spare). Also, the mythic version isn't applying to two attacks since we don't have or spend mythic power on the ascendant named bullet. All we get is the boosted crit multiplier.

Also, nevermind the blinkback belt. You can't use it with lances since they're 2h size weapons.

And yes, Cyclops Helm is crazy. Not as crazy as Cyclopean Seer Oracle (esp. with a Abundant Revelations feat) though, since that Cyclops flash of insight applies to any roll. Druids can also just use Summon Nature's Ally V and hand a Cyclops a loaded crossbow with a +1 heartpiercing bolt in it for autokills. There's a whole thread on this flash of insight subject here.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2022, 04:09:36 PM by Power »

Offline dman

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Re: The Pathfinder Ubercharger
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2022, 10:30:18 PM »
Super cool!

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: The Pathfinder Ubercharger
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2022, 05:49:59 PM »
not sure if it helps, but the Sohei Monk gets mounted combat feats as monk feats, bypassing the prereqs. you can get Mounted Skirmisher w just 1 monk level
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Offline Power

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Re: The Pathfinder Ubercharger
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2022, 08:20:32 PM »
It invokes a rules debate on whether or not you count as charging when you use Mounted Skirmisher atop a charging mount and the PF mounted combat rules have always been messy. If you're not charging, it's pretty useless. You can just use a normal bow and arrow with a bunch of Named Bullet castings on arrows if all you're after is multiple Named Bullet x3 crits using ranged touch attacks, without resorting to Mounted Skirmisher.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2022, 08:31:11 PM by Power »

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: The Pathfinder Ubercharger
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2022, 10:04:25 PM »
Just checking
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Offline Endarire

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Re: The Pathfinder Ubercharger
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2022, 01:59:37 PM »
Thankee for this input!  Alleluia!

Offline Power

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Re: The Pathfinder Ubercharger
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2022, 09:23:56 AM »
Hm, looks like under PF damage multiplication rules, critical hits stack additively (so x3 = +200% damage) with multipliers, which means a spirited charge lance crit should only do 5x damage (100% + 200% + 200%). Not sure any GMs really run it this way as it makes spirited charge lance attacks deliver arbitrarily poor crits. I can understand stacking damage multipliers additively instead of multiplicatively, but I feel like crits ought to be a special exception here since making damage multipliers inherently devalue crits just feels wrong. It means a single, simple "doubling" of damage (charging with a lance or a Spirited Charge without lance) delivers less than that on average.

Well, there's another stunt for high-damage charging as a Paladin: Cast Saddle Surge and charge from max range for your CL and use Community-Minded region trait to make the morale bonuses last 3 rounds + Magical Knack magic trait to improve the Paladin's caster level. Gets better if your mount can pounce, such as a Sacred Servant with the Animal domain and a Boon Companion feat (getting a Tiger or similar) or using Monstrous Mount to get a Griffon.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2022, 10:00:00 AM by Power »

Offline Power

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Re: The Pathfinder Ubercharger
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2022, 03:31:37 PM »
So, I think I found something to make the ubercharger much better. There's a Sharding weapon property that allows you to keep the original weapon in the hand because every time you go through the motion of throwing it it makes a short-lived duplicate that splits off towards your target instead (and you keep the original weapon in hand). And unlike the Dagger of Doubling, it provides no restriction that you don't get to duplicate spell effects. So if you get a +1 throwing sharding lance, it seems you can use Named Bullet on the original lance and it keeps throwing out copies with Named Bullet on it.

The more standard use of this Sharding property cloning magic effects is with things like a Paladin's divine bond enhancement, a Greater Magic Weapon spell, Flame Arrow, etc. but if that gets to work, then a Named Bullet casting should work too.

By the way, another stunt for endless named bullets (which does not work with the lance) is Abundant Ammunition + Named Bullet to get an endless container of Named Bullet projectiles.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2022, 01:17:46 AM by Power »