Author Topic: The Omnicaster (3.5)  (Read 9919 times)

Offline KellKheraptis

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The Omnicaster (3.5)
« on: January 07, 2012, 05:28:05 PM »
Copy Paste job until I can edit in an equipment section (for seeing what it can REALLY do).

Bloodlines as one time XP expenditure (PBMC and myself's take on them) version :
(click to show/hide)

Vanilla Bloodlines as Levels version:
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Offline Garryl

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Re: The Omnicaster (3.5)
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2012, 12:07:14 PM »
Krau sigil boosts caster level only, not EBL (although psi-mag transparency probably lets it give an ML boost, even without Magic mantle). To get the bonus to +3 instead of only +2, you'll still need to take the Improved Power Sigils feat (or whatever the one is that treats your sigils as having 1 more for the purpose of bonuses). Imp. Sigil (Krau) doesn't give a CL boost, it only lets you treat a couple of spells as 1 level higher.

Offline KellKheraptis

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Re: The Omnicaster (3.5)
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2012, 07:37:42 PM »
Krau sigil boosts caster level only, not EBL (although psi-mag transparency probably lets it give an ML boost, even without Magic mantle). To get the bonus to +3 instead of only +2, you'll still need to take the Improved Power Sigils feat (or whatever the one is that treats your sigils as having 1 more for the purpose of bonuses). Imp. Sigil (Krau) doesn't give a CL boost, it only lets you treat a couple of spells as 1 level higher.

Duly noted, and will be integrated.  Also, IIRC he's still got over 20 EBL anyhow.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: The Omnicaster (3.5)
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2012, 06:40:20 AM »
I see nothing but transparency home rules and some huge oversights. Like manifesters cannot take levels in spellcaster classes, caster level boosts do no increase binding levels, and blood lines may look like LA, if drunk & blind in both eyes, but they are not and cannot be bought off as they are levels (in fact "class levels"). I'm pretty sure Anima Mage gives Soul Binding +10, not +11 if the table or the Soul Binding rules entry means anything. And you don't double count Bloodline levels no more than you're allowed to double count anything else, it gives +3 to IL not +4.5, your IL is 16 for 8th level maneuvers as a 23rd level epic PC.

Oh and
Quote from: Complete Psionic
Practiced Manifester
<snip> This feat does not affect your powers per day or powers known. It only increases your manifester level, which helps you overcome power resistance and increases the duration and other effects of your powers. </snip>
For example, a 2nd-level sorcerer with a major bloodline takes a bloodline level when earns enough XP to advance in level. He is treated as a 3rd-level spellcaster for the purpose of spell durations, caster level checks, and so forth. But he doesn't gain a 3rd-level sorcerer's spells per day or spells known.
It only has 7th level powers not 9th even with the super transparent stacking.

And so I ask.
What am I missing?

Offline JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: The Omnicaster (3.5)
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2012, 06:51:57 AM »
^^Bloodlines dont raise your character level, they are different from both LA and "normal" class levels
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Offline KellKheraptis

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Re: The Omnicaster (3.5)
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2012, 08:17:12 AM »
I see nothing but transparency home rules and some huge oversights. Like manifesters cannot take levels in spellcaster classes, caster level boosts do no increase binding levels, and blood lines may look like LA, if drunk & blind in both eyes, but they are not and cannot be bought off as they are levels (in fact "class levels"). I'm pretty sure Anima Mage gives Soul Binding +10, not +11 if the table or the Soul Binding rules entry means anything. And you don't double count Bloodline levels no more than you're allowed to double count anything else, it gives +3 to IL not +4.5, your IL is 16 for 8th level maneuvers as a 23rd level epic PC.

Oh and
Quote from: Complete Psionic
Practiced Manifester
<snip> This feat does not affect your powers per day or powers known. It only increases your manifester level, which helps you overcome power resistance and increases the duration and other effects of your powers. </snip>
For example, a 2nd-level sorcerer with a major bloodline takes a bloodline level when earns enough XP to advance in level. He is treated as a 3rd-level spellcaster for the purpose of spell durations, caster level checks, and so forth. But he doesn't gain a 3rd-level sorcerer's spells per day or spells known.
It only has 7th level powers not 9th even with the super transparent stacking.

And so I ask.
What am I missing?

Almost everything evidently.  You didn't read the vanilla version, for the lactose intolerant Omnicasters.  Nothing is double counted, it is added as it should be to each class.  NOT to each type of "magic system."  Anima Mage is adding +10 from itself, as it should, to EBL, I believe the extra 1 is from figuring Ipos into the equation automatically.  And finally, the bloodline raises IL on all classes.  As I said, the top version uses myself and PBMC's interpretation of bloodlines, the bottom one is for the ones counting them as actual levels.  The version matters not, as both end up with 9th level powers and maneuvers, every spell as a Su power, and 8th level vestiges.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: The Omnicaster (3.5)
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2012, 07:20:30 PM »
Anima Mage is adding +10 from itself, as it should, to EBL, I believe the extra 1 is from figuring Ipos into the equation automatically. ... And finally, the bloodline raises IL on all classes. ... The version matters not, as both end up with 9th level powers and maneuvers, every spell as a Su power, and 8th level vestiges.
1. "Ipos" isn't noted and I don't even know what that is. The vanilla listing, why isn't it noted in the breakdown? Correction is needed.

2. If that were true, then you're claim can be read as such: (binder 1+3, ardent 3+3, anima 10+3) / 2, uss 1+3, mon 5+3 for 23.5. I still don't see how the IL comes out to 19 or 17.5. How is this number achieved at all?

3. I came up with 7th level powers even under the super transparency and provided rules rules debunking the so called advancement. A rebuttal of "oh yeah he does" hasn't changed or proved anything. Please reread the provided rules quotes.

From what is sounds like, this isn't your build, you don't understand some aspects to it, and you are unable to provide clear answers on it. Perhaps, given the large number of errors, as you research things you'll come up with a superior build.

Offline KellKheraptis

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Re: The Omnicaster (3.5)
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2012, 08:19:34 PM »
Anima Mage is adding +10 from itself, as it should, to EBL, I believe the extra 1 is from figuring Ipos into the equation automatically. ... And finally, the bloodline raises IL on all classes. ... The version matters not, as both end up with 9th level powers and maneuvers, every spell as a Su power, and 8th level vestiges.
1. "Ipos" isn't noted and I don't even know what that is. The vanilla listing, why isn't it noted in the breakdown? Correction is needed.

2. If that were true, then you're claim can be read as such: (binder 1+3, ardent 3+3, anima 10+3) / 2, uss 1+3, mon 5+3 for 23.5. I still don't see how the IL comes out to 19 or 17.5. How is this number achieved at all?

3. I came up with 7th level powers even under the super transparency and provided rules rules debunking the so called advancement. A rebuttal of "oh yeah he does" hasn't changed or proved anything. Please reread the provided rules quotes.

From what is sounds like, this isn't your build, you don't understand some aspects to it, and you are unable to provide clear answers on it. Perhaps, given the large number of errors, as you research things you'll come up with a superior build.

It was inspired by Phaedrus, however, he never touched ToB with it.  And your math is horridly wrong.

Binder 1+3 Bloodline + 2 Improved Binding + 1 Binding Ipos +10 Anima Mage + 3 Bloodline onto Anima Mage is EBL 20 at the very least.  I had forgotten the Illumian +3, and even omitting that (as Magic Mantle can't sneak that on), it's still EBL 20.

Ardent 3+ 3 Bloodline + 10 Anima Mage +3 Bloodline + Practiced Manifester + 3 Illumian Sigil is ML 23 if stack hosed, 26 if not.  Still well over what is needed for 9th level powers.

He gets 9th level maneuvers without even advancing the non-IL classes in IL, 1 SS + 3 Bloodline + 5 MoN + 3 Bloodline + 7 (Non IL Classes) for 19.  23.5 if they are also figured to be advanced.

Aside from the EBL, I have yet to see where your issue with this is, SorO.  My math, aside from one oversight, is dead on.

EDIT : Also, on the vanilla version, the bloodline modification to each class is noted in its respective system type (IL, ML, EBL, etc).  8 levels of Anima Mage with a full greater bloodline most definitely does add 11 to both EBL and ML.  And the same is true of every other noted calculation there.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 08:25:04 PM by KellKheraptis »

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: The Omnicaster (3.5)
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2012, 09:53:19 PM »
Binder 1+3 Bloodline + 2 Improved Binding + 1 Binding Ipos +10 Anima Mage + 3 Bloodline onto Anima Mage is EBL 20 at the very least.  I had forgotten the Illumian +3, and even omitting that (as Magic Mantle can't sneak that on), it's still EBL 20.
Ipos is what? I've asked that once already :(

Ardent 3+ 3 Bloodline + 10 Anima Mage +3 Bloodline + Practiced Manifester + 3 Illumian Sigil is ML 23 if stack hosed, 26 if not.  Still well over what is needed for 9th level powers.
That is ML, and not your ability to manifest powers. You could have an ML of five billion but if your maximum power you can manifest is 7 then you're stuck at 7 and that's it was my point.

You're lack of understanding what you posted and concern to reach things meant I ended up answering this for you. Ardent doesn't technically have a power level cap. You should add that to your post, and you're welcome.

He gets 9th level maneuvers without even advancing the non-IL classes in IL, 1 SS + 3 Bloodline + 5 MoN + 3 Bloodline + 7 (Non IL Classes) for 19.  23.5 if they are also figured to be advanced.
What the hell is that? It gets 9th level maneuvers without advancing IL so I'm going to prove it by including non-adapt classes? Anyway, yes on one hand I'm saying he doesn't get 9th, on another I'm saying it's higher than 19. Am I truly saying no to 9th or am I saying the number is wrong.

As stated: (binder 1+3, ardent 3+3, anima 10+3) / 2, uss 1+3, mon 5+3 for 23.5 if Blood lines stacked with all classes.
(binder 1 + ardent 3 + anima 10) / 2, uss 1 + mon 5 + blood 3 for 16 if not.
There is no 17.5 or 19. You demonstrate 19 by stacking blood lines multiple times to Martial-only classes only which has no consistency in the procedure on why or how none-IL classes are being excluded.

Offline KellKheraptis

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Re: The Omnicaster (3.5)
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2012, 10:05:01 PM »
First off, I should think anyone posting here knows that Ardents don't have a power level cap.  Pardon my aloofness, and I am quite certain in my understanding of the mechanics being used, particularly the Ardent.  Secondly, Ipos is a vestige.  "Binding Ipos" was stated in the post you quoted, but there it is.  Now...

The numbers 17.5 and 19 are drawn from a straight +3 IL for the lumped sum of Non-initiator classes.  If this is unsatisfactory, assume in all cases to take the higher and more beneficial number.

Anything I've left out?  You've managed to catch one inconsistency in the EBL of the less restrained version, and I do thank you for that.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: The Omnicaster (3.5)
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2012, 04:59:18 AM »
First off, I'd think everyone knows I don't know psionics too well, ha just kidding I wouldn't ass-u-me you knew that.

I thought Ipos was some acronym. Because A. I don't know visage names by heart or care to memorize them. B. What kind of name is "ipos" anyway, it sounds like an acronym or apple gadget. C. The increase has no effect on who you can or cannot bind anyway so it isn't some must know visage. Oh hey speaking of that...

Anything I've left out?  You've managed to catch one inconsistency in the EBL of the less restrained version, and I do thank you for that.
And you're IL is higher now. Maneuvers may not give much scale in that area but it's more consistent and if you ever have to face a snow weird you'll want the effective +9 damage per attack with your flaming line of boosts.

Offline Amechra

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Re: The Omnicaster (3.5)
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2012, 05:41:20 PM »
I assume that you are using the Anima Psion adaptation (in Tome of Magic, there are two listed adaptations for Anima Mage; one for Divine casting and one for Psionics)?

SorO_Lost, Ardents use their ML in the place of their class level for the purpose of learning new powers. It is quite sexyful.

Kell, Ipos only adds to your EBL for the purpose of your bound Vestige's abilities, not which Vestiges you can have bound.

Other than that, I can't find any real problems...
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