Author Topic: Rules Quirks  (Read 23818 times)

Offline linklord231

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Rules Quirks
« on: March 06, 2012, 11:54:17 PM »
I can't find a fun rules quirks thread here, so I'm making one.  Post any/all interesting rules interactions, WTF moments, and things that make you  :twitch in the D&D 3.5 system!  Bonus points for cleverly naming the quirk. 
To begin:

The Commoner Rail Gun:
(click to show/hide)

The Invisible Sun:
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The Opposite of Cataracts:
(click to show/hide)

I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Rules Quirks
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2012, 01:50:01 AM »
Game mechanics
Trying to drown a [frenzy] berserker saves their life.

Ready Actions happen before their trigger happens, which can create a time paradox where the trigger never happens.

Hammer of Thunderbolts stuns everything within 90ft either when it's thrown or when it hits (and it has a 30ft range increment), including it's wielder.

Simulation mechanics
You're average NPC hunter cal follow a three day old trail of a toad even if it rained last night. I on the other hand, can't even find the remote.

Is a Masterwork Tool of Gather Information the gold you would spend on it or an expensive knife?

You're allowed a reflex save and Evasion against a Fireball dropped on you while you're sleeping or otherwise oblivious to the world around you.

Offline SneeR

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Re: Rules Quirks
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2012, 01:51:31 AM »
A necropolitan who alters self into a wraith is not incorporeal. He is just a floating sheet with a fly speed.
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3.5 is disappointingly flawed.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Rules Quirks
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2012, 07:10:54 PM »
PolySci 001
The freshmen 1 credit survey class.

Sooner or later you fail a Diplomacy check.
If this happened while Training for 1st level,
the dude hates you and tries to kill you.
You are dead.
The only reason you aren't dead, is because you never ever tried to Diplomacy something.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 07:15:06 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
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Offline EjoThims

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Re: Rules Quirks
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2012, 08:51:37 PM »
Darkness and Deeper Darkness make a pitch black cave lighter.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Rules Quirks
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2012, 06:34:28 PM »
Psionics?!  What Psionics?

Most of the psi powerpoint classes can
use up all of their powerpoints.  In which
case they become non-psionic and can
no longer access any psi feats.
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Offline dman11235

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Re: Rules Quirks
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2012, 08:56:33 PM »
No matter how long your arms are (say you're a trol who grafts his own arms to his hands or something) you still have a reach of 5'.  And yet a feat that increases your arm length by a couple inches (Abberrant Reach) increases your reach 5'.
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Offline Inari

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Re: Rules Quirks
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2012, 09:53:43 PM »
Falling damage does not care how big you are, you take 1d6 for every ten feet you fall.

Meaning that if you are of sufficient size that each step causes your foot to come off the ground by ten feet, you take damage from walking.

Offline EjoThims

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Re: Rules Quirks
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2012, 12:33:32 AM »
Falling damage does not care how big you are, you take 1d6 for every ten feet you fall.

Meaning that if you are of sufficient size that each step causes your foot to come off the ground by ten feet, you take damage from walking.

Firstly, no... That's not a fall.

Secondly, with that kind of size you'd have the Str bonus for automatic success on the Jump checks for a deliberate fall to reduce the effective fall distance by at least 10'. ;)

Offline Maat Mons

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Offline Kethrian

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Re: Rules Quirks
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2012, 08:36:45 PM »
Other defiance of the square-cube law: as weapons and armour double in size, they double, not cube, in weight.
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Offline dman11235

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Re: Rules Quirks
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2012, 09:54:56 PM »
I don't think you can call that a violation.  Small-medium-large is not double/double/double necessarily.  It could be such an increase in size so that the cube of the increase is roughly double the other value.  So it's not necessarily a violation of the law, just potentially.  In fact, I think it's about a x1.5 increase in height, average, for both of those.  Which is about a 3.4x increase.  It's still wrong, just not for the same numbers.
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Offline NiteCyper

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Re: Rules Quirks
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2012, 09:49:46 PM »
Quote from: PharaohFire, reiterating on enhanced shadow reality.
You weak minded fools! If you had the strength of will to look past his illusionary fire, you would see that - OH GOD, IT BURNS! IT BURNS EVEN HOTTER THAN THE REAL THING!
Link to the post.
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Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Rules Quirks
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2012, 12:13:45 AM »
With a high enough Strength, a Hulking Hurler can throw a universe :P
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Offline Dragonmaster

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Re: Rules Quirks
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2012, 05:48:02 PM »
There are lots, but my favourite:

Mettle violates causality.

Have character "X" with Mettle be hit by Energy Drain (or similar negative levels that can turn permanent). Assume X is hit, and as such gains negative levels... or not, depending on a Fortitude Save that X doesn't make for another 24 hours.


EDIT: Character renamed "X".
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Offline Agita

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Re: Rules Quirks
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2012, 06:26:21 PM »
There are lots, but my favourite:

Mettle violates causality.

Have character "X" with Mettle be hit by Energy Drain (or similar negative levels that can turn permanent). Assume X is hit, and as such gains negative levels... or not, depending on a Fortitude Save that X doesn't make for another 24 hours.


EDIT: Character renamed "X".
The Fort save to remove permanent levels has nothing to do with the spell that bestows the negative levels (and, for that matter, isn't "an attack that would produce a lesser effect on a successful save"), so Mettle doesn't affect said spell at all.
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Offline Dragonmaster

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Re: Rules Quirks
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2012, 04:18:56 AM »
REPLY: Energy Drain has the Saving Throw line "Fortitude partial; see text for Enervation" (a spell which, incidentally, does not descibe the saving throw for preventing a negative level from going permanent in it's description text), and also qualitatively has it's effect reduced when the saving throw(s) is (are) successful (from negative level(s) followed by permanent level loss, to negative level(s) followed by no permanent level loss).

To an uneducated layperson like me, that puts the spell Energy Drain in the category of attacks that Mettle protects against, specified by the following phrase: "...attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as a spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial)...". Every successful save against the permanent level loss lessens the effect of the attack, and the attack in itself is a spell with a saving throw entry of Fortitude partial (and as such even falls within the example pointed out by the ability description).

The fact that the saving throw to avoid level loss is actually an innate property of the negative level mechanic does not change the way Mettle is phrased, nor the way the spell is written. Sure it's obviously not intended to work that way, and how it actually is intended to work is obvious, but I have seen no indication that this is a thread to discuss quirks in the intentions of the game designers.

Also, I forgot taking into account that since the saves are separate, it's not dependent on one save, but rather on 2d4 saves. Sorry.

ON TOPIC: Noone mentioned the original paradox so far? A L10 Dragon Disciple (at least before any errata) gains the dragon type, thus disqualifying the character from fulfilling the prerequisites for the class, which strips said character of it's class features, including the one that gives it the dragon type... and yeah. Liar's paradox.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 04:26:14 AM by Dragonmaster »
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Offline Agita

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Re: Rules Quirks
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2012, 09:12:59 PM »
On rereading Energy Drain, you're... right, actually. I assumed it had "Saving Throw: None" like Enervation does, because putting a save entry on a spell that doesn't allow a save is retarded. So I guess we can chalk that up to shitty wording on Energy Drain.
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Offline Endarire

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Re: Rules Quirks
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2012, 04:20:05 AM »
A sleeping or helpless creature can't make any Reflex saves; thus, he can't use Evasion.

Offline NiteCyper

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Re: Rules Quirks
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2012, 05:10:38 AM »
A sleeping or helpless creature can't make any Reflex saves; thus, he can't use Evasion.
Makes sense to me..? Wait, I don't find anything that says "a sleeping or helpless creature can't make any Reflex saves". In fact, the rules quirk is the immutability of the Reflex save!

Sources: SRD > the Sleep spell (which leads to helpless) and Evasion (Ex) class feature.

You can't resurrect the unwilling.

However, unconscious creatures are always considered willing, so either scry and wait until she's asleep or planeshift and knock her out before abducting her.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 05:30:15 AM by NiteCyper »
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