Min/Max Boards

Ya, because you already did derail the thread. I'm sure Goongalago will appreciate you taking the high road and not messing up his thread with further profanity, insults, and rants.

I actually had to scroll up and see where this came from because I was just ignoring his posts.
He never really had anything constructive to say, and since I'm here for constructive criticism, I just skipped his childish antics once I realized that he doesn't know basic rules or feats to begin with.
I can't learn from someone like that...nobody can.
The only thing you learn from people like this, is bad habits and poor judgement.

And I never got defensive about my build, I simply explained why it was a Charismatic Fighter, and not a regular fighter.
Moving on...

Here's the thing with the repositioning weapon: Compare a +1 repositioning glaive with just a +4 glaive.

• The +4 glaive provides a +4 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls, including combat manuevers. Total bonus from weapon to reposition: +4.

I hadn't actually considered that before. Thanks for that.

I don't really see this as much different than the "one trick pony" of a fighter that you keep calling out.

It offers you a lot more options in combat, than most straight up attack-kill fighter builds. Vital Strike builds are neat, but they only focus on getting in that one big hit for 200 dmg, and anyone can build that.

...all this thing can do is AoO the world and flash a twinkling smile on the side. I mean, Whirlwind attack is really not going to get used much, if at all, in a build like this, I can imagine.

Admittedly, WW attack is pretty situational. The whole concept is to become a wall of AoO that the enemy can't get past.

Near the beginning where you're talking about the focus on Feinting....you can't Feint then Whirlwind attack so that'll never get used like that.

Correct.

A "slough of AoOs" isn't really right either, because Feint only let's your next attack ignore their Dex modifier to AC. So that's just a single attack.

With the feats listed, he gets AoO whenever anyone within his insane range makes more than a 5' move, among other situations. The AoO's are really the biggest thing about this build.

Your other listed reason for this build is the focus on flanking. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I might be as I don't know Pathfinder as well as D&D, but you can not provide flanking bonuses to allies when you use a reach weapon because...

Normally, no. 
Gang Up (Combat)
Benefit: You are considered to be flanking an opponent if at least two of your allies are threatening that opponent, regardless of your actual positioning.

Other parts of the build allow the reach to threaten.

Bodyguard doesn't seem like it'd be getting used much either as you state wanting this fellow to be in the center of the field. With your reach, your other melee allies are likely to not be adjacent to you very often,...

Good point. I think that this would be a good feat to drop, in lieu of Power Attack or Cornugon Smash.

Dazzling Display at 19 seems very very late as at that level, the penalty from being demoralized is pretty much negligible, in my opinion. You very likely could and maybe should replace with with something that synergizes off the rest of the build. I mean, you don't even have your Intimidate modifier listed, much less making any visible attempt to boost it like you as your Bluff and Diplomacy checks outside of obvious skill ranks.

I didn't assume what stats the character would have. If I was basing this on a point buy, I would have. I'll do that for the next build. Dropping Dazzling Display for Cornugon Smash.

Improved Critical for your Glaive ..... /.......Bardiche, which is the same damage and a 19-20. Only x2 instead of x3, but your aim is to crit to give allies free AoOs on your critted foes....etc

Excellent idea.
Thank you for all those ideas, those are actually very helpful and much more useful than, "this build is complete shit" which isn't advice at all, but just childish nonsense.


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If you want a charismatic fighter, you should be looking at the Bard class, Paladin class, Oracle class, or you can take Path of War's Warlord class if your group is okay with Dreamscarred Press content (which they should be, considering DSP is the only reason you might want to play Pathfinder).

The discussion that brought this forth, was that it was claimed to be impossible to make a charisma based Fighter. Not a charisma based Bard.
Also, it's all core material, no 3pp.
Anyone can make a broken 3pp character, that takes no thought process at all.

Now, onto your build, that build is total fucking shit. I mean absolute shit. You're playing a fighter who invested in mental stats over physical stats and invested in skill feats over combat feats.

You missed the part about a Charisma based fighter, I think.

The end result is that you're terrible at combat but at least you make an okay party face. Shoulda rolled a Bard then.

The challenge was to build a charisma based fighter though.

You'd've done much better on both fronts that way. All you have is feints and AoOs but feints use up actions and AoOs are made without any damage or attack behind and you are really praying your enemies will provoke AoOs from you. If you really want to play a Charisma & Int based fighter it's doable but not with that setup. Holy shit, I just saw Combat Patrol, thanks for reminding me to post it to our Worst Pathfinder Feats thread, thanks.

Well combat patrol increases my threat range by 20 feet... which can be used to... waitasec...let me bold something here...

I notice no Weapon Finesse feat with your dexterity-based melee fighter either.

Benefit: With a light weapon, elven curve blade, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.

Are you fucking kidding me?
You don't even know how Weapon Finesse works.

The rest of your entire post has just hit the trash bin, under the category of "this mouthy little windbag just likes to hear himself talk"

Also you have repositioning property on your glaive? Are you for real? That's a +3 property that gives you a +2 enhancement bonus on reposition checks (and free reposition attempts on crits). Lets put this into perspective: You already get an enhancement bonus on combat maneuver checks from your weapon's enhancement bonus, enhancement bonuses do not stack, and just to get the Repositioning property you already have a +1 weapon, which means AT MOST this will give you +1 to reposition attempts (because you have a +2 enhancement bonus competing with your weapon's innate +1), but if you just got it up to a +4 weapon instead you would have a +4 enhancement bonus to the combat maneuver. That's how disgusting awful it is. If you really want a high combat maneuver bonus, you want the Dueling (+1 bonus cost) property from the PFS field guide, which adds double your weapon's enhancement bonus as a luck bonus to all combat maneuver checks except bull rush, grapple, overrun, drag, or steal - note: the reposition is not one of these - which means a +3 Dueling weapon would give you a +9 to reposition attempts instead of your disaster of a +1 repositioning weapon.

A repositioning weapon grants the wielder a +2 enhancement bonus on combat maneuver checks to reposition a foe.

Can you please actually read the items before looking stupid?

Breastplate of Command is overpriced for what it does.

Yeah it was just for the leadership score, to be honest. There's better items...armour of displacement would be better, taking Awaken's example into account, regarding the kobold.

Ring of Friend Shield is dubious to me. It's a 2nd level spell with hours of duration and you're charisma based. Put a magic trait in Dangerously Curious (+1 trait to UMD and UMD is now a class skill), skill that UMD a bit, and invest a plain wand of Shield Other instead if you really want the spell. Now it's a 4500 gold item instead. You'll have to stay within 30 feet but it's still much better. The real use of a Friend Shield ring is to have an out-of-combat minion with insane hp and regeneration permanently take half your damage for you. If you're both going to be in combat, might as well Shield Other.

Because dropping my glaive to use a wand is better than activating a ring that's already in my hand...and the ring has unlimited use, compared to a wand?

If you're looking for a Charisma-based Fighter, you'll want the Antagonize and Cornugon Smash feats. You should also get Dangerously Curious trait to make your UMD get a +1 bonus and become a class skill. Now you can use scrolls and wands in combat. If you're going for combat maneuvers, I'd also strongly recommend Lore Warden archetype over Tactician.

Neither of those feats can use the glaive, there is no Power Attack in the build to get Cornugon Smash, and Antagonize is cancelled once the target realizes that to get to me, he'd have to run by the rest of the party. Also, the Dangerously Curious trait would mean dropping one of the two traits that make this build possible.

Heck, what level is this build supposed to be? I notice you charted 20 levels but I'm guessing you're not starting at that level.

It's a full build progression... have you ever played this game before?
I'm guessing not, since you don't understand basic feats like Weapon Finesse, and you think that a glaive fighter with Whirlwind Attack and 7 attacks of opportunity in a 110 foot diameter, isn't going to do any damage at all.

tl-dr; Change out the Breastplate for Armour of Displacement so arrows miss more.

 

I don't know how I could be more descriptive with it.

The anti-typical fighter.
Also, the coolest guy you will ever meet.

This is a male human fighter build, but can use any race that boosts Cha, Dex or Int without sacrificing anything useful to this build.
You could easily go with an Aasimar and enjoy the bonus to Charisma as well as skill bonuses where they count, and look even cooler...but that would be obvious.

Base Class: Fighter
Archetype: Tactician

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
A tactician is not proficient with heavy armor or tower shields, therefore defensive feats and a lot of versatility on and off of the battlefield is what makes this fighter such a fun class to play. Maneuvering and positioning your allies on the field, and making sure that all eyes are on you is your forté.
Off the battlefield, you will be the DIplomat, Spy, and Ladies' Man.

You will want to begin play with high numbers in Cha, Int and Dex in that order of priority.
A Charisma based fighter? WHY!?!?
Because it's cool. It's different, it's not the average one-trick pony, and I like proving people wrong. You might see the focus on feinting and diplomacy as a little linear, but the ability to move about the field and position yourself as well as enemies to your team's greatest advantage is a huge part of this build and makes him incredibly versatile, regardless of the enemy's AC or saves.
Mostly because you can play this guy like the most arrogant jackass ever and people will love you. Because you're awesome.

Strategic Training (Ex)
A tactician gains 4 skill points + a number of skill points equal to his Intelligence modifier at each level, instead of the normal 2 skill points + Intelligence modifier at each level. Furthermore, Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nobility) (Int), Linguistics (Int), and Sense Motive (Wis) are all class skills for the tactician.
This ability replaces the bonus fighter combat feat gained at 1st level.

The fighter's class skills are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

With at least a +3 modifier to his Int, he should start with;
Diplomacy (Cha)
Intimidate (Cha)
Know: Nobility (Int)
Sense Motive (Wis)
Climb (Str)
as well as 2 from Hermean Blood
Bluff (Cha)
Disguise (Cha)

Max your potential with Diplomacy, Bluff and Intimidate for use in and out of combat.
Know: Nobility and Disguise are huge advantages to being a spy, gathering information, blending into a crowd, or just looking cool when the rest of your party flounders about in the presence of kings.

Your main skills should be Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Sense Motive. If for some reason you are forced to drop a 10 into Intelligence... then those 4 skills are the ones you need for this character.

A tactician may choose Skill Focus or any teamwork feat, in addition to Combat Feats, as bonus feats. These are feats that I highly suggest, in the order taken per level. You lose out on the level one bonus feat for fighter, remember.

1 - Hermean Blood (Bluff, Disguise)
1 - Combat Expertise
2 -  Improved Feint
3 - Gang Up (As long as 2 other people are threatening the enemy, you are considered to be flanking it
4 - Outflank (+4 to flank bonus, ally gets Att of Opp whenever you score a crit
5 - Combat Reflexes
6 - Dodge
7 - Mobility
8 - Combat Patrol (Reach with Glaive is now 3 squares, and attacks of opportunity are now easier)
9 - Bodyguard (Offer Aid Another to an adjacent ally who is being attacked)
10 - Weapon Focus: Glaive
11 - Stand Still
12 - Pin Down (Opponents I threaten cannot withdraw or take 5' moves without incurring Att of Opp from me
13 - Skill Focus: Bluff (+6 by this level)
14 - Lunge (Reach is now 20' with Glaive)
15 - Antagonize
16 - Spring Attack
17 - Voice of the Sibyl (Bluff and Diplomacy get another +3)
18 - Whirlwind Attack (20' radius with you at the center... hopefully you can crit a few and offer some attacks of opportunity to Grog the Dumdum.)
19 - Dazzling Display (Intimidate all foes within 30')
20 - Improved Critical: Glaive
By level 20, you should have at least a 20 Cha. We'll use that as a base. With 20 ranks in Bluff as well as your +3 for taking the skill as a class skill, you have a base 28 with it.
Add in your +6 from Skill Focus, +3 from Voice of the Sibyl and that becomes +37
Another +5 from the Bracelet of Bargaining, and you've got a +42 to Bluff, +36 to Diplomacy and +30 to Sense Motive.

Why the focus on feinting?
Well...it's useful against high-dex enemies, obviously. It's also useful when you feint during your turn and then tear up the place the next attack with a Whirlwind Attack, or even just a slough of Attacks of Opportunity, or a decent Flank. So many reasons, you don't need me to tell them all to you.

It's not just the feinting though. It's also a focus on demoralizing your opponents, giving them negatives on their attacks and chances to fail spells, as well as boosting your allies abilities to hit and improving their defenses.

It's about getting the most out of flanking, and getting the most out of situating the enemy as well as your party so that the casters can optimize their casting as well as prevent enemy movement and enemies from flanking you.

When playing this build, you have to step outside of the thought process that the fighter has to be able to do 200 points of damage in a round to be a useful party member, or that his actions outside of the fight are limited to sitting at the bar while the other party members do all the fun stuff.

This build is for the guy who wants to be the center of attention, on and off the field. He will be the one who steals the woman, speaks for the party, and keeps the team in a position of advantage at all times.


Tactical Awareness (Ex)
At 2nd level, a tactician gains a +1 bonus on initiative checks. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels after 2nd level (to a maximum of +5 at 18th level).
This ability replaces bravery.
Who needs bravery when you've got a +10 to your initiative? You can use this to position yourself between the weaker characters in the party, so you can aid them even better since they need your support as much as possible.

Tactician (Ex)
At 5th level, a tactician gains this ability as the cavalier class feature. He may use this ability once per day at 5th level, plus one additional time for every five levels after 5th (to a maximum of four times at 20th level). If the tactician also has cavalier levels, these levels stack for determining the number of uses per day, and he can take the better progression.
This ability replaces weapon training 1.

You only need one weapon...a Glaive.  It is your friend, your friends' friend and your enemy's greatest threat in a fight.

You only have one teamwork feat, which is Outflank. Use it when the big stupid and less-charming-than-you Barbarian is flanking the enemy with you, so you can both get silly amounts of Attacks on one poor, miserable and soon to be dead enemy.

Cooperative Combatant (Ex)
At 11th level, when a tactician uses the aid another special attack, he may affect one additional ally per point of Intelligence bonus. For each ally that a tactician aids, he can pick whether to grant that ally the +2 bonus on its next attack against the opponent or the +2 bonus to AC against the opponent’s next attack on that ally, and can grant different allies different bonuses.
This ability replaces armor training 3.

It's a good thing you're smarter than the rest of the people in your party. They won't really appreciate the help, but you're awesome, so help them since they obviously need your support. If there's a Bard already buffing the party, then this just makes things a lot cooler. You can also help protect the weaker party members, (the Wizard) by boosting their defense a bit so they can retreat and cast a fireball or something.

Battle Insight (Ex)
At 15th level, as a swift action, a tactician can grant his Intelligence modifier as an insight bonus on the attack rolls made by a single ally within line of sight that can both see and hear the tactician. That ally gains the bonus until the end of the tactician’s next turn. The tactician can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Intelligence modifier.
"Grog! LISTEN TO ME YOU OAF!! Hit the cyclops in the EYE! THE EYE!! Not the... close enough."
A raging Barbarian with a bonus +4 to hit from your keen insight, as well as an additional +2 from Cooperative Combatant, is a huge thing. Especially considering neither is going to be soaked up by pre-existing enchantments. Combine this with the idea that you'll probably be able to be in a flanking position to begin with, and Demoralizing the opponent... your big friend Grog is now hitting with a +10 bonus from you because YOU ARE AWESOME, on someone who is getting a -2 to their AC because you just scared the bejeebus out of them.


Gear:
Cool clothes, a nice hat and some cologne to mask the stench of the weird crap that the party wizard insists on carrying around with him.
Tearaway clothes for disguises works well too for those quick escapes when your cover was blown during infiltrations because someone cast detect magic in the area and that pesky wizard insisted on following you to "help".
A mitrhil chain shirt will help you retain movement while giving good AC. You're not a big clumsy knight who doesn't understand the basic concept of moving out of the way when ogres are swinging logs at your head, so light armours are important to you.
Getting a Glaive that is made from Fire Forged Steel would not only be really useful when the wizard accidentally forgets to tell the party to get out of his way when he chucks a fireball into the fray, but it looks cool too. That's important.
You really are the only one in the party that understands the concept of how important movement is on the field, especially for the enemy. So buy caltrops. Lots of them. When the party is focusing on enemies from one side of the fight, drop them in your retreat zone. Enemies won't be able to sneak around and flank you as easy. Your bard will thank you when he hears the enemy trying to sneak up on him to snatch his flute, and they let out sries of pain from your little investment. The wizard can mage-hand them all up for you at the end of the fight. (See, they do have a use after all...wizards that is)

MAGIC ITEMS!!
Magic Armour...
Going for the obvious Breastplate of Command would be what most people would strive for here, and that would be correct.
Magic Weapon...
Glaive of Repositioning would be great, since your party members are usually not as smart as you are, they need all the help they can get in placing enemies where they need them to be. Even forcing them to turn their back on the rogue is useful, or herding them into a circle for the wizard to... I dunno... do wizardly things... turn one of them blue, I guess.

Rings...
Decoy Ring.
This is a must. For so many useful reasons, in and out of combat. But mostly due to the fact that you'll be the last one to retreat during fights. During combat, feel free to use this just before activating your Hat of Disguise as you waltz invisibly behind the enemy to take the place of one of their fallen comrades, putting you in the perfect flanking position.

Ring of Friend Shield
Another must-have for the real hero of the party. Wizards and Sorcerors get something like 1 HP per level, and that's before they take into account their negative scores for their Constitutions. Save them because someone has to stay alive at the end of the day to write about your glory.
If you can't find a ring of Friend Shield (or can't afford one because someone in the party just HAD to spend 50,000  gold on one spell component.) then your next best bet is a Ring of Blinking.

Ring of Blinking
Being able to sneak about the battlefield while your decoys are causing havok is very important. If you can't run between the enemy combatants to flank them, then this is your best course of action. Keep them away from the squishies in the party. Don't forget to drop caltrops along the way.

Hat of Disguise
Well who really wants to hang around and discuss the woes of infidelity when you can instantly turn into the maid and walk out of the room unquestioned, as soon as you hear the lock being fiddled with.
You can also use this in combat after activating the decoy ring, or in conjunction with a caster who has attempted to use Mirror Image. Once the bad guys see through the illusion, they tend to ignore the ones that they believe are false. Also, turning into a second Grog the Dumdum barbarian will make the other guys think twice about going melee with your group.
Millions of uses...it's my favourite item in the game, by far.

The only item I'd drop the Hat of Disguise for is a Headband of Mental Superiority.

Cloak of Displacement
Useful, considering how often you'll be drawing attention to yourself.

Belt of Dexterity
The more Dex, the better... getting more and more attacks of opportunity to save your party members from their own misguided attempts to be heroes.

Eyes of Charming
Why WOULDN'T a fighter want these!?!? God...just look at me! I'm AWESOME! Capturing the heart of a maiden wouldn't seem right if you didn't have her father's blessings, or her soon-to-be ex-husband's blessing. Yes, you understood me just fine. Use them on the men to give up the women. You won't need to use magic to get women to swoon over you.
They're also useful for other things, but who cares.

Boots of Caltrops
Eventually you'll forget that you have caltrops in your possession, but with these boots you will learn to cherish the cries of anguish that you remember from your childhood as your mother stepped on your legos. In tandem with Combat Patrol or other movement based skills or feats... these boots are incredibly underrated and overlooked as a controller's best friend.

Bracelet of Bargaining
Another +5 to Bluff, Diplomacy and Sense Motive? Ok sure why not... you can never be TOO good at something, after all. Feinting in combat is going to be easier than making Grog jealous of your good looks with this item.

Deliquescent Gloves
Because like it or not... you do have to hit people once in a while as a fighter. A Glaive  that is suddenly corrosive is really fun. Also useful for shaking hands or rubbing in the eyes of casters, and even leaving a mark on a wall as you walk by in case you have no chalk.






That's about it... everything here was off of the D20pfsrd site and constructed in about two hours. The most important part about this build is that the character should be played like an arrogant ass. Because he is.

Hope you enjoy it, I look forward to feedback!