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Messages - fuzzybits

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D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder / Not sure if persistable
« on: April 09, 2014, 08:51:26 AM »
Hey all. I have a few spells that I can't quite figure out if they can be persisted or not. I've gone ahead and organized them by book to make it easier to find. I'll update the list as needed if we can come to a consensus on it.

(click to show/hide)

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D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder / Re: A little help with persistable spells
« on: March 20, 2014, 06:14:18 AM »
Quote from: JaronK on March 20, 2014, 03:41:31 AM
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign on March 19, 2014, 09:35:51 PM
    Heart of Air = yes but its hr/level anyway and you can end it early
    Heart of Earth = ""
    Heart of Fire = ""
    Heart of Water = ""
    Lash of Force = yes can be ended early

Wouldn't these not work for the same reason Footsteps of the Divine isn't allowed?

JaronK

No, because they don't say discharged anywhere within their Duration or Description, unlike Footsteps of the Divine. Well... at least as far as I can tell. RAW seems a little fuzzy on what "discharged" means. But the consensus I've seen so far seems to lend itself to that notion.

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D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder / Re: A little help with persistable spells
« on: March 19, 2014, 10:41:23 PM »
Okay, I've updated the Maybe list and only left the spells that I honestly have no idea about. The question here is not whether or not you "should" persist it, merely is it possible to persist. And please give a reason why you think it is or isn't persist-able.

I'll also try to update the Dragon Magazine spells with the page number.

Edit: Dragon Magazine page numbers have been added.

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D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder / Re: A little help with persistable spells
« on: March 19, 2014, 10:04:23 PM »
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign on March 19, 2014, 09:35:51 PM
This thread is going like... well, one of my threads. I'm glad everyone dislikes DMs that mistakenly allow persistent touch spells. If you give me the page numbers of those Dragon Mag spells I'll do those. And what's up with the 3rd party d20 books?

I'll do the biggest chunk:
Complete Mage:
    Adamantine Wings = yes but it will end early if you want it to
    Channeled Sound Blast = No its instant
    Coat of Arms = yes but it would often fizzle by the end of a tough battle
    Heart of Air = yes but its hr/level anyway and you can end it early
    Heart of Earth = ""
    Heart of Fire = ""
    Heart of Water = ""
    Lash of Force = yes can be ended early
    Mysterious Redirection = ""
    Prismatic Aura = yes but it will be used up by the end of a long fight
    Prismatic Bow = no due to the 'discharge' mentioned
    Retributive Enervation = yes but it will be used up by the end of a long fight
    Unicorn Blood = yes can be ended early
    Unicorn Heart = "" & hr/lvl
    Unicorn Horn = yes can be ended early
    Vigilant Slumber = yes but its 12 hours long and it ends when triggered

I'm actually running through my list right now to weed out the easy ones. Though, I really appreciate the help! I'm already down to the Magic of Faerun part of the list. I'll update the list and repost once it's updated, if you don't mind waiting. (And eventually, a list of all spells you can persist and ones you probably shouldn't persist, but that'll be another thread).

The reason for all of the really obscure books is this is generated off my own spell database that I've been working on for the better part of a year. Just be glad I separated out all of the Warcraft, Diablo 2, and Call of Cthulhu spells.

However, I would argue that Prismatic Aura is not persist-able, as it says "until discharged" in it's duration.

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Gaming Advice / Re: [D&D 3.5] Persisting Backblast
« on: March 19, 2014, 09:57:06 PM »
To answer my own question, spells like Backblast are persist-able but still end when they are expended. Only spells that specifically say discharged aren't persist-able (in addition to the other prerequisites)

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Introduce Yourself / Re: Greetings from beyond the void!
« on: March 19, 2014, 11:04:38 AM »
I'd certainly be interested if I found a game to play in. Though, I'm a bit more interested in finding a Shadowrun game at some point, once I've gotten a bit more tabletop savvy.

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Gaming Advice / [D&D 3.5] Persisting Backblast
« on: March 19, 2014, 11:02:54 AM »
I'm curious if RAW allow you to persist spells like Backblast from Anauroch or  Lost Empires of Faerûn. It's to my understanding that spells that say until ______ mean they are discharged, and thus can not qualify to be persisted. However since it seems to have the 'or' conjunction, it sounds to me like you can persist spells like it.

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D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder / Re: A little help with persistable spells
« on: March 19, 2014, 10:44:15 AM »
However, I guess if you interpret this:
Quote
In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

to mean all touch spells can be discharged, which violates this:
Quote
Spells of instantaneous duration cannot be affected by this feat, nor can spells whose effects are discharged.

But I'm honestly not really caring to debate if a Touch spell is persist-able or not. I honestly choose not to believe they are for many reasons, but it's really up to a DM to decide if they want to allow it.

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D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder / Re: A little help with persistable spells
« on: March 19, 2014, 10:35:29 AM »
Quote from: SorO_Lost on March 19, 2014, 10:16:36 AM
Touch Spells already have an infinite duration and are expended the next time you touch something. Persisting them is wasted effort.

That's not exactly accurate. Persist Spell is persisting the duration of the spell's effects. So something like Aberrate from Book of Vile Darkness would, assuming you, as a DM, allow Touch spells to be persist-able and spells from that book, causes a creature to become an aberration for 24 hours and not 10 minutes/level.

And in what way do you mean they have infinite duration? Are you talking about things like Chill Touch which have a certain number of charges? Because that sort of spell has duration Instantaneous which isn't persist-able anyways.

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D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder / Re: A little help with persistable spells
« on: March 19, 2014, 07:38:28 AM »
Quote from: Endarire on March 19, 2014, 02:25:34 AM
Touch spells should have their own section.

And good to see y'all working on this now; even with the onset of 5e this year.

That's an interesting idea, Endarire. I'll definitely consider it.

Well, we still have yet to see what becomes of 5e and if it even holds a candle to 3.5e. But that's entirely outside the topic of this particular thread.

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D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder / Re: A little help with persistable spells
« on: March 18, 2014, 01:22:16 PM »
Quote from: SorO_Lost on March 18, 2014, 12:54:40 PM
I pasted your entire list into Notepad, including book notations, empty spacers, the inclusion of both Personal and Fixed Spells, Dragon Mag and 3rd party Materials, you have short list of 243 lines of information.
D&D Tools returns 710 hits for "Personal" Ranged Spells out of the 3.5 rulebooks only.

Now I know D&D Tools likes to fluff it's returns with reprints, but surely there wasn't over 500 reprinted Spells. You should cross check your list across the 45 pages listed there. I'm betting you missed a bunch.

Link

I believe I didn't make myself clear. This is just the maybe list. The list of definitely persist-able that I have is roughly 1000 spells. Not reprints.

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D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder / A little help with persistable spells
« on: March 18, 2014, 12:33:22 PM »
Hey all!

JaronK and I are currently working on putting together a comprehensive list of persist-able spells. I was wonder if I could use all of your expertise on a list of "maybe" persist-able spells. I'm not looking for missing spells here, just what spells are in fact not persist-able. If it's technically persistable but it'd be stupid to persist, please let me know, I'd like to keep track of those to.

Before we get to the list, I just wanted to attach the definition of a persist-able spell from complete arcane and state that for the purposes of this list, Touch != Fixed distance:
Quote
PERSISTENT SPELL [METAMAGIC]
You can make a spell last all day.
Prerequisite: Extend Spell.
Benefit: Spells with a fixed or personal range can have
their duration increased to 24 hours. Spells of instantaneous duration cannot be affected by this feat, nor can spells whose effects are discharged. You don’t need to maintain concentra- tion on persistent detect spells (such as detect magic or detect thoughts) for you to be aware of the mere presence or absence of the subject detected, but gaining additional information requires concentration as normal.
A persistent spell uses up a spell slot six levels higher than the spell’s actual level.

Anyways, without further ado, here's the list:
(click to show/hide)

HAVE AT IT!

Edit: Ran through all the easy spells. The rest, I honestly have no idea on.

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D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder / Re: Duration on persistable spells
« on: March 12, 2014, 10:24:18 AM »
Of course! This is a general/programmatic outlook on it. Whether a DM or the rules allow it is on a case by case basis for each spell. And I'm not trying to do any fancy tricks with the Dismissable bit, but it's nice to know that it keeps its Dismissiable quality (albeit that fact doesn't concern either of my questions). I'm just working on making a 'possibly persistable spell list' to check and post up for the boards (as well as a 'not sure but lets check for shits and giggles persistable spell list').

Thank you for the answers!

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D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder / Duration on persistable spells
« on: March 11, 2014, 12:25:39 PM »
(Sorry for the repost. I initially put this in the wrong thread.)

I have a couple of questions regarding the duration requirement for persistable spells. These are all general use questions and not about a specific spell in general. I'm working on generating a list of all persistable spells (or at least probably persistable, it will have to be actually verified).

Firstly, I wanted to confirm that a dismissible spells do not necessarily count as discharged spells, unless they specify otherwise in the spell description.

Secondly, would any thing with an until ______ count as discharged for purposes of non persistable? All relevant examples are as follows:
(click to show/hide)

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Introduce Yourself / Greetings from beyond the void!
« on: March 11, 2014, 11:59:00 AM »
Hello! My name is Bagel. I think I've played to many games to have a real favorite but I always have a soft spot for the Ratchet & Clank franchise. I only started playing D&D about a year ago but I've really gotten into it. I'm actually a friend of JaronK and I'm the one that has been working on the spell database and random encounter generator that he may have mentioned on here. Outside of gaming and code, I enjoy rock climbing, dancing, hiking, and going on random adventures. I currently live in Walnut Creek, CA, USA but this may soon change to Oakland, CA. See you guys around! :D

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