Min/Max Boards

Hm hm... yeah, that's pretty much what i found. Was going through the books again. It really seems there is no way to have a selective damage Aura without casting spells.

I am furthermore handicapped by our character creation rules: Only 2 Sources (Books) per Character to avoid stupid synergies and heavy optimization. With this character is would be NEEDED though, to have many classes/feat combinations (Always wary of multiclassing penalties though).

So i went a different way (Aasimar Bard 5/Stormsinger 5) - Even though i am underwhelmed by Bard. Always wanted to play one, but the standard Bardic Music is mostly "meh" and i can't cherry pick alternate ones from all sources - Now i just need to somehow get immune to Storms (Getting somehow Storm Walk of the PrC Stormlord on it would be nice) I mean seriously +1 CL in Storms etc. is cool... but if you weren't busy screaming and flying around and getting smashed by debris it would be nicer. 

Also: I t would be cool to be able to drop Bardic Spells for better/more music options. Maybe i can get my DM to let me homebrew a new class...

Thanks anyway though.

Hm... So naked VoP- Monk it is. Flying Kick-Charge into his face *g*

Ah well, also you can doi the same thing with him as with all wizards: Hit-and run tactics. (If you can do that) Send minions/henchmen, followers against him. Make them look more dangerous that they are - have them retreat/hide... make the enemy waste time. The wizard can ward only 4 times a day for a few minutes only, or not?

Make them waste their defenses, slow them down, don't let them rest. If they flee into other planes/teleport away - relocate, rest up, ward against teleporting in etc.

But yeah, it is never that easy. You can't move because your home/ritual/dungeon is there... the enemies just rush down before their buffs go cold... your followers cant'g get them to activate their short-term buff, or can't flee wihtout losing too many people. Ah well.

In my group every player gets one "Tip" per Int bonus of his character, per evening.

So somebody with 14 can get two per evening, my Psion can get 7 at the moment (or as i say: ALL of them)

A tip might be another player with a suggestion, point of view etc. (No rules or knowledge - that's what skills are for) or the GM, if he is nice and might want to explain something for you in detail.

Something along the line ("You could imagine the evil succubus might provide some assistance with this situation." or "You can remember your character was told that the color red would be important by the oracle ten sessions back")
Players comment often: "You know my character would do it that way and can take care of this etc." - or "We fought something like that before, last time blabla"

So effective high-int characters sometimes hear strange voices in their heads *g*

Hoi,

so, i recently peeked into an module which i guess our gm will run soon. (Yes i know... usually don't do that - but i am pretty good at seperating player/character knowledge)

Now, just to explain: This module is official, and should take characters from Level 9-11. We are level 10. I see no chance of surviving/mastering this (Well, we can always just abandon it, i guess)
We are not terribly optimized, but i would place us well above a core Fighter-Rogue-Wizard-Cleric band.

(I am Psion Thrallherd with a (weak core) Lvl 8 Cleric as thrall, we have another cleric and a barbarian dude.  Now what i read in this module is this: One of the first things expected is to enter a tomb and see what's going on/release/rouse a spirit. There is a big slab lying on the entrance which has to be removed. If this is removed a creature camouflaged as a tree will attack.

This creature is a 34HD 255 HP!!! Ancient Dragon Skeleton
It can move 40 ft. and has a +44 to attack (+60 to grapple). But the funny thing is the 300ft. frightful presence DC34, immunities and +19 on every save. The only weakness is its' lack of intelligence i guess and the possibility that we might be able to just teleport blindly into the tomb...

But i can tell you how this will go: We go there, look around, don't see anything and try to open the tomb. It will awake, if someone is in reach it will activate the frightful presence and we all will fail the save, then it makes a full-attack and kills one unlucky dude. The rest will try to get away and likely will make it.

After this there is some kind of elemental in there also trying to kill the adventurers. Later a Lich etc.
And so on, and so on.

Now: I am always surprised why people always assume that they can win every encounter (It's something of an D&D thing, i guess) and that the encounters are scaled to the party. So now i am impressed that this module gives some challenges which can't reasonably be solved directly and are seriously unfair. I like that. Than i saw the Challenge Rating for this monstrosity: 11... Eleven?

So now i reflect on the campaign so far. A while back we played the first module in that series (Tearing of the Weave) and we were getting our asses handed to us ALL the time in that too. But apparently it is supposed to be like this (Playing D&D a few years now, but i still am not accustomed to the style i guess?) It was just so many "encounters". Each and every one varied in weaknesses and immunities and surprise strength. No chance to be optimally prepared for them, so we had to take them as they came and we were burning through resources fast. So we had to rest, pretty much in enemy territory all the time and it took days to move just a few hundred meters. Pretty much a life under constant attack. 

(Kill a few dudes, maybe another set, argue about weird traps people have in rooms WHERE THEY LIVED (insanity) and then wait around for 10 hours and then rest  for 10 more.

This still strikes me as really odd. (Usually a strike has to be swift and decisive, or reinforcements and preparations strengthen the defense to a level you can not pierce anymore - also you get harassed and stalked to death.) But here we were rolling around in that dragons lair, murdering DOZENS of exotic dudes over pretty much a week or so.

Now, rant over *g*. Is that the normal pace (Read something about ~4 "encounters" a day are expected), is this just a weirdness innate in this world and system (Forgotten Realms)?

Applied Minmaxing.

Preamble:

Hoi,

I have been thinking about the different aproaches of optimizing characters for "problem resolution" in D&D.

There are so many build, tips& tricks... and flat-out insane monstrosities out there, and in this forum to excel in combat, casting, world-changing magics, or simple weird stuff like using the highest jump ever to impress people to become fanatical groupies, fastet running speed and so on.

Now my question is: How well does this work in a REAL game. Real campaigns, adventure books and so on?

Many of these optimizations are so narrow, so specialized that they need a certain set of conditions to works, certain rulings of the DM to be possible. Others are handicapped by their own "advantages". Others are fun to think up and build (I myself love to see what i can create – not only in this game, but in every game), but are utterly terrible to play.

So i wanted to ask of your opinions and experiences.

For example:

1. It is ultimately said that being large or even bigger is good for melee (Better combat maneuvers (Trip, Grapple, Bullrush etc.), possible strength-enhancements, more threatened space.) But when i played a large fighter i felt the disadvantages: Most "Dungeons" and such are build for medium  characters, i was squeezing a lot (losing speed, AC, and Attack). I was too big and shutting down placement of my collegues(taking too much space). I was giving the enemies cover from my friends ranged attacks... and i was hit alot more by area-attacks. And denying others coverage by auras and good area-effect (or didn't get them myself) – of course it is better to be able to choose your size on the fly... but how often a day can you do that?

2. Casters: While one can just say that HOLY crap, Full Casters are so much more powerful than everybody else... The limits are significant. In one campaign we were fighting through a canyon. Any encounter was such a drain on spells (ressources) that we had to take breaks ... DAYS of it... to get through a few hundred feets of a "dungeon". But the campaign itself somehow had an urgent feeling to it. It just didn't sit well with me. A Group of melee-combatants and healers might have been faster. People were saying things like: "Eh, caster has used up his once-a-day kill all spell... now he is useless". This is slightly alleviated by reserve feats of course (Damn, they are GOOD) but overall... weird feeling.
Also: until you get to the point where you can have your safeguards, contingencies and divinations: You ARE frail, you can't be alert and buffed 24/7. And you can be overwhelmed or fall for simple traps. Sure there are theoretical saves... buy you can't have them all.

3. The Level 20 build. Many builds do get amazing powers/skills/combos... but way to late. How did they get there? Some are severely crippled UNTIL they reach a certain level. How would you play such a character in lower levels until you reach the point of awesome? Being a deadweight in fear of constant threat is no fun.

4. The Tauric, Multiheaded, Half-dragon (Force), Ghost Gestalt Swordsage, Wizard, Ur-Priest, Factotum etc.: Did your DM ever said: Yeah, that sounds like a fun character to have in my campaign? I mean for more than an arena or one-shot? Like i said: Fun as an exercise, to see what this system does and does not... but pretty much unplayable. (I know my DM limits us to base ruleset + 2 books of our choice maximum at character generation to limit the silliness – Works very well so far)

So what are your experiences with optimizing and min/maxing ingame. What are your observations on practicability. What does really work? What is fun to do, which isn't weirding the other players/DM out, or breaking the game?

This is relevent to my interests.
(I am playing an old Elan Psion, Lvl 8 (But a telepath), who got levels of anarchic Initiate and Thrallherd)

I would think (Based on my experience) that if you have an used the Vigor/Sharepain/Psirystal combo, you don't need to have the enhanced Elan Resistance. I planned for taking that feat at Level 9... but the effect is mostly limited. (In our game we are usually the attackers, so i know when i have to expect trouble and have Vigor up. If surprised, I mostly have enough Power Points to survive the alpha. Also if beset by many attackers or mutliple effect... you can use it only once per round (I hate getting hit by magic missiles *g*)

I totally support your choice of having Schism and Time-hop (Time-Hop is amazing in utility) Ususally i am sending doors and such into the future

With the Psicrystal containment vs "Getting it back". Tough one. Both good... and yeah, i had a lot of situations were i would have liked more than one focus (And i only have Empower Power)

But i rely on my opening attack (If attacking HP) on an overchanneled, chaotic surged, empowered whatever to just decimate the foe. Would be nice to have a focus in the second rounde too.

Short question: Anybody has a reasonable way of having Schism last longer in mid-levels?

So far i have to say: I really like the Psion. Yours too *g*

Well, i am a german dude, nearly 30 (as of time of writing). Have been playing pen & paper roleplaying games for about half my life.

Playing D&D in a Group for a few years now. Not my favorite game, but i like the building process and overall insanity of character optimization. And this is the place i come for ideas and such. Well, have been on the old boards, but didn't post much.