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Messages - dkt0404

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1
A non-crowded room (let alone the private one suggested of average lifestyle), good food with regular consumption of meat, and (I presume) security is a very high standard of living for a commoner in a D&D world (except maybe Eberron). Unless there's some big catch, if you're believed (and the local lords aren't trying to keep their serfs from fleeing) you could depopulate villages by offering that without the leadership feat.

Yes you can.
Welcome to the Industrial Revolution!

It's not a con. They just have to do their jobs and they get those privileges. Like your typical Lord-Serf setup, if they don't do the work they get the boot.
Housing is provided both inside the fortress and out in the valley. Garrisons are scattered around the farms. Enough that an observant PC may raise an eyebrow.
This basically means the Noble Lady owns *everything* with all the implied and actual power that comes with that.

I can certainly see other Nobles investigating where their workforce went and causing problems.
Random Underdark monsters are always a potential problem in any deep mine, so potential issues there.
Discovery of the more secretive operations could be an issue as well.

Various potential hooks from a lot of things.

I still don't know for sure what alignment that mess would be.

2
that's more detailed ideas than I can up with offhand. I'd thought of the earthen channel since that's more or less what a levy is. But not so much the full industrial application in detail like that.

What I came up with was simply crop irrigation downflow. By the time it made its way through the fields I think it was down to less than 500k gallons. assuming the fields took 10k each to irrigate like I was looking up.

Source for them is the handy Artificer class. Vastly cheaper.

3
D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder / What could 20 Decanters of Endless Water power?
« on: January 26, 2020, 12:13:44 PM »
Set into a fixed construction to ignore kickback, what could that water jet power?

It's 600 gallons of water around, 6000 per minute and 8,640,000‬ gallons a day.

Suffeciant power to do 20d4 damage within 30' every round.

4
Mining and some dockwork (Since Golarion has dock cranes, and they're common enough a couple of PFS scenarios have them in run down warehouses) are the most complicated professions listed, and those two aren't even that complex.  A non-crowded room (let alone the private one suggested of average lifestyle), good food with regular consumption of meat, and (I presume) security is a very high standard of living for a commoner in a D&D world (except maybe Eberron). Unless there's some big catch, if you're believed (and the local lords aren't trying to keep their serfs from fleeing) you could depopulate villages by offering that without the leadership feat.

That's what I was thinking pretty much as well. I thought that it would be attractive to the average commoner given the more usual "barely farm enough to survive" situation that tends to be common in the medieval base material of D&D. It's not even an indentured servitude situation. Though I suppose it is still a Lord/Serf sort of situation since if they don't work they still get the boot. It's simply that they are at no risk of starving and minimal risk of being attacked.

The location is along a very large river to the west with the actual mine within a nearly extinct volcano. Eastside of the volcano (and connected mountain range) are grassy plains that are not listed as being claimed by any particular nation.

The plains side entrance has a minor road going up to it from a small town a few miles away. The mine, town and surrounding land are all controlled by the same noble.

I'm not quite sure if I should call it a mine or a fortress. Kind of a dwarven setup that combines they two. Bunch of dwarves on the 'payroll' too.

Security on the mine is provided in the form of full scale, defended castle-style gates with both organic and clockwork guards (albeit inexpensive ones via a minion crafting them).
The entire workforce will fit into the resident section of the mine without difficulty if need be, though only about 40% have permanent housing inside. This is more a function of housing density choices than 'what will fit'. They will all actually fit if the rooms aren't set for single occupancy.

Jobs consist of general housekeeping stuff, tool production/replacement, mine work, farm work, dock work, and the usual town type stuff.
In a nutshell; Production, loading/unloading, and maintenance (in a very broad sense).

The whole setup is Lawful Neutral (maybe) and run by the "evil" noble. Except she largely doesn't act evil so I'm uncertain what her actual alignment would be.

ex; She makes sure the workers are well treated and protected, there is no tolerance for abuses of power by underlings, fair punishments, ect
It's not really to be nice to people so much as making business sense to retain a loyal workforce.
This is the public and business face of the noble and what the majority of her followers would know.

Potentially 'evil' parts; she, and her organization, ruthlessly hunt down and pursues any individual (PC races) with psionic potential and slaughters them at the first reasonable opportunity. Telepaths are highest on the target list. Normal magic users using mind control magic make the list, though other magic does not.
The motivation behind this is primarily to protect the general population from being subject to mind-control. An entire town being under the control of a powerful telepath was the catalyzing event in the past. Age, race, standing; all doesn't matter. Doesn't matter if they are latent or active. Prisoners are not taken without cause and still typically face the same death sentence.
Witnesses are discouraged via cover stories. Witnesses that actually know something via spellcraft or the like are targeted, watched and killed if they become a threat.
Some of the followers that work as spies and the higher-level ones that work within the organization would be aware of this aspect, though possibly more through a code name system.

All that is done for the greater good, so to speak.

Edit: Artificer minons make things vastly cheaper when combined with Lyre and Maddoc.

5
I'm curious how much a "Good" grade daily meals and the equivalent of an 'average' (or slightly better) inn room is worth to the average commoner.
If it's provided for them for no fee, would they work for that organization with minimal pay?

IE; The roof doesn't leak (it's underground by quite a bit) in individual rooms with locks, heat, and lighting. meals basically consist of bread and pastries, beef, peas, and ale or wine and the like every day.

In exchange, they have to work the metal ore mine, the docks, river transport ships, the kitchens, and the other myriad tasks to keep the non-shifty part of the operation running.

Side note that the organization is LN/N overall even if some members are LE or NE if they aren't excessively evil and follow the rules. No CE allowed.
The mission statement is to hunt down primarily psionic individuals with a strong emphasis on mind-controlling magic. Some overlap to magic mind controlling individuals as well (some members aren't picky). I suppose they aren't villains depending on whose perspective it is.
If they just freed your hamlet from a out of control telepath, they would probably be heros. If they were seen slaughtering the latent psionic commoner in the street, probably villans.

6
Also; Lyre of Building

Hire some halfway competent bards to play in shifts and you can reasonably expect to accomplish the stronghold in record time. From years to months or weeks.

7
A straight +8 to the age category, regardless of HD and CR and such?
If that is what they do, then I suppose yeah, with the feat just use age category + 5 and that would be the ECL for a dragon cohort with the feat.

As for the template, adding to CR is not the same as adding to ECL.
Unless the template has an explicit LA adjustment in addition to a CR adjustment, then it would not affect the ECL for a cohort.
3.5 templates do not add to HD either. There are quite a few (most?) with an LA adjustment. Fiendish is CR +0 to +2 depending on HD, along with a straight LA of +2.

If there is no equivalent template with an LA between 3.5 and PF, either Rule 0 one or do not use that  PF template on a cohort. LAs tend to be (I think, I have never surveyed them) than CR increases, so I would not use a strict CR = LA equivalence, especially on the advanced template, especially if you use the rewrite version instead of the simple version.
If you need to add 1, just give the dragon a class level.

All the Pathfinder templates specifically add to CR. They don't seem to have 3.5s ECL system aside from that. Which is weird.....I thought the LA system was much more straightforward.

The advanced template is directly out of the Pathfinder monster book.
Literally all it does is +4 to stats.

A class level instead of that is an interesting idea.

Trying to convert to Pathfinder, figured I should use their templates and rules as much as possible.

8
Exactly what it says.

Say you have a locked door. Can you nest multiple layers of arcane lock onto that the same door?
If so, would you need multiple Knock spells or Dispel magics to overcome that configuration?

Sort of thinking along the lines of:
Group X wants to seal away a non-aging monster and wants to make sure the door can't be opened by anyone but them.
They cast several arcane locks, each with their own password.

Much later, evil bad guys minions go on a quest to recover each of the passwords.

Obviously this would be a fairly low-level lot since dispel magic would work just fine, but for an example, it works fine.

Secondary question; can you nest multiple magic traps onto the same door? Like if the evil bad guys try and force open or pick the arcane locked door;
could multiple magic traps go off at once on the poor failing rogue?

9
dkt404
Quote
3.x Dragon Cohort feat . . .

Non-human cohorts have an ECL equal to their HD + Level Adjustment.
For most dragons below epic level, their LA is +2 to +5.
The Dragon Cohort feat effectively eliminates that LA, meaning your dragon cohort's level is usually equal to its HD.

I have no idea how the PF stuff works, but I would suggest just a simple hacking in of the 3.5 values and using the dragon's HD and call it a day.

Actually in one of the rare instances of clear rules;

The Pathfinder ones simply say to add +8 to the age category to get the effective level.

Samwise:
I think we are saying the same thing differently.

The EL 18 dragon I used as an example would have a EL of 15 is you subtract 3 for the Dragon Cohort feat. Or at least I think it would?
Pathfinder does their dragon advancement rather differently than 3.5.
You have the base wyrmling dragon for whatever type it is. Then all the dragons add the same fixed progression on top of that. Including a fixed CR gain each category.
Pathfinder does template differently to in the sense that they add to the stats and abilities and such, but don't seem to increase the number of hit dice. They increase CR too
meaning you could, possibly, be fighting a monster with 1 HD but a 4 CR that, even though it is powerful, would die on the first sword swing or arrow shot.

The Advanced template I added since I had 1 CR left (each age category is +2 or more) is meant for creatures that are bigger and stronger than normal. It's +1 CR and a flat +4 to all ability scores.

10
i haven't seen any fast rules for monster conversion. the feats and skills are really the only thing that mechanically changed.

BTW, the pyro dragon has my favorite dragon picture of all. but the one here from the Dragon magazine, not the weird one from Draconomicon

The breath weapons and major stats seem to be the same. Red dragon is 40' in each, ect.
Bulky Pyro dragon is actually 60' o_O

The abilities though; are sharply different.

I know Pathfinder has a Magma dragon but that doesn't really match the Pyro much aside from some appearance. When I read the entry I couldn't help thinking that it was some sort of lesser pyro dragon and that the pyro would be a stronger version of it.

In terms of converting to something more akin to the pathfinder dragons, I'd maybe take some abilities from the red and magma dragon.

The specific ones I would think would match the Pyro would be Fire Aura, Smoke Vision and Superheated

Honestly the fact that the Magma dragon DOESN'T have smoke vision seems downright bizzare since it has pretty much the same issues the red dragon has (BUUUUUUUURRRRRNNNN....oh...smoke....)

So retain breath attacks, retain spells and progression, retain all the stats, convert feats and skills to PF, add fire aura, smoke vision and possibly super headed. Add Planer dragon effect.

That unreasonable?



11
Are there any guidelines for this or can it be used as is aside from skills and such?

I noticed most of the dragons have sharply different abilities so I'm not sure.

12
Also; how do you folks interpret the part about independent income.

"Income Sources: ... Each income source provides 1% of the stronghold's final price annually as pure profit
--- above and beyond labor costs and other expenses...."

To me that sounds like it may pay for all your labor costs and then 1% on top of that.
Is that correct or am I reading it incorrectly?

It would pay for the labor costs to produce that income, not the labor costs to run your stronghold.
For example, if you're next to a diamond mine, it'll pay for the diamond miners, the diamond polishers, the diamond sellers, the diamond mine guards, etc, but it won't pay for your castle cook, your castle guards, your castle pet trainer, etc

Okay. I can see the logic in that. That goes back to the sticky subject of; "If I assign followers to work as staff in a stronghold, do they need to be paid?"
Obviously any overflow would when the number of followers runs out. But prior to that?

Also, would the output of the mine increase if additional workers were hired?

And yes, they get room and board. Their own, though small, rooms and well above average food (though this is a side effect of the Luxury kitchen serving 100 people....).

As far as having the Villan have the leadership stuff and basically stick to it; it gives the villans some sort of background limit that functionally follows the rules. A small bit of an attempt at extra fairness towards the PCs as well as a potential side goal. Namely, It actually becomes possible for the PCs to run the bad guys out of minions over the long haul given that PCs slaughter them far faster than they are typically replaced.

Instead of the "oh the buy guys have an infinite number of bad guys as needed." the bad guys need some sort of at least halfway reasonable source for their resources along with their limits. With that are required sacrifices on the villain's side to get those resources. In this Villan's case, half or more of her feats are currently going to Leadership related items while the rest are the bare minimum to qualify for her classes (Assassin and Shadow Dancer; I know it's not optimal. It's a story/background choice for her)

New related question;

3.x Dragon Cohort feat reduces the effective level by 3 and makes a specific exception as a result of the cohort power level. ie; whatever it is, it counts as 3 lower.
Villan has 25 Leadership score (actually higher than 25....but caps) at level 16 as well as the +1 Cohort level feat so that any cohort can be level 15 (or the equivalent in this case). Part of this is due to me noticing that Pathfinder bumps up the dragons different than 3.5. ie; they all use the same progression but the starting points are all different.
That should?....I think?.... translate to EL15+3 for a dragon only. Everyone else would be EL15.

So EL18.

The Bestiary says, I believe, that a dragon counts as whatever it's CR is +8.

So a dragon with a base CR of 4 that is advanced to Juvenile would add +5 CR for a total of 9.
9+8= EL 17.
Add Advanced for +1 CR.

Advanced Juvenile Dragon, EL18 (though only 13 HD in actuality)

Did I mess up something in there somewhere?

13
Quote
Villains open up other wonderful options to abuse.
Either Undead Leadership (3.5) or Vile Leadership (PF) gets you flunkies that you can abuse and replace.
There are a number of "bonus" cohort feats out there - dragon and wild companion.
Heroes of Battle has a number of feats for improving a cohort and making followers more mass combat "effective".
On the PF side, even if you do not go for the full mass combat rules, you can pick up the Troop subtype, which is a variation on the Mob template from 3.5 and the Swarm subtype, to make small units of low CR grunts into CR 5-15 (I forget the full range of their examples, but about that) "monsters" suitable for mid to high level PCs to fight.

I haven't found the troop subtype. Can you give me a pointer to it's location? It does sound like a good option.
Villan isn't the Chaotic Evil sort that the Vile leadership feat seems like it applies too.
More LE/NE mix. Those are good options for some others I have tentatively planned though. I'll keep them in mind.

As far as paying the workforce during construction; the SBG actually has a rule for that already. The extra 10% you pay for the entire place is already representing the cost to setup and run  the income source. It does have an option to only setup the income source at 5% but you have to pay the other 5% before it's active. So even with the formen being specialists, they are already paid for in that cost for the income. For the -30% for the stronghold; I do see your point about paying the construction bosses there. Maybe tac on a couple percent for them? Ie; -29% or -28% instead.

14
D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder / Re: Psionics: Temporal Acceleration, Willian’s
« on: January 12, 2020, 07:48:57 PM »
Dreamscarred for 3.PF stuff, yes?


Ok it's a little complicated and includes some PF-isms I can't comment on.

And yes it's a complicated way to do a Nova, but psi can do rather tasty novas indeed.

But I think you're over-buying your combo, more discovering a very complicated way to mix things up.
(which by the way, there's nothing wrong with doing, the optimization is in the details)

Here's an equivalent that far less complicatedly-complicated does the job :
round 1) ... 12 points spent 7d6 damage
round 2) ... 12 points spent 7d6 damage
round 3) ... 12 points spent 7d6 damage
round 4) ... 12 points spent 7d6 damage
round 5) ... 12 points spent 7d6 damage
round 6) ... 12 points spent 7d6 damage
round 7) ... 12 points spent 7d6 damage

result 72 points spent 49d6 damage

And yes, Dreamscared stuff. Pathfinder/3.5.

That does sound better. I was more concerned that I was doing something mechanically wrong.

15
D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder / Psionics: Temporal Acceleration, Willian’s
« on: January 12, 2020, 06:19:31 AM »
Isn't this basically Time Stop?

Would Extend work on this? I would think so...

What about the Delay feats for powers/magic?
Is the following legal? Want to make sure i didn't miss something.

Manifester Level 16
Psionic Meditation
Delay Power
Overchannel
Extend Power

Round 0:
Swift Action;
Cast Temp. Accel+1 Augment Round + Overchannel-1 to Extend Power.
16 PP, Duration is 4 rounds. Ends on Round 5.

Move action; Regain Regain Focus.
Standard Action; move next to target.

Round 1:
Assuming next to target;
Standard Action: Delay Power; Energy Burst; Full Augment. 40' Radius Burst centered on Caster. 14d6. Damage preferably is cold for a Fort save and +14 Bonus damage. Will Detonate on Round 6.
Move Action; Regain Psionic Focus.

Round 2: Repeat Energy Burst cast sequence. Add triggerable as a standard action. Self Detonates on Round 6
Move Action: Move to next target.

Round 3: Next to target B.
Regain Focus.
Repeat Energy Burst. Self Detonates on Round 7

Round 4: Double move out of blast range.

Round 5:
Acceleration stops. Casting 1 Detonates.
Swift Action: Temp Accel, 1 Round.
Move Action: Regain Focus.
Standard Action: Move to good terrain position.

Round 6:
Temp Accel 2 Ends. Energy Burst 2 Detonates.
Standard Action: Detonate Energy Burst 3.

Power Points are likely somewhat low at this point. Should have cost 76 Power Points.

Targets should have taken; depending on location; up to 42d6+42 of *probably* frost damage.

Is this sequence permissible and legal?

Also; would the visual effect for everyone but the cast be like the other temporal spells in that the cast suddenly vanishes and is somewhere else as 3 massive explosions go for withing a fraction of a second of each other?

Functionally they should be almost simultaneous since the powers end at the start of her turn, she re-accels for a round and then the other two go off.
From the outside i would think it wouldn't be any delay.

-------
Ultimate Psionics

Temporal Acceleration, Willian’s
Discipline: Psychoportation; Level: Dread 6, psion/wilder 6
Display: None
Manifesting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round (in apparent time); see text
Power Points: 11

You enter another time frame, speeding up so greatly that
all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still
moving at normal speed. You are free to act for 1 round of
apparent time. You can manifest powers, cast spells, move,
or perform other types of actions, subject to the restrictions
outlined below.
While your temporal acceleration is in effect, other
creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and powers.
This means you cannot target a creature with any attack
or power. However, a power you manifest that affects an
area and has a duration longer than the remaining duration
of your temporal acceleration has its normal effect on
creatures in the area once this power ends.
You can affect an unattended object but not an object held,
carried, or worn by another creature. You are undetectable
by any means while your temporal acceleration lasts.
While under the effect of this power, you cannot enter
an area protected by a null psionics field or by a power or
spell that neutralizes high-level powers or spells. Normal
and magical fire, cold, acid, and the like can still harm you.
When your temporal acceleration expires, you resume
acting during your current turn in the standard time frame.
You are shaken for 1 round upon your return to the standard
time frame.
Splintered or partitioned minds within your own mind,
such as might be in effect through the use of powers such as
schism, are not temporally speeded up, even if your second
mind manifested this power (your primary mind gains
the benefit, while your second mind remains stuck in the
standard time frame).
Augment: For every 4 additional power points you spend,
this power’s duration (in apparent time) increases by 1
round.

p.251

Delay Power (Metapsionic)
You can manifest powers that go off up to 5 rounds
later.
Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic
focus. You can manifest a power as a delayed power. A
delayed power doesn’t activate immediately. When you
manifest the power, you choose one of three trigger
mechanisms: (1) The power activates when you take
a standard action to activate it; (2) It activates when a
creature enters the area that the power will affect (only
powers that affect areas can use this trigger condition);
or (3) It activates on your turn after 5 rounds pass. If you
choose one of the first two triggers and the conditions
are not met within 5 rounds, the power activates
automatically on the fifth round.
Only area and personal powers can be delayed.
Any decisions you would make about the delayed
power, including attack rolls, designating targets, or
determining or shaping an area, are decided when
the power is manifested. Any effects resolved by those
affected by the power, including saving throws, are
decided when the delay period ends.
A delayed power can be dispelled normally during the
delay, and can be detected normally in the area or on
the target by the use of powers that can detect psionic
effects.
Using this feat increases the power point cost of the
power by 2. The power’s total cost cannot exceed your
manifester level.

16
Okay, so if I understand the debate;

Generally speaking, the followers work for free. Or effectively free in the sense that whatever they are doing is assumed to be paying for their living expenses.
Barring something unusual of course.

So for the SBG, using the followers I would think would qualify for the -30% cost since they are functionally free labor.
Now the actual staff I'm less sure on. Particularly the ones that have a 30gp monthly wage.
I could see it as either they work for free for you and if you run out of followers then you have to pay for the extra staff.
Or;
You have to pay everything.

Also; how do you folks interpret the part about independent income.

"Income Sources: ... Each income source provides 1% of the stronghold's final price annually as pure profit
--- above and beyond labor costs and other expenses...."

To me that sounds like it may pay for all your labor costs and then 1% on top of that.
Is that correct or am I reading it incorrectly?

Regarding the comment about this being a 3.5 topic and it going all pathfinder;
Given the very minimal conversion work between the two (mostly just condensing skills), I see them as mostly
interchangeable.

The post about the scepter above raised a question.

Heros of Battle, p97, has a feat that doubles the number of followers.
What would that scepter likely do in addition to that feat?

The purpose of these questions are two fold.

One is to be able to use it as a player.

The second is to apply it to a major villain as a DM and functionally build their organization as an expression of their followers and cohort (or cohorts).

Personally I'm inclined to think the combo of that scepter and the feat would equal 3x the followers since if you double a doubled number, it's quite a lot more than that.

Oh; and regarding the "Villan" leader, she has roughly 50/50 split on leadership and combat feats. The stronghold is functionally a hidden reinforced and built up ore mine that she uses as her main base and the overall organization uses as a major income source to keep functioning. She's functionally a general in said organization.  If the PCs take out the mine it would be a very signifigant blow to the entire organization given the huge reduction in manpower, materials and income.
Oh, and she does have a evil cohort.

17
D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder / Leadership followers, Strongholds and payroll
« on: January 08, 2020, 01:40:32 PM »
Most basic question; do followers get paid by the PC or are they 'free' and just so what the PC asks from basically hero worship?

Second part of this; if a character has a high leadership score, 24 in this case, and is building or has a stronghold, can those followers be used for the required staff and guards? Would they then have to be paid I'd they were free before?

Not having much luck looking in the books for this answer.

Third question is about income; the independent income from the SBG is a bit fuzzy on where the income takes effect.

It says there is a profit but I'm not sure if, how it's worded, that means all the pay roll is accounted for from that I come (effectively making them free) and you get that 1% on top of everything, or if you have to subtract payroll from that 1%

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