Min/Max Boards

Hi. I haven't posted here in a couple of... very long times, but I was wondering at your thoughts on a rough build I have in mind. For the past year or so, my group has been playing 5e. We're about to wrap up Tyranny of Dragons, and our DM wants to move back to Pathfinder for more "crunch," dissatisfied with some of the ambiguity of the 5e system. (I could care less. As long as I'm roleplaying, I'm happy.)

I'll most likely end up going the Life Oracle/Hospitaler Paladin route, but in case one of our other players goes cleric, I'm thinking the Qinggong Master of Many Styles Monk and Scout Ninja.

Stats will be rolled, so no idea what they'll be, but the highest ones will go to WIS, DEX and CON. I'm planning on getting an Amulet of Mighty Fists with the Guided property. I have yet to figure out what traits to take. So here goes: (please forgive my lack of formatting)

Svirfneblin, small, -2 STR, +2 Dex, +2 WIS, -4 CHA

Monk 1 -Improve Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Bonus Style Feat - Panther Style, 1st level feat - Combat Reflexes
Monk 2 - Bonus Style Feat - Panther Parry
Monk 3 - Snake Style
Monk 4 - Ki Pool (4th level ki ability to be determined)
Monk 5 - Combat Expertise
Monk 6 - Bonus Style feat - Snake Fang, (6th level ki ability to be determined)
Ninja 1- Improved Trip, Sneak Attack 1d6
Ninja 2 - Ninja Trick - Style Feat - Wolf Style
Ninja 3 - Greater Trip, Sneak Attack 2d6
Ninja 4 - Ninja Trick - Fast Stealth
Monk 7 - Vicious Stomp
Monk 8 - (8th level ki ability to be determined)
Ninja 5 - Panther Claw, Sneak Attack 3d6
Ninja 6 - Ninja Trick - Combat Feat - Kobold Style
Ninja 7 - Kobold Groundling, Sneak Attack 4d6
Ninja 8-12 ???

Essentially, the character relies heavily on attack of opportunities and Sneak Attack. I know going human would have been a better choice, to gain Weapon Finesse at first level or rely more on STR, but then I wouldn't be able to use Kobold Style or Kobold Groundling (must be small). The svirfneblin boosts DEX and WIS, and dumps two unnecessary stats for the build. At Ninja level 10, I would take Unarmed Combat Mastery as my Advanced Ninja Trick to boost my unarmed combat, probably using a Monk's Robe to max it out. Mobility would be useful for this build also, to help Snake Fang, but in early levels there's no room, and at later levels I don't think it's going to matter with magic items available.

I imagine an encounter going something like this:

Round 1 - Charge into opponent with an unarmed strike, dealing Sneak Attack damage as per the Scout.

Round 2 - Move through opponent's space, provoking attack of opportunity. Using Panther Style chain, make a free (panther Claw) preemptive (Panther Parry) retaliatory strike before the opponent gets that AoO. Once it does, it takes a -2 to attack and damage (Panther Parry). If it hits, I can take an immediate action to make a Sense Motive check with a +2, using the result in place of my AC (Snake Style). If it misses, I can make an AoO. If that hits, I can take an immediate action to make another unarmed strike (Snake Fang). I know you're only allowed one immediate/swift action a round, so hopefully I won't have to use Snake Style all that often.

But wait, there's more! Here's where Wolf Style comes in. (As an 8th level Master of Many Styles, I can have 3 styles active at once, with only a swift action to switch styles.) If I manage to damage my opponent with an AoO for at least 10 points, its speed is reduced 5 feet. For every 5 points of damage above that, its speed is reduced another 5 feet. If its speed is reduced up to or beyond the remaining number of feet it can move on its turn, I get a FREE trip attempt. Enter Greater Trip, giving me an AoO if I successfully trip it. Aaaaand then Vicious Stomp, letting me take an AoO on a prone opponent with loads of Sneak Attack. From what I've read, these AoOs can all be made since the triggering events are different.

Round 3 - I use my swift action to switch one style to the Kobold Style chain, denying prone opponents their DEX to AC against my attacks (Kobold Groundling). Opponent tries to stand, rinse, repeat.

As a small creature, my trip attempts will be limited by my opponent's size, but with the amount of AoOs available and utilizing Sneak Attack with flanking, moving and sneaking, I'm unconcerned about remaining a viable combatant.

I don't think my DM will let me do this. It's pretty abusive of free actions. Thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Thanks for all the helpful replies!

Maat Mons, I'm familiar with the Chaos Monk but not the Rage Monk. I've actually used the Chaos monk as a dip a time or two for bonus feats on chaotic characters. However, with a single 20 level class, I'm not sure I'd be willing to sacrifice the full BAB the barbarian offers. The Rage Monk looks like it would be fun to play at a different time.

My DM said he'd allow 2 ACFs per PC. He's letting the ranger have a full animal companion progression and the UA wildshape variant, we have a cloistered cleric (dunno if he's taking another ACF - probably), and I'm not sure what the rogue is doing.

So I looked at  Dragon 349 and really like the TWF unarmed variant. If I go that route, dropping Hammer Fist seems advisable. The Streetfighter and Whirling Frenzy ACFs looked very nice also, but I'm guessing getting more attacks with Unarmed Strike is the way to go. I know it isn't optimal, but a couple players are relatively new and I thought it would be good to break out of my comfort zone.

I am keeping the Spirit Lion Totem because hey........ pounce.

So now the build is looking something like this:

Flaws: Combat Reflexes, Power Attack
1: Imp. Initiative
Bonus: Imp. Unarmed Strike, TWF (US only)
3: Superior Unarmed Strike
6: Imp. Natural Attack (US)
Bonus: Imp. TWF  (US only)
9: Leap Attack
Bonus 11: Greater TWF (US only)
12: Snap Kick
15: Flying Kick
18: ???

I'm a little confused as to how Power Attack works with an unarmed TWFighter, so any suggestions or advice along that route are appreciated. Also, what are the opinions of Powerful Charge (Mini)? Is it worth taking, or should I not bother since it only applies to one attack per charge?

Thanks again everyone!

I've never played a barbarian before, and we'll be playing a full 20 level class (no multi- or prestige classes); however, ACFs are allowed as well as feats from just about anywhere sanctioned by WotC, along with 2 flaws.

I'll be playing the traditional half-orc barbarian, but going with an unconventional Unarmed Strike focus (the back story has him brought up in the wilds with only his fists and cunning), using the Spirit Lion Totem ACF (CW) for pounce. Strength and Con will be maxed out, of course. Feats that I've chosen are:


Flaws: Imp. Unarmed Strike, Power Attack
1: Hammer Fist (Dragon Comp.)
3: Superior Unarmed Strike (ToB)
6: Leap Attack (CAd)
9: Snap Kick (ToB)
12: Battle Jump (Un. East)
15: ???
18:???

Are these decent choices for a straight up damage dealing barbarian? I was also thinking about Flying Kick (CW) which gives an extra 1d12 on an unarmed charge. Would this work for each attack on a pounce, or just one? And any other suggestions for later feats, or different damage dealing options?

Thanks in advance!

 


I dunno, 200 rpms might give you an extra d4. Might.

Sounds fun though.

Hmmm, maybe Create Magic Arms and Armor, Craft weaponsmithing to create a round tipped blade with no edge. Then craft a bladed chain to fit around the blade. Then bind an elemental to it to power the chain?

I dunno. I know I'm missing some crucial steps.


Edit: The handle (hilt) could come out from either side of the blade, allowing the chain free movement around the blade, making it a 2 handed weapon.

Quote from: WeMustBeMAD on May 22, 2012, 07:08:26 PM

Actually, the Tumble skill says that "obstructed or otherwise treacherous surfaces... are tough to tumble through." Not impossible. And if you can tumble through a square occupied by an enemy, why couldn't you do the same through an ally's square?

Quote from: Charge

You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.)

That's why you couldn't do the same through an ally's square.  Specific trumps general.  If you come up with an explicit exception to the no charging through allies rule, then you can do it.

That's why I said "The criteria is either A) you cannot charge over difficult terrain or obstacles as stated in the PHB, so no Jump or Tumble checks (unless there is no difficult terrain or obstacles, but then you wouldn't need to make the checks), unless B) you have an ability, such as Acrobatic Charge, that allows you to do so."

How does Acrobatic Charge (such as the Swashbuckler ability) apply then? Do the Rules Compendium entries make Acrobatic Charge moot, or does it work differently?

I'm sorry, I could have been a little more clear. I really didn't expect a blanket coverage of ALL Dex skills; rather, what specific skills could be enhanced by your Wisdom mod due to feats, items, class features, etc. For example, the Cloud Anchorite (Frostburn, pg. 52) grants you Wisdom of the Mountain, allowing you to add it to Balance, Climb, and Jump, but only in a mountainous setting. I know Climb and Jump are Str based, but I think you get my meaning. I've seen feats and class features that allow you to enhance or replace other attributes for features such as initiative, attack bonus, saves, etc, but not much in the way of skills. I'm just curious which ones are out there.

Hi all,

I'd like to play a ranger with a full animal companion progression, and was wondering if there are any fair trade-offs of ranger abilities, or if it is even necessary to lose other ranger abilities, since it really doesn't seem like have a full animal companion would be all that unbalancing. Also, assuming I take Natural Bond, does that change the balance in any way? This has probably been asked before, so maybe just point me to a relevant thread...?

Secondly, I came across a dinosaur called the Elgonn in Dragon #345, a 9 HD animal. http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/mainlist2.pl?name=Elgonn

In your opinions, how does this animal compare with the Fleshraker?

Maybe your DM would very nicely put a Quiver of Plenty (Dragon Compendium) in a pile of treasure somewhere. Unlimited arrows of any type you need (silver, cold iron, etc) except adamantine, which is only 5 per day.