1
Handbook Discussion / Re: [Pathfinder] Zen Archer Monk Handbook discussion thread
« on: March 23, 2012, 05:57:24 PM »
A dip into ninja seemed kind of fun to expand your ki pool options, since the ki pool is treated as one pool with options from both classes. I seem to recall there being a decent rogue talent/trick swap but I can't recall it now.
Anyhow, I tried the Sorcerer/Zen archer build recently and it seems pretty awesome (at least on paper). We made 6th lvl characters. Here is what I did. I always min/max my characters and I like it that way. Yes, I know it could be dangerous with the min stats (speficically if drained) but I like a challenge. I see the character as very mobile and fast, able to escape quickly if caught in melee or tripped. AFAIK there is no issues with doing both qingong and zen archer on the same character since wingong says you "can" swap abilites, not that you have to. Feel free to comment/suggest improvements/rip off anything here.
Human Empyreal Bloodline Tattooed Sorcerer 1 / Qing-ong Zen Archer 5.
STR 16
DEX 14
CON 13
INT 8
WIS 22 (Base 17: Human +2, 4th lvl +1, headband of Cha +2)
CHA 7
AC: 19
Initiative mod: +8
Ki pool: 9
Perfect strikes/day: 5
Why I like it:
Human: Extra feat and the skills offset my low INT.
Traits: (Religion) Wisdom in the flesh: Acrobatics and (Combat) Reactionary (+2 initiative)
Empyreal bloodline: Uses WIS to power all casting abilities. Synergistic with Monk using WIS for ki and other stuff.
Tattooed sorcerer: Gives me a familiar that can safely hide in my skin, which I took a compsognathus for the +4 initiative (of course). Also gives me Alertness for free. Also gives me +1 CL on transmutation so my enlarge person and gravity bow last twice as long. Not too shabby.
Sorcerer: Single lvl dip gives me +2 will save, more skills, light, detect magic, spark (so useful with any sort of webbing around), ghost sound, gravity bow, enlarge person, and feather fall (expanded arcana feat). Feather fall is ALWAYS good to have on standby, especially since I trade away all my monk falling stuff. Also gives me access to all arcane wands/scrolls/items without needing UMD. I do suffer a minor setback on my BAB, but nothing too serious.
Composite longbow (Str +3): An extra 3 damage per hit, yes please!
Monkey Style Feat: No Ac or attack penalties when prone. Crawling or standing up does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Succeed on dc 20 acrobatics check to stand up as a swift action. Add Wis bonus to acrobatics check (note that this is now double wis bonus thanks to Wisdom in the flesh trait). With the required 5 ranks in acrobatics to qualify for this feat I now auto-stand up as a swift action as my total bonus to acrobatics is 20. I also had to take 5 ranks in climb to qualify for the style feat, but it never hurts to have some climb.
Ki powers: Scorching ray (fire goooood) and true strike (+20 to hit with no concealment means I can hit almost anything when I need to).
Efficient quiver: To store all of my arrows, wands, or a backup bow and grant easy/quick access
Wand of Abundant Ammo: Trade 1 round of attacking to cast and give me unlimited specialized non-magic ammo with minimal investment Buy one or two of each kind of arrow and watch as the spell automagically replenishes them. (Trip arrows, Tanglefoot arrows, Adamantine arrows, Alchemical Silver Arrows, Blunt arrows, Cold iron arrows, The dreaded Slow Burn arrows, etc.)
Feats:
Human: Expanded Arcana (Feather fall)
1st lvl: Rapid Shot
Monk 1st: Point Blank Shot, Improved unarmed strike
Zen Archer 1st: Perfect Strike
Monk 2nd: Precise Shot
Zen Archer 2nd: Weapon focus (Composite longbow)
Zen Archer 3rd: Point Blank master
3rd lvl: Deadly Aim
5th lvl: Monkey Style
Equipment of note:
+1 Flaming composite longbow (Str +3)
Efficient quiver
Headband of Wisdom +2
Wand of Abundant Ammo
At lvl 6, I have +10 (+11 if 30') to hit while flurrying, doing 1d8 base +1d6 fire +2 deadly aim (+3 if 30') +1 magic weapon +3 str PER arrow that hits. Ave 13 / Max of 21 damage per hit.
Tho reading your guide, perhaps I should swap our rapid shot at lvl 1 for something else. I thought it was a requirement for something decent later on, but now I can't find it. Suggestions?
------------------------------------------------------
Edited
So I played this character through one more level before our campaign came to a halt (DM was too busy IRL). This is what I ultimately changed or added when I played it.
With my high CMD of 26 I was never grappled and if I was I was up and running away to shoot things the next round. The extra ki points also helped provide a movement boost when I really needed to get across a room and away from something dangerous, or get up onto a rooftop or elevated position to fire at things.
Ki powers: Dumped Scorching ray and True strike and instead picked up Barkskin and Feather Step. I didn't have much trouble hitting things so True strike wasn't needed and scorching ray just paled in comparison to the damage output from my bow. At lvl 8 barkskin bumps me up from a 20 to a 23 AC. Feather step is pure utility, but I figured that the whole point of my character is to be nimble and never get slowed down, so this keeps me moving (and alive).
Feats:
7th lvl: Extra Ki: For when you really need another few attacks to take something big down fast. Caster's hated me.
Zen Archer 6- Improved Precise Shot: No concealment/cover penalties unless total cover.
Zen Archer 6- Weapon Spec. (longbow): +2 damage means up to +6 damage in a round assuming all arrows hit with FOB (+2 if you use Ki for another attack).
By the end, if I had a round or two of prep to cast both gravity bow and abundant ammo, I was firing 3 shots per round doing 2d6 base (gravity bow) +1d6 fire +4 deadly aim (+5 if 30') +1 magic weapon +3 str +2 Weapon Spec PER arrow that hits. Ave 20 / Max of 29 damage per hit. That was anywhere from 60-87 damage assuming all three hit. If i used a ki point to get an extra attack and hit as well, it bumped it up to 80-116 in a single round.
I did feel kinda dirty sometimes and the GM started having all his NPCs carry javelins and other ranged weapons, which really hurt when they concentrated fire on me. I did manage to kill a poor evil cleric in a single round before he got to do anything, which was a huge help tot he party, but kinda annoyed the GM. For this character it was really all about getting someplace where melee guys couldn't get at you, then prioritizing the targets.
Anyhow, I tried the Sorcerer/Zen archer build recently and it seems pretty awesome (at least on paper). We made 6th lvl characters. Here is what I did. I always min/max my characters and I like it that way. Yes, I know it could be dangerous with the min stats (speficically if drained) but I like a challenge. I see the character as very mobile and fast, able to escape quickly if caught in melee or tripped. AFAIK there is no issues with doing both qingong and zen archer on the same character since wingong says you "can" swap abilites, not that you have to. Feel free to comment/suggest improvements/rip off anything here.
Human Empyreal Bloodline Tattooed Sorcerer 1 / Qing-ong Zen Archer 5.
STR 16
DEX 14
CON 13
INT 8
WIS 22 (Base 17: Human +2, 4th lvl +1, headband of Cha +2)
CHA 7
AC: 19
Initiative mod: +8
Ki pool: 9
Perfect strikes/day: 5
Why I like it:
Human: Extra feat and the skills offset my low INT.
Traits: (Religion) Wisdom in the flesh: Acrobatics and (Combat) Reactionary (+2 initiative)
Empyreal bloodline: Uses WIS to power all casting abilities. Synergistic with Monk using WIS for ki and other stuff.
Tattooed sorcerer: Gives me a familiar that can safely hide in my skin, which I took a compsognathus for the +4 initiative (of course). Also gives me Alertness for free. Also gives me +1 CL on transmutation so my enlarge person and gravity bow last twice as long. Not too shabby.
Sorcerer: Single lvl dip gives me +2 will save, more skills, light, detect magic, spark (so useful with any sort of webbing around), ghost sound, gravity bow, enlarge person, and feather fall (expanded arcana feat). Feather fall is ALWAYS good to have on standby, especially since I trade away all my monk falling stuff. Also gives me access to all arcane wands/scrolls/items without needing UMD. I do suffer a minor setback on my BAB, but nothing too serious.
Composite longbow (Str +3): An extra 3 damage per hit, yes please!
Monkey Style Feat: No Ac or attack penalties when prone. Crawling or standing up does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Succeed on dc 20 acrobatics check to stand up as a swift action. Add Wis bonus to acrobatics check (note that this is now double wis bonus thanks to Wisdom in the flesh trait). With the required 5 ranks in acrobatics to qualify for this feat I now auto-stand up as a swift action as my total bonus to acrobatics is 20. I also had to take 5 ranks in climb to qualify for the style feat, but it never hurts to have some climb.
Ki powers: Scorching ray (fire goooood) and true strike (+20 to hit with no concealment means I can hit almost anything when I need to).
Efficient quiver: To store all of my arrows, wands, or a backup bow and grant easy/quick access
Wand of Abundant Ammo: Trade 1 round of attacking to cast and give me unlimited specialized non-magic ammo with minimal investment Buy one or two of each kind of arrow and watch as the spell automagically replenishes them. (Trip arrows, Tanglefoot arrows, Adamantine arrows, Alchemical Silver Arrows, Blunt arrows, Cold iron arrows, The dreaded Slow Burn arrows, etc.)
Feats:
Human: Expanded Arcana (Feather fall)
1st lvl: Rapid Shot
Monk 1st: Point Blank Shot, Improved unarmed strike
Zen Archer 1st: Perfect Strike
Monk 2nd: Precise Shot
Zen Archer 2nd: Weapon focus (Composite longbow)
Zen Archer 3rd: Point Blank master
3rd lvl: Deadly Aim
5th lvl: Monkey Style
Equipment of note:
+1 Flaming composite longbow (Str +3)
Efficient quiver
Headband of Wisdom +2
Wand of Abundant Ammo
At lvl 6, I have +10 (+11 if 30') to hit while flurrying, doing 1d8 base +1d6 fire +2 deadly aim (+3 if 30') +1 magic weapon +3 str PER arrow that hits. Ave 13 / Max of 21 damage per hit.
Tho reading your guide, perhaps I should swap our rapid shot at lvl 1 for something else. I thought it was a requirement for something decent later on, but now I can't find it. Suggestions?
------------------------------------------------------
Edited
So I played this character through one more level before our campaign came to a halt (DM was too busy IRL). This is what I ultimately changed or added when I played it.
With my high CMD of 26 I was never grappled and if I was I was up and running away to shoot things the next round. The extra ki points also helped provide a movement boost when I really needed to get across a room and away from something dangerous, or get up onto a rooftop or elevated position to fire at things.
Ki powers: Dumped Scorching ray and True strike and instead picked up Barkskin and Feather Step. I didn't have much trouble hitting things so True strike wasn't needed and scorching ray just paled in comparison to the damage output from my bow. At lvl 8 barkskin bumps me up from a 20 to a 23 AC. Feather step is pure utility, but I figured that the whole point of my character is to be nimble and never get slowed down, so this keeps me moving (and alive).
Feats:
7th lvl: Extra Ki: For when you really need another few attacks to take something big down fast. Caster's hated me.
Zen Archer 6- Improved Precise Shot: No concealment/cover penalties unless total cover.
Zen Archer 6- Weapon Spec. (longbow): +2 damage means up to +6 damage in a round assuming all arrows hit with FOB (+2 if you use Ki for another attack).
By the end, if I had a round or two of prep to cast both gravity bow and abundant ammo, I was firing 3 shots per round doing 2d6 base (gravity bow) +1d6 fire +4 deadly aim (+5 if 30') +1 magic weapon +3 str +2 Weapon Spec PER arrow that hits. Ave 20 / Max of 29 damage per hit. That was anywhere from 60-87 damage assuming all three hit. If i used a ki point to get an extra attack and hit as well, it bumped it up to 80-116 in a single round.
I did feel kinda dirty sometimes and the GM started having all his NPCs carry javelins and other ranged weapons, which really hurt when they concentrated fire on me. I did manage to kill a poor evil cleric in a single round before he got to do anything, which was a huge help tot he party, but kinda annoyed the GM. For this character it was really all about getting someplace where melee guys couldn't get at you, then prioritizing the targets.