Min/Max Boards

I have nothing to add other then sheer awe at the optimizations being tossed around. Oh, and good luck Shareeth on your ultimate build

New campaign. Could be a long one. Starting at level 3. No LA races allowed. Stats are 80 pts, spread across the stats. None lower then 8, none higher then 18 before racials.

General campaign guidelines: Mercenary group, some stealthy abilities strongly suggested.

4 party group. So far we have Player 1: Elven Wizard 3. Player 2: Earth Dwarven Fighter 3(Sword & Board). Player 3: Elven Rogue2/Fighter 1(Rapier & Shield). Me: Human Rogue 1/Cloistered Cleric 2 (skill monkey/caster build)

So far this is what I've come up with.

Base Attributes   Str 8, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 16

Domains: Trickery (Bluff, Disguise, Hide class skills)
Domains: Spell Domain (+2 bonus on Concentration and Spellcraft checks)
Domains: Knowledge (gain all knowledge skills, cast divination spells at +1 CL)

1 Racial            Feat: Able Learner
1 Rogue 1         Feat: Reach Spell + Bonus Feat: Martial Study (Mighty Throw)
2 Cloistered Cleric 1   
3 Cloistered Cleric 2      Feat: Trickery Devotion

Skills I've put ranks into:

Bluff (cha) 5
Concentration (con) 6
Diplomacy (cha) 6
Disable Device (int) 6
Heal (wis) 3
Hide (dex) 6
K-Nobility & Royalty 5
K-Religion 6
Move Silently (dex) 6
Open Locks (dex) 6
Ride (dex) 1
Search (int) 6
Sense Motive (wis) 5
Spellcraft (int) 6
Swim (str) 1

I picture myself as a sneak cleric. Someone able to talk his way into/out of messes. Follows an ideal, but offers services for any of the gods.

My current hang up is my feat selection. I know I need Able Learner to keep my skill progression/growth rate from plummeting. Beyond that? I'm not certain. I don't want to fall into the sub-optimal role of 'healer' as my group still thinks in those archaic terms. I want to be able to do more for the group as a whole then just offer healing and spiritual guidance.

My feat progression selection is up in the air. I thought of going Malconvoker, but that takes a lot of feat resources. I want a caster build, not a melee build. I've done cleric melee before and my GM has accepted it, (even accepting DMM-Persist finally!) but I don't want to replay that trick. I want to challenge myself.

Any/all suggestion would be appreciated.

Oh, and here are my planned feats should the game progress far enough to allow it.

Lv 6: Touch of Healing
Lv 9: Sacred Healing
Lv 12: Sculpt Spell
Lv 15: Extraordinary Spell Aim
Lv 18: Craft Contingent Spell

Wow. My math really isn't that good. I can handle basic algebra at best. That being said, I appreciate the discussions. I suspect my players will begin to find more uses for WoS, so having a formula to figure out weight will be much appreciated.

As for the hijacking, doesn't bother me Let me see how much thought and math are going into answering the questions presented.

I've figured out the Hardness and HP. What I want to know is the weight of each 1in x 5ft sq section of Wall of Stone? I can't seem to find it anywhere and wondering if anyone has an answer

@ Rebel 7284; I will look that over, I'm wanting a very difficult to find rogue that does his thiefy goodness. A optimized mirror of the group's rogue. Also, thank you for the book where I can find the ACF.

@Halinn: I will look into this Incarnum you mentioned.

@ShubNiggurath: Thank you again for the clarifications. I am enjoying your build for the sheer 'wtf-itude' it will evoke out of my players.

In that case you can still make the build work at those high levels

Your build would go something like Whisper Gnome Dark creature LA+1/rogue 3/fighter 2/monk 2/Blade Bravo 10

Take all the flaws you can. You want

Combat Expertise, Dodge+Titan Fighting (RoS); WF(rapier) [prereq], Weapon finesse [prereq], Underfoot combat, Confound the Big Folk, Craven, Darkstalker, Dragonfire strike (DMagic), Staggering strike (CAdv) and the TWF line. The Mage slayer line and Elusive Target (CW) are also good

Take the Cosmopolitan Feat to get Iaijutsu Focus skill (Oriental Adventures) always in class and max it. Use a gnome quickrazor (RoS)

Also make sure that you take the Penetrating Strike ACF from Dungeonscape, the Spell Reflection ACF from CM and the Hit and Run tactics ACF from Drow of the Underdark

Appreciate the feedback ShubNiggurath. I can understand the Dark template, the Rogue w/ ACF from Dungeonscape, the Fighter w/ DotU ACF as well as the assorted feats initially listed.

Cosmopolitan Feat isn't allowed (Oriental Adventures is a 3.0 book)

Spell Reflection ACF from CM is nice, but you suggested Monk 2 in place of Conjurer Wizard 1/Swashbuckler 1. Is the reason you suggested Monk 2, to get Evasion back? Therefore, the build would be Rogue 3/Fighter 2/Monk 2/Conjurer Wizard 1/Swashbuckler 1/Blade Bravo 10/Add your flavor 1?

What you have given me so far is extremely useful. I will be utilizing this build as it fits the ticket perfectly. I'm mostly concerned for optimization purposes on your suggestion there

Sweet. Great ideas.

I finished my 1st game last night. Basically shaking out the cobwebs and getting party cohesion set and a direction to send them. Lucky for me, they took the bait! I will have them out of the way for the next phase of my dastardly plan! To spread chaos, divide the countries to conquer and subjugate the masses!

The human, elven, dwarven lands will bow before the might of their supreme master Yenmorttim! Mwahahahahahahahaaaaa!

Sweet! Appreciate the help. That sounds ideal for my mix!

Yeah, the build you see at the 1st. That's my current build. No DMM, no metamagics. Just stuff that helps me fulfill the roles. If required (due to another attendance issue) I will change out my Domains for Kobold and Spell. Then adjust my skills to allow me to pull the trapmonkey roll while still keeping my combat/heal monkey roles.

Heck, I can even give up DMM-Persist. Even at my most optimized, I was only ever going to be able to Persist 2 spells at most (no nightstick abuse and I kept my Domains within Wee Jas reqs). I was ready to trade it out for DMM-Quicken. In truth, I would prefer DMM-Quicken but alas.

So now I'm just a hard hitting thug that can heal

I have been talking to him. It's because of these talks that I'm getting all these roles dumped on me. Well, the talks and the fact that I am bringing these characters that he feels are over powered.

In regards to the DMM-Persist + Divine Power, my 2nd character incarnation was a rogue1/cleric 8, which is why I was able to use DMM-Persist. It is also the reason it got banned, and all I had persisted was Owl's Wisdom to be able to keep the mage healed during combat encounters.

Yes, the game is fun and it has been over a year since I've been in a game. I'm enjoying everything game wise, but would much prefer to have a character I thoroughly enjoy playing at the same time.