Author Topic: Good Uses for Permanent Image?  (Read 6822 times)

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Good Uses for Permanent Image?
« on: July 15, 2013, 12:17:11 PM »
I was looking for good uses of a Pixie's 1/day Permanent Image spell, thinking toward hostage takers using it to prevent a rescue mission to rescue their hostage.

A thread at GitP ended with this comment:
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[Image spells] are also good for making big trees and such to hide inside off. An illusionary duck blind, if you will. Since anyone inside can easily disbelief via interaction, everyone can see out.
Because everyone in the know can see out, I find that the Image spells work double duty if you use them to replicate spells like Obscuring Mist. If your friends are clued in (either an agreed-upon code word for illusions or you only USE illusions) then they can see through it just fine, but it still prevents your enemies from seeing you - and the existence of actual mist-creating spells means that they're a good chance they won't twig to the illusion, where a tree that starts shooting arrows at them will definitely give them a clue that not everything is as it appears.

How well would this actually work?  The pixie clues everyone in that a Permanent Image of dense fog is actually an illusion, and thus they get to make saves to disbelieve while inside it.  If they make their save, they can freely see through the fog.

But would someone from the opposition even be able to make such a save if they were merely inside the fog?  Fog isn't really all that tactile.  There's nothing that would cue that it is anything other than a Fog Cloud spell.  It would even detect as magical to a detect magic spell.  So far as I can tell, nothing there would trigger the ability to make a Will save to disbelieve the illusion.

Now, something that actually WOULD allow a Will save to disbelieve it would be a spellcaster looking at the illusion of fog with a detect magic spell or arcane sight, etc, and then succeeding at a Spellcraft check to note that it is actually and illusion spell, not conjuration.  At that point the spellcaster (and anyone he tells) has enough information to trigger the Will save to disbelieve.

Thoughts on my interpretation?

Also, what other great uses are there for a Pixie's Permanent Image (keep in mind, a Pixie's permanent image SLA is visual and auditory only, no thermal, etc)?

Creating images of more defenders is good, and would dilute the attacks of any aggressors.

Hiding the bound and gagged hostage inside an image of a boulder would be good.  Harder for the PC's to locate him (though my PC beguiler's ability to cast Locate Creature will help a lot, once they get close.)

Any other ideas?  Either for hostage defenders, or just in general.

Offline Clanjos

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Re: Good Uses for Permanent Image?
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2013, 12:34:28 PM »
When setting up a base in the city, create a permanent image of a refuse pile around it. Not something most people would look twice at. That's really the best guideline for illusions- make it something that isn't out of place but blocks line of sight.

Alternatively, make it look like a spell. A Prismatic Wall illusion is a good example- without ranks in Spellcraft, they'll have no idea what's going on. That's really best for an escape, though.
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Good Uses for Permanent Image?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2013, 04:21:58 PM »
A sign that says "Kill me for XP" on the Fighter's armor.
Another sign for the Wizard, "Throw me off a cliff and I'll return more powerful than ever."
:D

Offline dna1

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Re: Good Uses for Permanent Image?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2013, 04:53:54 PM »
Use the image to cover a giant pit?


For the fog cloud. Real fog you can interact with just a bit, like smoke, it can be blown away etc. So the only way I could see allowing the will save for disbelieving is if the person made a int check to notice something was different about this fog. Or if they tried a gust of wind spell etc.

With detect magic or arcane sight it would appear still magical. But with a high enough spellcraft roll you could determine what it really was.
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Offline PsyBomb

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Re: Good Uses for Permanent Image?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2013, 11:13:50 PM »
Used a few of these in a Kobold lair, they had a sorc hiding away passages behind images.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Good Uses for Permanent Image?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2013, 11:20:11 PM »
I think they'd definitely get a save if they went into the illusionary cloud. Even if it doesn't make sense, I think as far as the rules go, that should count as "interacting" with it.

And as for good Illusions, really nasty incorporeal creatures. They don't need sound effects, and if your sword passes through them you figure you just missed due to their incorporeal nature. So it might take a while for them to catch on. Now to make this double-plus nasty, throw this down with a few real incorporeal creatures (like say 5 illusions for every one real). :D
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Offline dna1

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Re: Good Uses for Permanent Image?
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2013, 11:45:37 PM »
I think they'd definitely get a save if they went into the illusionary cloud. Even if it doesn't make sense, I think as far as the rules go, that should count as "interacting" with it.

And as for good Illusions, really nasty incorporeal creatures. They don't need sound effects, and if your sword passes through them you figure you just missed due to their incorporeal nature. So it might take a while for them to catch on. Now to make this double-plus nasty, throw this down with a few real incorporeal creatures (like say 5 illusions for every one real). :D

Ya but the image is static unless your concentrating on it. So if your planning on sitting back and toying with people that could be good. But not really if you wanted to leave it like a guard dog.
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Offline brujon

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Re: Good Uses for Permanent Image?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2013, 12:11:07 AM »
Double-layer illusions are always an old favorite. They disbelieve the first one, the second one is assumed to be real. Works great with puzzles.

- Illusion of a floor over a pit. Beneath that illusion, an illusion of a wooden path through the pit.

- Illusion of a wall covering a wall, with explosive runes written on it. Only get those with true seeing!

- Paintings are never something anyone bother checking. Illusion of a painting over a window, for spying purposes.

- Use illusions over signs. Make the real signs the illusions, while the signs beneath are deathtraps. Mix and match for fun.
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Offline dna1

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Re: Good Uses for Permanent Image?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2013, 12:23:51 AM »


- Illusion of a floor over a pit. Beneath that illusion, an illusion of a wooden path through the pit.

- Illusion of a wall covering a wall, with explosive runes written on it. Only get those with true seeing!

- Paintings are never something anyone bother checking. Illusion of a painting over a window, for spying purposes.


Lol nice.. I'll have to remember to double up on the illusions haha
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Offline brujon

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Re: Good Uses for Permanent Image?
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2013, 12:27:39 AM »
Yeah, it's straight up evil. It really forces you to use mundane detection methods (because they'll always foil the illusions). Remember the olden days of using magnets sovereign glued to 10ft poles, lots and lots of marbles and rock throwing, the tried and true grey bag of tricks, looking at something with and without true seeing... Fun times, fun times.
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Offline nijineko

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Re: Good Uses for Permanent Image?
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2013, 05:30:30 PM »
Yeah, it's straight up evil. It really forces you to use mundane detection methods (because they'll always foil the illusions). Remember the olden days of using magnets sovereign glued to 10ft poles, lots and lots of marbles and rock throwing, the tried and true grey bag of tricks, looking at something with and without true seeing... Fun times, fun times.

and then trap the stuff that they throw things into. ^^