Author Topic: Injury Variant pitfalls  (Read 2187 times)

Offline Nytemare3701

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Injury Variant pitfalls
« on: July 28, 2013, 10:28:30 AM »
Our group (I'm currently DMing, and I bring fresh tweaks to the rules for the players perusal after every adventure arc) is currently using the Injury system after having tried the Vitality/Wound point system and finding it lacking. After about 2 months of games, we've made the following change:

"An Injury Check is Base Fortitude+Stat that governs HP (Usually CON)+1/5 extra hitpoints from non-hd sources. Abilities that change your use of CON for HP to another stat use the new stat for Injury Checks.

This has been working out pretty well, but now we've hit another snag: Healing. Specifically, fast healing. Fast healing in the injury system is "remove 1 injury per 5 points healed, MINIMUM 1 INJURY"

That last line got pretty insane. It basically reads "Characters with fast healing cannot be downed except by a freak accident" (seriously, they are level 8, and the hardest hitting enemy in the campaign so far landed a full strength power attack for a little over 50 damage. That's a DC 25. The party averages 8 to the save, making it a 17. You have to fail by 10 or more to be downed.)
THEN: The enemy must land an additional hit (failure by any amount works here) to put the player at dying. If the enemy fails here, fast healing picks the player up as if nothing ever happened
THEN: The player must fail a save vs death (A laughably easy 10+rounds dying). The weird part here is that getting one shot makes it EASIER to get back up, since your injuries apply to this, and succeeding stabilizes you

First proposed rule: Fast healing is cumulative (a d6 sitting on your character sheet), meaning every 5 points heals an injury. (this makes healing less of an autorez and more of a way to get up if ignored or protected)
Second proposed rule: The Dying state does not use your bonuses to injury checks, and fast healing does not automatically stabilize you (but it does still remove injuries, making the save easier). (This makes bleeding out a possibility, and your mortality rate from the Dying state starts at 50% on good day and just gets worse if you don't get any help, but fast healing could still save you if you hold on long enough)
Third Proposed rule: Getting dropped with no injuries automatically sends you to the Dying state. (the variant suggests failing by 20 or more does this, but honestly, who does that?)

EDIT: I just realized I posted this in Minmax. Instead of asking for a relocation however, I'd like it to remain here so people can discuss it in a current game perspective as opposed to a homebrew vacuum.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 01:51:43 PM by Nytemare3701 »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Injury Variant pitfalls
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2013, 10:32:12 AM »
Question: why would making a new save affect Divine Grace in the slightest?

Quote
Divine Grace (Su): At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

It would still apply. Besides, Paladins are meant to be hard to kill, it's kinda the reason they have it. :p

Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: Injury Variant pitfalls
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2013, 10:36:44 AM »
Question: why would making a new save affect Divine Grace in the slightest?

Quote
Divine Grace (Su): At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

It would still apply. Besides, Paladins are meant to be hard to kill, it's kinda the reason they have it. :p

I'm assuming that was a jab at me calling it a saving throw, since I'm pretty sure you know I don't intend for existing mechanics to mess with it.

As for paladins being hard to kill? Hard to kill is fine, but "I have to do 3x his natural HP in one hit to even have a chance" is more than overkill. (I'm not kidding, we had a paladin tank a creature that was 4CR higher than him, and he was injured ONCE.)

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Injury Variant pitfalls
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2013, 11:58:41 AM »
What's the reason to use the Injury rule?  I played M&M a bit, which uses a version of this, as do some other True20 games.  After I got used to it I started to like it a bit, although it can make things less predictable than hp do.  But, I'd be really leery about importing it into existing monster mechanics as they aren't balanced around it. 

I'd probably look at M&M 3E's Regeneration (they have an SRD) to see how you want to use fast healing.  Make it more like that. 

Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: Injury Variant pitfalls
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2013, 12:11:28 PM »
What's the reason to use the Injury rule?  I played M&M a bit, which uses a version of this, as do some other True20 games.  After I got used to it I started to like it a bit, although it can make things less predictable than hp do.  But, I'd be really leery about importing it into existing monster mechanics as they aren't balanced around it. 

I'd probably look at M&M 3E's Regeneration (they have an SRD) to see how you want to use fast healing.  Make it more like that.

We started using Injury to trade out the predictable "You take X damage" for the tension of not knowing if you can afford to take the next hit.