Author Topic: Building a Buffbot in Core.  (Read 2540 times)

Offline DeclineToDisclose

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Building a Buffbot in Core.
« on: October 04, 2013, 02:28:59 PM »
One of my friends (my regular DM) is trying to introduce a new group to D&D. He's decided to run a basic dungeon crawl module (though he won't tell me which one, just that it's not too Gygaxian  :tongue) and has asked me to play with them to help them find their feet. To this end, I'm looking at playing a buffbot/force-multiplier. I normally play moderately optimised beatsticks, so this will be a nice change of pace.

The basic setup is 4 newbies + me. Party composition is yet to be determined, but I want to make sure that their party can stand on it's own feet without my character (I'm just there to help). We'll be starting at level 5, and although progression with him tends to be quite quick, it's unlikely we'll get past the low teens. Only Core books are allowed.
The DM and I have an agreement that save or dies are not to be used unless necessary to prevent the death of one or more party members. Similarly, Leadership and PAO are out. Alter Self and Polymorph are tentatively allowed, but abuse will be met with retribution. Essentially his rule as DM is 'if you can do it, so can I' - so I'd like to keep the cheese to a minimum.

How can I build an effective buffbot in core, and what spells are effective? I'm familiar with the common ones (enlarge person,  [animal]'s [attribute], haste), but many of those seem inefficient at whole-party buffing in the mid level range (haste being the exception). Clerics don't seem to get many non-personal buffs a these levels (apart from [animal]'s [attribute]), either. Bardic music is decent, but difficult to improve enough to be useful in core.
BFC wizard is an option, but It's not something I'm particularly good at, and I don't know if the other party members would be able to take advantage of it anyway. The same goes for debuffing. BFC and debuffing also risk DM retribution if taken too far; I want to make sure the DM leaves the kid gloves on for the other players.

I guess my main question is how can I buff effectively in core (without relying too heavily on BFC or debuffs)?

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Building a Buffbot in Core.
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2013, 03:06:33 PM »
I don't recall any In-combat + Healbot + Core Only builds.

Out-of-combat + Healbot + Core requires only Custom Magic Items
that work r.a.i. and follow what later magic items do.

I assume by Buffbot , you mean not the Healbot side of things.
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline DeclineToDisclose

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Re: Building a Buffbot in Core.
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2013, 10:46:41 PM »
Yeah, I'd try to avoid healbot as much as possible. It's best not to teach them bad habits. Then again, having one or two healing spells stashed away for emergencies may not be a bad idea, but I wouldn't want to focus on healing.

By buffbot I mean a character that focuses on buffing his party to make them more effective rather than attacking directly himself. Some battlefield control can be useful to complement this, but I don't think I have the skill to use it effectively enough to justify focusing on it.

Offline CaptRory

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Re: Building a Buffbot in Core.
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2013, 05:00:34 AM »
Buffing is about putting your finger on the scale. You tip things in favor of the party by enhancing the members.

Battlefield Control is about dividing and conquering or getting tactical superiority. This means dropping a wall spell and splitting the enemies in half, using something like glitterdust and dividing the enemy between those who make their save and those who don't, or slowing the enemy down by throwing down webs, grease, clouds etc. which keeps them at a distance longer or further divides their number.

Debuffing is about shutting down one or more enemies. There's some overlap here with Battlefield Control but debuffing really revolves around Save or Suck spells. Debuffing is the High Risk High Reward path where Buffing is the safe path. Debuffing as part of Battlefield Control is more like, instead of casting Wall of Stone and splitting the enemy in half you cast Glitterdust and divide them in half by who saves and who doesn't, its just another way of doing Battlefield Control. Debuffing as Debuffing is like hitting a guy with Blindness or something that effectively takes them out of the fight. They can save, so its riskier than buffing your own guys or hitting a whole group with a save or suck.


You usually play Fighter-types. Playing a spellcaster like this you're looking at the same puzzle as you were as a fighter, but you're looking at it from a different perspective and your previous experiences can help! You know the sort of situations you hate as a beatstick, as a spell slinger you're working at another level where you can help avoid them. Like, the party paladin is about to get outflanked! You could cast Silent Image and make it look like a Pillar of Force has sprung into existence! If the enemy rogue wants to screw around with it and spend a round poking and prodding it so he can disbelieve it, well your buddy has time to get into better position or another team mate can move in to assist. More likely the enemy is just gonna go to Plan B and your paladin doesn't get a dagger in his kidneys either way.


Playing a support spellcaster is about breaking challenges down into chunks small enough for your party to eat. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight. Don't pick a fight with seven men when all you're packing is a six gun. Don't let a party of five adventurers fight twenty orcs all at the same time. Your job is to do something with fifteen of them while the party deals with the first five.

A wizard can do anything. They can take over just about any party role. They can not, however, do everything. So your main job, is making it so your party members can do their jobs.

It is 5am, and I've been rambling for a bit.  :blah
I hope some of it was helpful.



Offline Iainuki

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Re: Building a Buffbot in Core.
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2013, 11:49:07 AM »
Buffing in core is really about long-duration spells you cast at the start of the day and a handful of in-combat buffs.  You will probably end up using buffs that don't multitarget just because, in core, there aren't enough buffs that do, and you will need to give people specific abilities not available as multitarget buffs.

The most important long-duration buff is greater magic weapon.  The only other long-duration buff that helps offense is heroismAir walk is good in the long run since it gives your party, as well as you, flight.  Waterwalk is more situational but in the same vein.  Darkvision can be important if you're dungeon crawling with races that don't get darkvision intrinsically.  Barkskin, magic vestmentdelay/neutralize poison, and heroes' feast are good defensive buffs but as always are a lower priority than offense or utility abilities.

As for in-combat buffs, haste is the best buff for weapon users in the core, without question.  Rage, good hope, prayer, and mass enlarge person are also good depending on your party and what bonus types they're already getting, though only mass enlarge person can really swing a combat.  Bardic music isn't that strong in the core, but neither are the spells, so later on inspire courage or inspire greatness can be a reasonable choice instead of one of the multitarget buff spells.  By the time you get the mass versions of bull's strength and cat's grace, they're obsolete because everyone should have items that give bonuses as large already.  Align weapon can be very important but there's no mass version in the core.

If you have any sneak attackers, battlefield control like grease and black tentacles and spells that inflict some status conditions like blindness/deafness can set them up for sneak attack.

There's not much more to buffing in core beyond picking an appropriate class, bard, cleric, or wizard, not losing caster levels, and picking the right spells.  Only archmage can really help you buff.  Loremaster doesn't help your core competency but might be better than taking more levels of whatever your base class is.  Feats-wise, Craft Wondrous Item is always good if your DM lets it put you ahead on gold, and you need Extend Spell to make your long-duration buffs last long enough.  You might want Spell Focus or Spell Penetration if you're debuffing or casting battlefield control.  Beyond that, no feats really help you, so you might as well grab things like Improved Initiative.

Offline Solo

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Re: Building a Buffbot in Core.
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2013, 11:54:25 AM »
Quote
Don't pick a fight with seven men when all you're packing is a six gun.
Please.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 11:57:43 AM by Solo »
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline jameswilliamogle

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