Soul Eater Questions

[Kasz]

So, got a few questions about the Soul Eater class.

Info -> Player making a Half Minotaur +1 LA / 5 Barb / 2 Soul Eater - that Gores to deliver negative levels. It's a build that whilst not completely optimised he likes the sound of and will be quite fun.

Now,

1. If he kills something with negative levels (negative levels being equal to ECL = dead monster) does it become a wight? in 1d4 rounds.

A character with negative levels at least equal to her current level, or drained below 1st level, is instantly slain. Depending on the creature that killed her, she may rise the next night as a monster of that kind. If not, she rises as a wight.

I mean, that text seems to imply if you're drained to death you're coming back, if not as a thing that drained you then a wight...but you're coming back regardless.

Now the Wight text says "Humanoid", but the negative level text says "character". So:

2. If he kills a non humanoid, such as a troll for example, with negative level drain then does it come back as a Troll Wight... or a Troll but with the stats of a Wight... does a wight burst out of it's chest? does it just stay dead?

3. Just for confirmation... if something had 10HD and had taken 9 negative levels, if it's killed by damage, it stays dead. correct?

4. If a soul eater does create a Wight with his drain, I guess he doesn't control it, due to his Soul Slave ability at 9th which states:

Soul Slave (Su): If a 9th-level soul eater completely drains a creature of energy, the victim becomes a wight under the command of the soul eater.

So I guess until he gets that, he creates feral wights.

5. This is a repeat of number 2, ish. But lets say a 9th level soul eater kills a troll with nothing but negative levels, does that troll become a wight? as the quote above specifies that it's when a soul eater drains a creature, not a humanoid. How does one turn a troll, or a giant squid, or an Aboleth into a wight?

6. The character will have leadership for a pocket Cleric, he intends on draining the Cleric and having the Cleric heal himself (kinda sadomasochistic relationship.) If the Cleric had the Heart of Nabassu feat and absorbed the negative level harmlessly, would the soul eater benefit from having used his soul drain ability?

(he intends to drain his follower as a daily (or nightly) ritual to keep his powers up, as they're all 24 hour based)

7. The Soul Blast states

Soul Blast (Su): When a 3rd-level soul eater uses its energy drain ability, it may project a 100-foot ray of force that deals 1d6 points of damage per soul eater level against one target.

So is that a standard action? Is that a free action after an attack successfully drains a level?

Sorry for the wall of questions.

[ksbsnowowl]

1. If he kills something with negative levels (negative levels being equal to ECL = dead monster) does it become a wight? in 1d4 rounds.

A character with negative levels at least equal to her current level, or drained below 1st level, is instantly slain. Depending on the creature that killed her, she may rise the next night as a monster of that kind. If not, she rises as a wight.

I mean, that text seems to imply if you're drained to death you're coming back, if not as a thing that drained you then a wight...but you're coming back regardless.

It doesn't rise as a wight in 1d4 rounds.  It rises as a wight the next night.  Maybe at sundown, maybe at midnight; that fluff is up to you as the DM.

"negative levels being equal to ECL = dead monster"
Granted, I don't have Soul Eater in front of me, but that's not how negative levels normally work.  Negative levels being equal to your HD = dead monster.  Yes, Level Adjustment makes you more vulnerable to death by negative levels.

Now the Wight text says "Humanoid", but the negative level text says "character". So:

2. If he kills a non humanoid, such as a troll for example, with negative level drain then does it come back as a Troll Wight... or a Troll but with the stats of a Wight... does a wight burst out of it's chest? does it just stay dead?

The rules aren't clear, but I'd use the Wight template from... Savage Species?  It is specifically designed for making wights out of non-humanoids.

3. Just for confirmation... if something had 10HD and had taken 9 negative levels, if it's killed by damage, it stays dead. correct?

Yes. Dead. No rising.

4. If a soul eater does create a Wight with his drain, I guess he doesn't control it, due to his Soul Slave ability at 9th which states:

Soul Slave (Su): If a 9th-level soul eater completely drains a creature of energy, the victim becomes a wight under the command of the soul eater.

So I guess until he gets that, he creates feral wights.

Correct.  Any wight created by random level draining is an uncontrolled wight (at least until someone rebukes/commands it).

5. This is a repeat of number 2, ish. But lets say a 9th level soul eater kills a troll with nothing but negative levels, does that troll become a wight? as the quote above specifies that it's when a soul eater drains a creature, not a humanoid. How does one turn a troll, or a giant squid, or an Aboleth into a wight?

A creature is still a character in the game.  As above, use the Wight template.


Don't know 6, sorry.

7. The Soul Blast states

Soul Blast (Su): When a 3rd-level soul eater uses its energy drain ability, it may project a 100-foot ray of force that deals 1d6 points of damage per soul eater level against one target.

So is that a standard action? Is that a free action after an attack successfully drains a level?

Supernatural Abilities (Su):  Supernatural abilities are magical and go away in an antimagic field but are not subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or to being dispelled by dispel magic. Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise.

Standard action.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

Soul Eater handbook
http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1919581

... I thought there was one around here, but my google-fu ain't finding it.  And again.

2nding Wight template on monsters, Savage Species, maybe Libris Mortis.
hmm, well SS has a short section of Template stacking / precedence and types.
Basically you can add weird template combos ... as much as old C.O. ignored this.

[Tempest]

Thirding the Wight template.

In response to:

6. The character will have leadership for a pocket Cleric, he intends on draining the Cleric and having the Cleric heal himself (kinda sadomasochistic relationship.) If the Cleric had the Heart of Nabassu feat and absorbed the negative level harmlessly, would the soul eater benefit from having used his soul drain ability?

I'd have to say yes. The Heart of the Nabassu feat states in its example:

you can gain up to two negative levels on a given day and not suffer any ill effects.

Which means that the Negative Levels are still there, you just don't get any penalties from them.

Also, if you want to get technical, many of the 'Soul' abilities only state that he needs to 'use its energy drain ability' for them to work, so they'd still trigger even if you used it on undead for example. The one ability which probably won't work this way is the Soul Blast, since it states: 'can be used once per day, and only on a day when the soul eater has drained levels'. Still, that just means that you could drain a living creature earlier in the day, and then activate the ability upon using Soul Drain on an undead/construct/whatever.

Vile Darkness is full of badly worded stuff like that, so take from it what you will. Personally I'd rule that Soul Drain actually has to deal Negative Levels for all those abilities to work, but that might just be me.

[phaedrusxy]

Soul Eater handbook
http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1919581

... I thought there was one around here, but my google-fu ain't finding it.

Wow... we should copy this over... I'm amazed it's still available on WotC, given how much chaos and reorganization there has been on those boards...

[snakeman830]

If it gets copied over, Warforged need to get added to the list of races.  Your type doesn't matter, so long as you aren't a Humanoid and have a Con score.

[Kasz]

Thank you for clearing these things up. Especially Snowowl, that makes a lot of sense and Tempest for making sense of that feat.

We had an issue in the session with the Soul Eater's character pointing out that his Energy Drain didn't have a save, as there's none listed, which caused the DM to promptly state "no save negative levels is OP, it has a standard save."

[ksbsnowowl]

Typically negative level effects only have a save on the back end, to remove it 24 hours after it was inflicted.

[Tempest]

We had an issue in the session with the Soul Eater's character pointing out that his Energy Drain didn't have a save, as there's none listed, which caused the DM to promptly state "no save negative levels is OP, it has a standard save."

If its a question of nerfing the Soul Drain there's a much easier, and rule friendlier, way to do it. It is a Supernatural ability, and the SRD states the following:

Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise.

Since the Soul Drain ability doesn't state otherwise, it should be a Standard action by RAW. I'm sure that's not how it was intended, but I did mention that the Book of Vile Darkness is often poorly worded. Another way to do it is to limit the Soul Drain to once per round, like a Vampire's similar ability.

[Kasz]

DM and player are happy with the compromise of "Every attack, but with a save".

I'll put the alternatives forward but...yeah... god damnit Soul Eater is poorly written.

[Unbeliever]

DM and player are happy with the compromise of "Every attack, but with a save".

I'll put the alternatives forward but...yeah... god damnit Soul Eater is poorly written.

Typically negative level effects only have a save on the back end, to remove it 24 hours after it was inflicted.

This.  It's not necessarily poorly-written on this point.  DCs aren't listed for energy drain in the vast majority of monsters that have it, iirc, b/c there isn't one. 

That being said, if the house rule works then great all around.  One of my friends hates the calculations that negative levels cause when he's DMing, so I avoid the class to make his life easier.  Things that work, work (he added tautologically).