Author Topic: Wildshaping Ranger Optimization  (Read 9838 times)

Offline DarkObserver

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Wildshaping Ranger Optimization
« on: February 15, 2014, 02:28:37 PM »
Hi everyone,
I'm currently involved in a campaign where i would like to play an optimized wildshaping ranger/MoMF/Nature's Warrior/Warshaper (possibly). We are using a 28 point-buy and starting off at level 3 or 4. I have an idea of how i want to go but im not sure of the best way to start and how to progress in levels, (like what feats to take at what levels) to stay optimized so i've come to these boards for help. Any Suggestions?
P.S. i am playing a killoren, and everything is available. Campaign Setting specific things (such as forgotten realms and ebberon) must be approved by DM first.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Wildshaping Ranger Optimization
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2014, 03:25:30 PM »
Push for Planar Shepherd over MoMF, for mid game power, find out what planes are available too
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Offline Iainuki

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Re: Wildshaping Ranger Optimization
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2014, 06:14:31 PM »
I played a character similar to this at one point, though mine was more monk-themed, so I can give you some ideas of what did and didn't work.  I'm going to assume you're using post-errata wild shape.

For feats, you really have two choices: you can pick good feats that don't have any particular theme, or you can try to build for a specific melee combat style like grappling, charging, tripping, or so on.  Good general feats that you might want to look at are Improved Initiative, Multiattack, Improved Multiattack (if you plan to use forms with significant numbers of secondary natural attacks), Flyby Attack, Lion's Pounce (CD) or Bestial Charge (CC) to pounce when the form you're using doesn't have it, Swift Wild Shape (CC), or Darkstalker (LoM) if you want to use stealth.  Avoid Power Attack.  Going into ToB maneuvers with Martial Study and Stance or MoI with various feats can be a useful thing to do.  For combat styles, it really depends on the combat style.  If that's the direction you want to go, I'd need to know which one you want to focus on.

Other than feats, most of the work for your character will go into finding good forms to use at each level.  How much you want to dump Str and Dex depends on how much you care about having a miserable early-game experience.  At 3rd or 4th level, you'll still be dependent on your intrinsic physical stats.  By 9th level or so, you won't care.  The good news is that in the long run, you won't have much MAD because the only stat that really matters is Con.  You can probably afford a decent Int for skill points and decent Int, Wis, or Cha for whatever skills you want.  For skills, you're going to want to pick two or three out-of-combat competencies you want and run with them.  This kind of build can actually do a wide variety of different things well, especially with alternative class features and if you do enough dumpster-diving through the monster books.  It's best at stealth and counter-stealth (Spot, Listen, and eventually stuff like scent and blindsense), but if you want to you can be surprisingly good at things like socializing with NPCs and searching for traps.

Equipment is entirely dependent on whether you have access to wilding clasps (MIC) or not.  If not, buy some wild or beasthide (MIC, CAd) armor and a bunch of stuff for out-of-combat utility since your stuff's going to be melded when you're fighting unless your DM's pretty liberal about equipment rules.  If so, you'll want all the usual items, but the most important thing is the best possible amulet of mighty fists or analogous item.  The golden road to damage with natural attacks is to get as many as possible and then get as many damage bonuses that apply to every attack, since your secondary attacks only get 1/2 Str to damage.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Wildshaping Ranger Optimization
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2014, 08:19:06 PM »
If your DM rules that the Bloodclaw Master from ToB lets you get full strength bonus to secondary natural attacks then that might be an option, with a single level dip into swordsage or warblade to get the needed Tiger Claw maneuvers.

If you're sticking to the original line, how far into MoMF do you think you'd want to go?  The 7th level can be quite useful depending on what creature you wild shape into.  For example, you could wild shape into a fire giant to gain the immunity to fire.

Offline Rebel7284

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Re: Wildshaping Ranger Optimization
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2014, 10:57:31 PM »
Mystic Ranger+Sword of the Arcane Order gives you access to a few wizard spells.  Can be quite useful.

Offline StreamOfTheSky

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Re: Wildshaping Ranger Optimization
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2014, 03:53:34 AM »
If you take Urban Companion from the cityscape web enhancement, you can lose your hopelessly weak (from the multiclassing) animal companion for a familiar.  Which in turn gives you Alertness, so you get both of MoMF's required feats for free.

Look into Warshaper, at least for a small dip once you have the all important 7 levels of MoMF down.

Offline Ithamar

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Re: Wildshaping Ranger Optimization
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2014, 11:34:29 AM »
If you weren't playing a killoren, I'd suggest 2 levels of Deepwarden.  But perhaps Fist of the Forest instead?  Gotta love CON to AC.

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Wildshaping Ranger Optimization
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2014, 12:37:51 PM »
Fist of the Forest is a great pairing.  I also liked Aberration Wild Shape or Dragon Wild Shape, but that's more of a taste thing.  And, MoMF obsoletes them anyway. 

If you want to be cruel in late game, and can swing the prereqs, Soul Eater (BOVD) can be horrific.

Finally, depending on the forms, you could go the Swift Hunter route, possibly with a dip into Barbarian and/or Cleric for Travel Devotion.  I had a build that used all of those for a dangerous hit and run type skirmisher.  But, with MoMF you may just want to hang in there for combat. 

As to leveling advice, obviously Ranger 5 is your first start, as you'll want to get the Wild Shape part of your concept out there.  Then, I'd look at what forms you want at a given level (there are some great threads to this effect).  That will tell you where you need to go with MoMF.  After you've got enough to get your War Troll or whatever.  Also, the spell Enhance Wild Shape is your friend until you get the ability from MoMF. 

So, forms would be where I'd start.  Then, you can sprinkle in Nature's Warrior, Warshaper, and Fist of the Forest to taste at the appropriate points. 

Offline BearsAreBrown

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Re: Wildshaping Ranger Optimization
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2014, 02:08:11 PM »
Be careful with Fist of the Forest's 'must be wild' stipulation. If your DM runs it as written its pretty damning.

Offline Ithamar

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Re: Wildshaping Ranger Optimization
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2014, 02:16:40 PM »
Yeah, having to stick to strict wild living can be a pain, depending on the campaign.  One of the reasons why I typically go Deepwarden if available.

Offline JohnnyMayHymn

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Re: Wildshaping Ranger Optimization
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2014, 01:11:01 AM »
This is really cheesy and questionable, but Divine Minion template can boost your wildshape HD, pair that with a familiar for early MoMF entry (this might throw red flags though as this was one of the early versions of pun pun)

*Afb but is it possible to go wildshape mystic ranger into planar shepherd?  this could be very nice

If you're worried about losing ws forms by taking planar shepherd, dont worry b/c you can add a template to forms from your chosen plane in order for them to work with PS's 2nd level ability, and you arent going to beat the outsider forms at PS9. 

Edit: also abberant and cryohydra-wildshape are still there if you think PS wildshape isnt cutting the mustard, ... for some reason
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 01:13:52 AM by JohnnyMayHymn »
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Offline OblivionSmurf83

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Re: Wildshaping Ranger Optimization
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2014, 06:56:36 AM »
Push for Planar Shepherd over MoMF, for mid game power, find out what planes are available too

I love Planar Shepherd, but a (non-Mystic) Ranger can't qualify for it until 10th level

Offline Empirate

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Re: Wildshaping Ranger Optimization
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2014, 11:32:53 AM »
Another way to grab Alertness for MoMF is via Celestial bloodline, if those are in play. Doesn't set you behind for long, and bloodlines also increase your level-based benefits from all classes.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Wildshaping Ranger Optimization
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2014, 01:05:51 PM »
Push for Planar Shepherd over MoMF, for mid game power, find out what planes are available too

I love Planar Shepherd, but a (non-Mystic) Ranger can't qualify for it until 10th level

how so?
   Prerequisites:
Feats: Greensinger Initiate or Nightbringers Initiate
Skills: Knowledge (nature) 8 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 8 ranks
Special: Wild shape

that means 5 levels of WS ranger allows you to start at 6th level
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Offline Ithamar

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Re: Wildshaping Ranger Optimization
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2014, 02:30:18 PM »
You can't get those feats without the ability to spontaneously cast a Summon Nature's Ally spell.  You can't cast SNA until level 4, so the soonest you can take the feat "Spontaneous Summoner" is level 6.  Thus the soonest you can take either of those Initiate feats is level 9.  So Planar Shepherd starts at 10.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Wildshaping Ranger Optimization
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2014, 02:40:44 PM »
... right duh

though the Adaptation drops the feat requirement
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Wildshaping Ranger Optimization
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2014, 05:45:10 PM »
What does the rest of your party look like?
How much heavens-shaking powahh do you want?


Aberrant Wild Shape can open up Beholder Mage.
With Planar Sheperd and Souleater also mentioned,
you can dial things down from there, to whatever
would be more reasonable for your home game.
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Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Wildshaping Ranger Optimization
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2014, 05:47:55 PM »
yeah... very good point. don't overshadow your party mates
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Offline OblivionSmurf83

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Re: Wildshaping Ranger Optimization
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2014, 08:00:19 AM »
Aberrant Wild Shape can open up Beholder Mage.

I'm not sure this works; Wild Shape doesn't change your type, so you can't really be considered a Beholder if you wild shape into one.

Also, is there a source for being able to use spells/supernatural abilities to quality for prestige classes?