Author Topic: [3.5] gestalt build (rogue//wizard)  (Read 5270 times)

Offline Mental-State

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[3.5] gestalt build (rogue//wizard)
« on: March 15, 2014, 12:41:48 PM »
basicly I not a min/maxer by nature but I am playing d&d with a few who have had much more expernice than me. I have played a little bit of d&d but this is going to be my 1st real game.
I care more about the flavour of my charater but I still need to be at least useful to be in the party. Also this is a evil game and there has been 2 player pvp deaths by the hands of one charater (one being my charater).

 I know you guys can make every exp point count when it comes to build a character. I am playing a game kinda based off gestalt but more. Basically you can play
single class for 100% exp
Two for 2/3 exp
Three for 1/2 exp
 
most are 2 or 3 classes

I think my gm is a bit mental (he think beguiler is broken) so that’s why I’m going rogue//wizard. But the system he has in place is you get all the skill points of both classes (more classes means more maxed out skills). I picked up fighter as I’m going to be splitting my feats with wizard and rogue. You can take a prestige class with any of your classes (dagger spell mage). You can also drop a class (fighter when I get what I need) so for me if I did drop fighter after that I would be getting 2/3 exp.
I got fighter to get into dagger spell mage and I will drop it so the exp hit will not be so bad.

the party is
(click to show/hide)

one thing to note is my GM thinks that rouges can only do one sneak attack a turn on a full attack (which makes kinda sense for jumping out of hide or being invisible) but flanking or if they are paralysed I'm going to convince him with logic (he likes logic, but also like balance and he think beguiler is broken)

This is going to be role play heavy game, most of the games we play we dont do much combat (not because we doing like it but why would a bunch of demons fresh out of hell try and take on a warehouse of other demons when you have the lord of hell right in front of you and they can do it quicker). so stuff like that.


ok

My character likes to stay out of the lime light, doesn’t like to be the leader but still wants power. So to make or take an identity to take control of power bases without building them up. He is a wizard but that is his trump card. You can't dispel a hide check. I was thinking of going to add the 1st level of exemplar to buff/disguise. I’m leaning to buff. I going to social my enemy’s so I need to be good at lying. Also when you gank a PC you need to convince the other PC's it was not you. also thinking of spymaster and not im not so sure.

Right as my GM said the reason my with version of the game works is because if you are a fighter wizard you can only do one attack a round. So either be the fighter and hit with your sword or be a wizard and zap people. Yeah... This is a good way to combo my rouge and wizard. I’m not looking for damage in this build but a type of character, a style of play but I’m looking to get the most out of it if possible. I have going shadow weave and going to do focus on shadow spells. Looking for options

My character learned magic for one reason. Because it is not something everyone can do or learn. Anyone can sneak or hide (maybe not well but they can) before becoming a wizard he saw it as how magic is for sorcerers. A rare gift. Not something that can be learned by any that has the mind to understand how the world really works. He has learned to enjoy magic but he is not looking to do major damage. That’s too easy to be expected. The threat of it works just as good.

I want to make the enemy think that when they try to hit me and fail they are hitting an illusion. Waste turns taking to them through an illusion as they think it me.
I want to get a few good damage touch spells. One of each element really. Shadow evocation/conjratation should fill any gaps and for more options.

Im going for illusions really and pulling out magic when I need to but it is important the other PC dont know what I can do.

These book are legal for the game. others are up to the gm to say otherwise

Complete series
Spell Compendium
Forgotten realms books


to mutilclass for example you would need to be a rogue for being a halfling for example

rogue//wizard//bard
but you will be stuck with the rogue or a prestige class for the rogue.
you can do fighter/rogue//wizard but would would have to be a elf, human, half-elf. you could drop the wizard if you wanted and go pure fighter/rogue (which is one line of classes) as an elf. the way he is running it is if you want to dual class thats when you need a favoured class

thewse are my stats

str 13
dex 17
con 15
int 17
chr 15
wiz 13

these where rolled

 at the moment I am rogue//wizard//fighter level 3


this is what i am thinking of doing.

rogue5/dagger spell mage10/????//wizard5/shadowcraft mage5/????
maybe shadowcrafter after?
I know you are meant to be a gnome but the thing is im part of the church of Shaar and you really think there wouldn't be anyone with that class in the reglion. so I think I can get him to agree to this class. Im going to be taking the shadow template at some point which is mostly for flavour. but it up to the gm.

I need TWF for dagger spell mage but i dont think I need to go more down that tree.

Offline Sjappo

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Re: [3.5] gestalt build (rogue//wizard)
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2014, 06:24:44 AM »
Not sure if I can give you any tips but I did some calculations based on your XP rules.

100% = 12k XP
1 class: lvl 5 (mid lvl)
2 class: lvl 4 (mid lvl)
3 class: lvl 4 (just)

100% = 50k XP
1 class: lvl 10 (mid lvl)
2 class: lvl 8 (mid lvl)
3 class: lvl 7 (mid lvl)

100% = 110k XP
1 class: lvl 15 (mid lvl)
2 class: lvl 12 (mid lvl)
3 class: lvl 11 (just)

One of the commandments of optimising is "Thou shalt not lose casterlevels" as higher level spells trump anything else. So if this campaigns is going into the teens you should basically try not to Gestalt.  Much. It would be acceptable to lose a few thousend XP since this won't impact you much at higher levels.

One thing you could do is go Mystic Theurge or some other dualcasting class. You can go (Cloistered) Cleric 3//Wizard 3 for 4500 XP (or Cleric 3/Wizzard 3//Rogue 3 for 6000XP if you realy realy want rogue) take some Devotion Feats, DMM and go pure Mystic Theurge from there. Maybe grab archivist in stead of cleric and factotum in stead of rogue for some off the wall combos.
"You know you count as artillery when it would be easier to use divination magic to locate your target than a spot check"

Offline Mental-State

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Re: [3.5] gestalt build (rogue//wizard)
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2014, 02:13:57 PM »
Well the point was to try out gestalt so everyone has at least 2 classes. I took warrior for just 3 levels just for some of feats hp and a bit of fort
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 03:53:53 AM by Mental-State »

Offline Sjappo

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Re: [3.5] gestalt build (rogue//wizard)
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2014, 05:10:31 PM »
Well the point was to try out gestalt so everyone has at least 2 classes. I took warrior for just 3 levels just for some of feats hp and a bit of fort
I think I'm missing something here. Why warrior and not fighter? I'm not sure I get the multiclass rules either. If you want to multiclass you have to have at least the favored class in it? Does that also have to be your main class, meaning the class you go singleclass into? What do you get from the gestald classes? Skillpoint, bonus feats. What else? Do BAB stack? Saves? HP?
I also noticed that your buildstub has spellcasting progressing classes on both sides of the gestald. Why? Is that mandatory? Or do you want the features of both prestige classes

Anyway, my point is still valid. If you want to be an as good as possible caster you have to lose as little casterlevels as possible. So quit the gestald as soon as possible/reasonable. I think that point depends on how long the game will be running and how fast you progress in levels. If you go to level 20 missing 25k XP isn't a big deal, opening up dual class till lvl 12 or so, triple class till level 10. If lvl 10 is the endpoint you need to stop earlier to keep your casterlevel up.

I also noticed that your buildstub has spellcasting progressing classes on both sides of the gestald. Why? Is that mandatory? Or do you want the features of both prestige classes? In that case I'd go rogue4/sorcerer1/Daggerspell mage on one side and let that progress the sorcerer (with practiced spellcaster). That way you get a little sorcerer casting on the side, next to full wizard casting form the wizard side. Use the sorc side to fuel arcane strike or something.

Normally dual progression classes (like daggerspell mage for rogue/arcane caster) are not allowed in Gestald. Check with your DM.

Shadowcraft mage needs a 4th level spell btw. So no entry before lvl 8.

I'm in no way gifted enough to hash out a whole build for you but you might consider
- Whispergnome (RoS) fav class rogue, small, swift amd sneaky
- 2 lvls of ranger for  a favoured enemy (Magic users (kinda) with an ACF) and skills, bab, fort and two weapon fighting
- 2 lvls monk for wis to AC and a nice save boost

So, have fun with this brainfart ;) Hope anything makes sense.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 05:12:56 PM by Sjappo »
"You know you count as artillery when it would be easier to use divination magic to locate your target than a spot check"

Offline Mental-State

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Re: [3.5] gestalt build (rogue//wizard)
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2014, 06:26:38 AM »
I think I'm missing something here. Why warrior and not fighter?

sorry I meant fighter, to much playing mmo's

I'm not sure I get the multiclass rules either. If you want to multiclass you have to have at least the favored class in it?

What i mean is for the qestalt bit. so an elf can be a wizard//fighter wizard//bard//monk

Does that also have to be your main class, meaning the class you go singleclass into? What do you get from the gestald classes? Skillpoint, bonus feats. What else? Do BAB stack? Saves? HP?
you get both skill points and all class features but if you get 2 classes that have the same feature for example a sneak attack fighter (from UA) and a rogue you will still have 10d6 sneak attack damage by 20. Basicly you can not try to stack features which are level based. if you have evasion and you get another class that gives it too you do not get anything for it unless the class says so.

You get the best of the HP and the saves, so you going to have atleast two good saves and maybe 3. same with the BAB. because I am droping fighter (not warrior lol) I will now follow the rouge progession (so I will have a BAB of +16)

 
I also noticed that your buildstub has spellcasting progressing classes on both sides of the gestald. Why? Is that mandatory? Or do you want the features of both prestige classes
yeah the class features, i didn't think of one level of sorcerer. good point.

Anyway, my point is still valid. If you want to be an as good as possible caster you have to lose as little casterlevels as possible. So quit the gestald as soon as possible/reasonable. I think that point depends on how long the game will be running and how fast you progress in levels. If you go to level 20 missing 25k XP isn't a big deal, opening up dual class till lvl 12 or so, triple class till level 10. If lvl 10 is the endpoint you need to stop earlier to keep your casterlevel up.
The thing is leveling faster than everyone else will just get to a point where the the chalenge rating has been pulled up and the other charaters (espeically the other casters) will start to have problems and it will all fall on me. We have already gone from dealing with a red dragon wyrmling to now 2 juvenile dragons. This was because of the gear the melee charater have bought while casters it is more about spells and caster levels. Doing 40 damage without a crit is pretty good.
back on point out leveling eveyone else will end up with either me carrying the fights or a TPW

I also noticed that your buildstub has spellcasting progressing classes on both sides of the gestald. Why? Is that mandatory? Or do you want the features of both prestige classes? In that case I'd go rogue4/sorcerer1/Daggerspell mage on one side and let that progress the sorcerer (with practiced spellcaster). That way you get a little sorcerer casting on the side, next to full wizard casting form the wizard side. Use the sorc side to fuel arcane strike or something.

Normally dual progression classes (like daggerspell mage for rogue/arcane caster) are not allowed in Gestald. Check with your DM.

Shadowcraft mage needs a 4th level spell btw. So no entry before lvl 8.

I'm in no way gifted enough to hash out a whole build for you but you might consider
- Whispergnome (RoS) fav class rogue, small, swift amd sneaky
- 2 lvls of ranger for  a favoured enemy (Magic users (kinda) with an ACF) and skills, bab, fort and two weapon fighting
- 2 lvls monk for wis to AC and a nice save boost

So, have fun with this brainfart ;) Hope anything makes sense.

dagger spell mage is fine for my to take as it was my DM is the one who reconmended it.

I am thinking of a dip in shadow adept for the 3 feats, it will give me bonus to spell pen, make it harder to be dispelled and detected

taking the feat earth magic from the same book as shadowcarft mage