Splash weapons are not appreciated

[Walrusman999]

Hey guys I am new to the forum but I really needed some more brains to ponder this character build with me.

The concept will be Splash weapons (Acid, Alchemist Fire, etc.) and Sneak Attack. This was brought up in a Rogue Handbook but doesn't go into much detail about how you should go about doing this.

So a little bit about the campaign, it will be set in the Magic the Gathering city of Ravnica. We will be starting at level 4 and any source book goes so long as it is published by Wizards or Wizards legal. Point buy is 4d6 drop the lowest. I already have my stats rolled, they are: 18, 17, 16, 15, 12, 10.

What I am really looking for is some help with feats. The over all goal, from my research, will be to get as many attacks as possible with Splash weapons and use them to get typed Sneak Attack damage to overcome DR and resistances. The character will be a skill monkey variety which is why I have started with Able learner. I looked into one level dips in fighter (bonus feats) and master thrower (quick draw and throwing abilities) and they seem to be worth the loss of sneak attack. I was looking into a one level dip into assassin to counter balance the loss of sneak attack, without it I lose an extra d6 of my damage. If possible I wanted to remain with high skills so I can keep my party roles as social face, de-trapper, and stereotypical thief.

I had originally planned to be a Dragonwrought Kobold for the +2 dex, small size for AC, and +3 to all mental attributes but I reasoned that taking Able Learner while maintaining the same number of skill points per level, as a human, worked better.

My current build so far (unless you guys can come up with something better)
Race Human Stats are Str 10, Dex 17, Con 16, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 15
1:     Rogue 1    - Able Learner (Human bonus), Grenadier, Point-blank Shot (Flaw: Noncombatant), Precise Shot (Flaw: Poor Reflexes)

2:     Fighter 1   - Weapon Focus (Splash) [Fighter Bonus]

3:     Rogue 2    - Far Shot

4:     Rogue 3    - Dex 18, Penetrating strike

I am having some issues with defining Splash Weapons as just ranged, or do they also count as melee weapons for purposes of two-weapon fighting?

I really appreciate anything you guys can come up with as right now I am stumped past the next three levels of rogue before I take a level or more in Master thrower at 8.

[Raineh Daze]

All I can wonder is why a rogue with those stats?

[kitep]

You can do 2 weapon fighting with ranged weapons, it just means you're throwing a flask with each hand.  The penalties for 2-weapon fighting are still the same.

[Keldar]

You may want to consider a level in a caster class, or the Magical Training feat (Player's Guide to Faerun, pg 41) so you can use Craft (Alchemy) to cut costs.  Wizard would be good with high Int, but Assassin/Avenger would probably be better overall.  (Just write the darn Special prerequisite into your background.  )

And yes, Two Weapon fighting works fine with ranged weapons that you can use in one hand, like grenades.

If you do go Avenger, Nymph's Kiss for an extra skill point could probably be better than Able Learner since you'll have all the relevant Rogue class skills.

[zook1shoe]

There's that splash weapon crossbow that could increase your sneak attack range a bit.

[Snowbluff]

All I can wonder is why a rogue with those stats?

I don't think they are in that order as stats, but a series of numbers in descending order.

[Raineh Daze]

All I can wonder is why a rogue with those stats?

I don't think they are in that order as stats, but a series of numbers in descending order.

I mean that it just seems like a waste to play a rogue throwing bombs with a statline that good.

[linklord231]

All I can wonder is why a rogue with those stats?

If ever you wanted to play a monk or paladin, now would be the time

As it stands, I'd drop Able Learner. You'd only be using it for one level anyway, unless you plan to leave Rogue soon. On the other hand, you might consider swapping your levels around and doing Feat Rogue 1/ Sneak Attack Fighter 3. You lose out on some skill points, but gain better hit points and BAB.

[Arz]

Need to be a halfling and add Shaped Splash + TWF. Hits are easy since its all touch AC.

Personally am a big fan of spellthief for this style.

[Walrusman999]

All I can wonder is why a rogue with those stats?

I picked rogue before rolling my stats. I really like rogues for their RP aspect with all the skill options. That's why a rogue.

You may want to consider a level in a caster class, or the Magical Training feat (Player's Guide to Faerun, pg 41) so you can use Craft (Alchemy) to cut costs.  Wizard would be good with high Int, but Assassin/Avenger would probably be better overall.  (Just write the darn Special prerequisite into your background.  )

And yes, Two Weapon fighting works fine with ranged weapons that you can use in one hand, like grenades.

If you do go Avenger, Nymph's Kiss for an extra skill point could probably be better than Able Learner since you'll have all the relevant Rogue class skills.

I was definitely looking into taking a level of Assassin/Avenger. I never thought about Nymphs Kiss but its definitely an option when I take another PRC.

All I can wonder is why a rogue with those stats?

If ever you wanted to play a monk or paladin, now would be the time

As it stands, I'd drop Able Learner. You'd only be using it for one level anyway, unless you plan to leave Rogue soon. On the other hand, you might consider swapping your levels around and doing Feat Rogue 1/ Sneak Attack Fighter 3. You lose out on some skill points, but gain better hit points and BAB.

Paladins, and monks are not my cup of tea. I would deviate from lawful really fast. And all the attacks will be ranged touch so I didn't feel it would be a good idea to dip more into fighter then the one level for the added feat. I was planning a one level dip into Master Thrower but I was wondering which throwing ability would be best.

Need to be a halfling and add Shaped Splash + TWF. Hits are easy since its all touch AC.

Personally am a big fan of spellthief for this style.

I looked into Shaped splash but I wanted to be able to take able learner so I can still move my skill points around until certain skills are high enough to not bother with anymore (Craft (Alchemy), Tumble, Disable Device, Open Locketc.). I did consider dipping into spell thief for a level for extra sneak attack damage, or taking levels in swashbuckler but I don't think that's a good idea anymore.

So you've done something like this before? How did it go? And why Spellthief instead of rogue?

There's that splash weapon crossbow that could increase your sneak attack range a bit.

What book did you find this in? I don't remember ever finding something like this, but if you could direct me I wouldn't need to take farshot and could start right into TWF.

As it stands I'm thinking of going into Assassin fully as soon as I can. Would it be better to maybe take something else? I read someone said taking spell casting class would be a good option. The only class I was thinking was Cloistered Cleric taking travel domain so I can use turning attempts to get a swift movement to close distance. I haven't looked into that much yet though.

Might strait rogue be the best option for this? If I dropped back to a kobold it would allow me to be small for those bonus' and take the Wyrm of War option gaining me 4 extra feats since BAB isn't totally necessary for touch options. Even less necessary if I deny Dex on top of using touch attacks, that reduces someone to almost the base 10 for AC, and I have a +10 when within 30ft at my current level. If I went that option with full rogue I'd only lose one feat which would mean I'd drop Able Learner. If I stay with human and take Quick Draw instead of able learner, and swap far shot for Rapid Shot or TWF, I don't need to dip into Master Thrower then unless some of the throwing options are really good.

Thanks for all the feedback guys, you've definitely helped me look at my character from some other angles.

[zook1shoe]

Gnome Calculus in Arms and Equipment

[linklord231]

Paladins, and monks are not my cup of tea. I would deviate from lawful really fast. And all the attacks will be ranged touch so I didn't feel it would be a good idea to dip more into fighter then the one level for the added feat. I was planning a one level dip into Master Thrower but I was wondering which throwing ability would be best.

You misunderstand.  Feat Rogue trades the Rogue's Sneak Attack for Fighter's Bonus Feats, and Sneak Attack Fighter trades bonus feats for Sneak Attack.  Your total feats and sneak attack dice would be the same as they are now, but you'd have more hit points and BAB, but slightly lower skill points ( 4 per level fewer, assuming you also took the Thug Fighter variant, which works very nicely with Sneak Attack Fighter). 

Technically, flasks such as Alchemists Fire are splash weapons, not thrown weapons, which means they aren't eligible for use with Master Thrower.  Talk to your DM about it.  That being said, Palm Throw is by far the best. 

[Endarire]

What about going Factotum from Dungeonscape?  THere's a Roguey aspect to it, and, well, Handbook.

[ksbsnowowl]

Swashbuckler + Daring Outlaw seems like a decent idea here.