Sanctum Spell and Spontaneous Casters (Like Sorcerers!)

[Endarire]

Greetings, all!

Let's assume I'm a Human Sorcerer1 with Extend Spell and Sanctum Spell.  Since cast spells and apply metamagic spontaneously, does this mean I can cast level 1 spells using level 0 spell slots?  If so, combine this with the Pathfinder cantrip system (infinite level 0 spells), and boom!  Woo!

(This combination only works if 3.5 and Pathfinder material are allowed.)

[Azrael]

I guess...but if your DM allows 3.5 material in pathfinder (which is already not allowed) then I'm sure he will reserve the ability to be picky about what he does and doesn't allow. Maybe if you were playing 3.5 you could plead your case, dropping in terms like "official" and "RAW," but in this situation you have no such clout; so I don't see why this would ever be allowed.

[kitep]

Even assuming it works, it's probably not that overpowered.  Sanctum spells have to be cast in your sanctum.  At low levels, only a few spells will last long enough to get to the adventure.  At higher levels, first level spells don't make a big difference.

But it's still an interesting thing to consider, especially for all those kobold sorcerors out there 

[kitep]

Unless of course, your "sanctum" is the security blanket I carry around 

[TuggyNE]

Greetings, all!

Let's assume I'm a Human Sorcerer1 with Extend Spell and Sanctum Spell.  Since cast spells and apply metamagic spontaneously, does this mean I can cast level 1 spells using level 0 spell slots?  If so, combine this with the Pathfinder cantrip system (infinite level 0 spells), and boom!  Woo!

(This combination only works if 3.5 and Pathfinder material are allowed.)

As I understand it, neither the slot you cast it out of nor the spell levels you have access to change at all; the spell level changes only for DCs, globe of invulnerability interactions, and similar. So within your sanctum you could cast cantrips that were first-level spells for most purposes, but they would be selected from among your known cantrips, not firsts (e.g. acid splash as a first-level spell from a zeroth-level slot). Similarly, out of your sanctum you could cast first-level spells that were cantrips for most purposes, but they would still have the effects of various first-level spells (e.g. magic missile as a zeroth-level spell from a first-level slot).

The main abuse of Sanctum Spell I know of is for interactions with (greater) arcane fusion, but that works on somewhat different principles.

[SorO_Lost]

does this mean I can cast level 1 spells using level 0 spell slots?

Sanctum Spell does not alter the Spell Slot used, so if you meant can you cast Sleep using a 0th level Slot, that's a no.

[Endarire]

Considering the full text of Sanctum Spell, and the Pathfinder wording on level 0 spells (cantrips), it seems I can use Sanctum spell to treat my level 1 spells as level 0 spells (cantrips) for at-will use.

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"A sanctum spell has an effective spell level one level higher than normal if cast in your sanctum (see Special, below)--but if not cast in the sanctum, it has an effective spell level one level lower than normal. All effects dependent on spell level (such as save DCs or the ability to penetrate a minor globe of invulnerability) are calculated according to the adjusted level. A sanctum spell uses a spell slot of the spell's normal level, modified by any other metamagic feats."

Note how, just like the 3.5 text for Heigthen Spell (and Pathfinder's version of Heighten Spell), Sanctum Spell's spell level applies to "all effects dependent on spell level."

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"Sorcerers learn a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, as noted on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known under “Spells Known.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots and may be used again."

Before shouting, "The at-will ability only applies to spells known according to that table!" consider the feat Extra Cantrips or Orisons from Ultimate Magic, which, each time is taken, grants the owner two additional level 0 spells (cantrips or orisons) beyond the limits listed on that chart.  Additionally, the cantrips or orisons known need not be from the same class, nor from a class in which you have levels.  Additionally, the feat Expanded Arcana, each time you take it, allows learning an additional spell (or two) from  your class list.  Thus, in both cases, there is precedent in Pathfinder alone for a spontaneous caster expanding his spells known beyond the chart, and in the first case, casting level 0 spells (at will) from outside his class's spell list.

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Thus, by RAW, a level 1 spell (like sleep) affected by Sanctum Spell when cast outside the caster's designated sanctum, is considered, for all purposes pertaining to level, a level 0 spell (also known as a cantrip), and is therefore able to be used at will.

[SorO_Lost]

A sanctum spell uses a spell slot of the spell's normal level.

[Endarire]

Yes, SorO, but a spell level is not defined strictly by which spell slot level it uses.  An extended acid arrow normally uses a level 3 slot but is considered a level 2 spell.  Rare metamagic feats like Heighten and Sanctum Spell actually change the spell's level and may also change the spell slot level.

[Snowbluff]

The logic for this is:

1) I use a first level slot to cast a Sanctum Magic Missile out side of my Sanctum.

2) Since it is outside of my sanctum, it's counted as 0th.

3) Since it was a 0th level spell, it does not consume a spell slot.

Not that I necessarily agree. RAW, you could already do this with Magical Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter, IIRC.

[SorO_Lost]

Rare metamagic feats like Heighten and Sanctum Spell actually change the spell's level and may also change the spell slot level.

You're trying to create ambiguity on the word "normal" when there is none. Sanctum Spell does not change the level Spell Slot used. Period. End of story. Try something else.

I suggest StP Erudite and Trigger Power.