Pimp my Gish

[SneeR]

Hey, everyone! I'm finally back to playing D&D after years and a half-dozen nonstarters, and this time I actually get to be the player!

I'd like to be a gish with as max BAB/spell levels as I can get. However, I also want to eek as much out of my classes as possible since multiclass penalties are in full swing (though this merely slows the pace. It's a solo campaign).

For flavor, I'd like to be a mighty caster who can slay opponents the good old caster way, but who can slam an opponent down in a few mighty blows with a bigass weapon when they step too close, but I don't want to be a one-trick pony in service of that second part if I can help it.
The sooner it comes online, the better.

Because of absurdly generous rolling procedures and colossal luck, my stats are
14, 16, 16, 17, 18, 18

My thoughts so far are: wizard 1/ duskblade 2/ wizard 2/ spellsword 1/ abjurant champion 5/ Eldritch Knight (or something) 9
That build by itself is so cookie-cutter, though, that I'm pressed to add more. I've considered dipping cloistered cleric at lvl 1 as an Illumian to get that sweet turn-based Persist for arcane, all knowledge skills as skills forever thanks to the knowledge Domain, and all those skill points in all those Knowledge skills for eventual Knowledge Devotion silliness.

But I'd also like to get lvl 9 wizard spells, Duskblade 3 for Arcane channeling, and the max # attacks from BAB by lvl 20.

Obviously, something's gotta give. I'm just not sure which direction to go! If I give up on Naenhoon:Persist or Knowledge Devotion, I don't even know what skills and feats I'd take!

Please help?

[KellKheraptis]

Two things:

1) Are you dead-set on arcane?  Because I have a psi-gish that will knock your socks off.

2) If sticking to arcane, and obviously being buff-centric for melee, have you looked into the divine power gish?  All the same pwnage as a caster, one feat used to snag Divine Power.

[SneeR]

The only thing I really had in mind was that my stats can support some distressing MAD, and that made me think gish. A psionic gish could be cool, but you'd have to lay it all out for me--I've never had them in a game before!

[phaedrusxy]

Two feats can give you something comparable (better than?) a Duskblade's ability tacked onto any caster (cleric = Harm as part of a full attack, anyone? ). Get some Quintessence to keep your weapon(s) in, so you don't have to bother trying to time the casting right before combat.

Edit: Wait... so Easy Metamagic can't reduce it to +0? Crap... why did I never notice/hear about that limitation before?

(And now I have to use this combo myself...)

[Jackinthegreen]

That's what Arcane Thesis is for, if you're using a specific spell with metamagic a lot and you're an arcane caster.

And one of the most productive GitP threads concerning it: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?254981-Arcane-Thesis-errata

[SneeR]

I gave up on getting Arcane Channeling from Duskblade levels until Epic.
Smiting Spell fills the flavor perfectly, but Arcane Thesis probably isnt the answer unless I use the same spell with it every time.

[KellKheraptis]

I gave up on getting Arcane Channeling from Duskblade levels until Epic.
Smiting Spell fills the flavor perfectly, but Arcane Thesis probably isnt the answer unless I use the same spell with it every time.

Arcane Thesis (Silent Image), Smiting Spell, Incantatrix 3-4, Shadowcraft Mage 3-4.  Pick up Arcane Devotion (Luck Domain), and enjoy smiting with just about anything

[muktidata]

Completely depends on what level you're starting at. I'd do cleric/wizard with Alternate Spell Source if I'm starting higher level. Persist it all.

[RobbyPants]

My thoughts so far are: wizard 1/ duskblade 2/ wizard 2/ spellsword 1/ abjurant champion 5/ Eldritch Knight (or something) 9

Doesn't Spellsword have a prereq of BAB +4? How are you getting that with 3 wizard and 2 duskblade levels?


Another option is the sorcerer/paladin build:

Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8.

I think that nets you CL 18 and BAB 16, although you're working from a much smaller list of spells known. On the plus side, you get +Cha to saving throws, which can be helpful.


Alternately, a straight-up Cleric, with a PrC or two can make a fantastic gish.

[SneeR]

Aw,dang, I'm sorry, guys! I forgot to mention that I'm limited to non-setting sources, and Dragon Magazine is allowed on a case-by-case basis. Incantatrix and Alternative Spell Source are out.

RobbyPants brought up something I hadn't realized about the BAB, so I decided to go cloistered cleric at level 1 to fill out the fractional BAB for CloiClrc 1/ Wizard 3/ Duskblade 2/ Spellsword 1/  Abjurant Champ 5. I'll tell you about my build so far, and I'd totally appreciate guidance about where to go after level 2!

I'm second level so far with Boccob as my deity. I traded the free cloistered Knowledge Domain for Knowledge Devotion, got back Knowledge Domain to get all Knowledge skills as class skills, and got the Planning Domain for free Extend Spell. For my lvl 1 feat, I took Persist Spell.

Now that it's second level, I can Persist 1 lvl 1 Cleric or Wizard spell with Illumian Naenhoon.

I chose to go with Abrupt Jaunt Conjurer Specialist. I'm trapped on an island, so there will be no shops or people to buy scrolls from for a long while.
My spells are:
animate rope
grease
expeditious retreat, swift
mage armor
magic missile
silent image
wall of smoke

I'm really proud of my build so far, and I'd totally appreciate input on where you think I should go from here based on the above!

(STR 18, DEX 17, CON 16, INT 18, WIS 14, CHA 16)

[NumberKruncher]

Two things:

1) Are you dead-set on arcane?  Because I have a psi-gish that will knock your socks off.

2) If sticking to arcane, and obviously being buff-centric for melee, have you looked into the divine power gish?  All the same pwnage as a caster, one feat used to snag Divine Power.

I'd love to hear about this psi-gish!

[Rejakor]

He was probably referring to the Neo-Trancer.

I cooked up my own obnoxious version for an arena game once.  The end result was too powerful for most games, and probably the strongest gish made.

I should write up Spirit of the River at some point, although the concept isn't revolutionary.  It's mostly the execution that made it interesting.

[KellKheraptis]

He was probably referring to the Neo-Trancer.

I cooked up my own obnoxious version for an arena game once.  The end result was too powerful for most games, and probably the strongest gish made.

I should write up Spirit of the River at some point, although the concept isn't revolutionary.  It's mostly the execution that made it interesting.

I'm looking for the 100+ ML version now, actually.  It's basically what happens if you take Dragoon build 8 from Endarire's hood guide, change it to psionics, and then fuse it with my Twice-Betrayer Slayer wizard build.

EDIT: Here's another version using psionic death from above - http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=13279.0

Edit #2: Here's a more recent one - assume all version now utilize the erudite concerto trick with larval flayers as well for more ML.  If I ever clean by the laptop, I'll have the sheet with the math needed to hit relevant numbers.
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9889.0

[Rejakor]

Larval flayers have so many uses.  They're the swiss army knife of manifesting.

That second link is a discussion thread.  It's got the Chrono-Legionaire in it though!  I loved that build so much.

Speaking of which, anyone an expert on PF gishes?

[KellKheraptis]

Larval flayers have so many uses.  They're the swiss army knife of manifesting.

That second link is a discussion thread.  It's got the Chrono-Legionaire in it though!  I loved that build so much.

Speaking of which, anyone an expert on PF gishes?

xxx Whatever/10 Awakened Blade/xxx Whatever .  It's that good.

[Rejakor]

Ugh, it kinda is.

Is there a thread or something that has the highlights of the path of war initiating, or do I need to trawl through it.