Author Topic: Fear build optimization  (Read 3175 times)

Offline Azrael

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Fear build optimization
« on: March 14, 2015, 01:20:20 AM »
So I recently got into fear optimization and of course the first thing I encountered was caedrus' fear handbook and after reading through it a bit I began to formulate ideas for a divine prankster/SCM build, naturally of course he had a similar idea and went the bard route instead. My build gnome cleric 1, illusionist 1/dread witch 5/nightmare spinner 5/shadowcraft Mage 5/divine prankster 2/mind bender 1 (early entry with precocious apprentice of course) is more on the Wizardy side and I feel works out quite nicely. Except I have a few issues with the wording of some abilities that caedrus seems to hand wave as RAW.

First of all, in shadow illusion it explicitly states that the figments lose the figment subtype and gain the shadow subtype. Yet, caedrus seems to be using the nightmare spinner's ability to infuse figments he uses shadow illusion on. The way I read it, he wouldn't be able to since they are now the shadow subtype instead of the figment subtype. Is he mistaken or is this akin to something like priority in mtg where if you're the active player you can choose the order of your effects, I.e. While your silent image is still technically a figment you use the nightmare spinners ability and infuse it with the phantasm, then you change it into a shadow subtype via shadow illusion?   

The second question involves the greater fear mastery ability of the dread witch. Does her ability to pierce immunity to fear also cover immunity to mind affecting, since that is technically one form of fear immunity, or does it only apply to actual fear immunity?

Another question: does fell frighten apply its shaken condition if the opponent takes damage from the nightmare spinner's non-lethal augmentation? For instance, if I cast a spell that normally deals no damage but does apply a shaken effect which then triggers my nightmare spinner's ability to deal 1d6 non-lethal damage, if that spell was fell-frightened does it then apply the second shaken condition (making the target frightened)?

Additionally, if I am peircing a target's fear immunity with my dread witch's feature will that ability to cancel their immunity also apply to the fell frighten and nightmare phantasm effects since they are technically part of the spell?

One last question I had was regarding shadow illusion and non-heighten metamagics. Does shadow illusion go off the slot or spell level used? For instance, if I fell frighten a heightened (to 3rd) silent image so it uses up a 5th level spell slot am I able to cast an evo/conj of 4th level or lower (with 50%/70%(if 5th level) realness) or am I stuck with only a 2nd level or lower option unless I heighten it to 4th level and then apply the fell weaken (effectively taking a 6th level slot)?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 03:36:27 AM by Azrael »

Offline ketaro

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Re: Fear build optimization
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2015, 01:36:35 AM »
Oh I was totally going to comment but then I saw this is a caster.

I only know how to optimize fear effects with mundanes  :lmao

Offline bootzin

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Re: Fear build optimization
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2015, 10:08:28 AM »
Well, I don't have much to add to your build, but I guess you could use a gnomish quickrazor which you can draw and sheathe as a free action and use it without prejudicing your spell casting and make it out of Pandemonic Silver, so that anytime you draw it everyone but you need to make a save based on the speed of the wind or become frightened (or was it shaken?).. This could screw your own party though, so check with your players before doing this

Offline Chemus

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Re: Fear build optimization
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2015, 11:53:31 AM »
LIFO:

Shadow illusion is computed from the level of the spell used, not the level of the slot used. You'll want the gnome illusionist substitution level that makes silent image a 0-level spell,  Arcane Thesis (silent image), Earth Spell, and as many +0 Metamagics as you can get (invisible spell, cooperative spell, etc). Beware on interaction between invisible spell and your DM; it may cause automatic will saves for disbelief, rather than requiring interaction first.

As for the rest, I'm not up on fear effects, so I can't comment yet.
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Offline Azrael

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Re: Fear build optimization
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2015, 03:16:37 PM »
LIFO:

Shadow illusion is computed from the level of the spell used, not the level of the slot used. You'll want the gnome illusionist substitution level that makes silent image a 0-level spell,  Arcane Thesis (silent image), Earth Spell, and as many +0 Metamagics as you can get (invisible spell, cooperative spell, etc). Beware on interaction between invisible spell and your DM; it may cause automatic will saves for disbelief, rather than requiring interaction first.

As for the rest, I'm not up on fear effects, so I can't comment yet.

That's what I thought, I just wasn't 100% sure, thanks.

I was going to do the earth spell bit but I already went that path with my other SCM and I save a bunch of feats by not going that path. I know it's technically less optimized, but I'm not trying to do shadow miracles with this build so I figure I can do without earth spell.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 03:19:17 PM by Azrael »