Munchkin size a dexterity melee character

[bootzin]

Hey guys!

I'm going thtough a campaign with a couple of friends of mine, and they are really good optimizers, and sadly, I'm not that good at this kind of thing.. So, I was wondering, could you help me optimizing a melee DEX character? I think I'm going to need weapon finesse and the hit n run fighter variant, but I don't know much from there.. We start at level 5

As I said, this is supposed to be highly optimized, as my friends will do that a lot, and I know that melee characters aren't that good with it, but I hate spell casters and the like.. (They are not forbidden though, give advices as you will, just don't focus on spells

I wanted some tips on classes, items and feats

I love reach weapons, high ac, and supporting, although I'm not the biggest fan of sneaky types

Do you have any advices to give me? If you want additional info, we may work on a good build, but please, help me with this (:

[SorO_Lost]

You can dip Swordsage for at least one Shadow Hand Maneuver so you can take the Shadow Blade Feat to add Dex-to-damage all the time.

Is Hit-and-Run the actual name of the Drow Fighter?

Anyway, with Weapon Finesse that's Dex for attack, Str+Dex to damage, and you already have Dex to AC. So what else are you wanting, like just a dex-melee low-casting or like Scorpion from Mortal Kombat? Because we can totally do harpoons.

[Jackinthegreen]

Technically the actual name is "Hit-and-Run Tactics."

Shadow Hand weapons: Dagger, sai, short sword, spiked chain, siangham, unarmed strike.  So basically if you want reach and to be keyed off Dex you'll need a spiked chain.

One way to get more Dex is through the Reduce Person spell or the Compression psionic power.  Both will reduce your size and Str but increase your Dex.  Reduce Person is available to Sorcerer, Wizard, Sha'ir, Jester, and Spellthief.  Compression is available to Psychic Warrior and Psychic Rogue.

Having support through some light Sorc or Wizard casting might work for you.  Decent AC can be obtained through the Abjurant Champion class ability to boost AC on certain abjuration spells, a list of which I've made here..  However, in the end it's likely AC won't be a big thing because high-optimization enemies will have such a high attack bonus that it's often not feasible to get AC high enough to really benefit.  It's better to go with miss chances instead.

Dex tends to favor smaller races.  Luckily stuff like Underfoot Combat, Confound the Big Folk, and maybe Giantbane help against bigger opponents.

[bootzin]

I really liked the idea of smaller races using underfoot combatant and Confound the Big Folk.. I was wondering, is there a way of getting tiny? Although I think that it would screw up the idea of using a spiked chain..

I came across a class in 3.0 called the lasher, that allows me to threaten 5' around me, regardless of size.. And it seems to get rid of the bad things about the Whip too. Do you think it would combo well with a tiny character using Confound the Big Folk? And how well would ToB fit in this concept?

Shadow blade is good, but is kind of a problem as it's only a limited amount of weapons.. And Confound the big folk would allow me to get them flat-footed quite easily, right? So I guess the drow fighter would apply almost every time, right? Or is it easy to get rid of FF condition?

[Jackinthegreen]

Yes, there are ways to get tiny.  You can either play a small humanoid and use Reduce Person or Compression for one size difference smaller, or you can play a medium creature and use an augmented Compression to go down two sizes.

Being naturally tiny is possible with either the Jermlaine or Muckdweller races but those can be dodgy.  Look here for some info on them.

If you're thinking about a psionic option then the anthropomorphic monkey from Savage Species is LA+0 but is small, has 30 foot base speed, and gets bonuses to Dex and Wis.

Yes, going down to tiny would negate the bonuses a spiked chain provide since it wouldn't grant reach.

Lasher technically only allows for making AoOs within 5 feet, not actually attacking all the time into that area regardless of size.  It gains the ability to not provoke an AoO for attacking with a whip, but if the whip can't reach into an adjacent square (which it technically can't if it's sized for a tiny creature) then it can't make the attack.

I've always thought it a bit annoying that tiny creatures can't use a "reach" weapon to attack into adjacent squares, but that's the rules.

If you can work with your DM to allow for a tiny creature using a reach weapon to attack into adjacent squares then that would be quite helpful.  The spiked chain would allow for attacking in your own square as well as adjacent and you could get the benefit of Shadow Blade.

ToB works pretty well with this kind of concept, yes.  Maneuvers help out the usually lower damage dex-based melee have.

Yes, Confound the Big Folk would allow for Hit-and-Run fighter to get the Dex to damage.  It stacks with Shadow Blade so you could get 2x Dex to damage if you wanted.

Flat-footed is a state between an attacker and defender.  The good news is stuff like Uncanny Dodge doesn't prevent stuff that specifically refers to being flat-footed.  Take a look at the Flat-footing compendium for more information on ways to make enemies flat-footed.  That guide also includes conditions which make the target lose its Dex to AC, but that's a different thing than flat-footed despite some overlaps.  The SRD has a bit of a definition on it.

[sambojin]

While you've asked for a Dex fighter, is max Dex your goal? Because reach and large size are awesome, even if getting to large drops a couple of points of Dex.

Here's one I (and the rest of the internet) prepared earlier:

Illumian (UurKrau) +2 Dex checks, +2 spell levels, Dex as spell stat.
Fighter (4), Sorceror (1)
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain), Combat Reflexes, Weapon Finesse, Practiced Spellcaster for feats. You'll need to skill dump a bit into spellcraft to get the last one, but worth it for +4 caster levels (+6 total!).
Enlarge Person, Expeditious Retreat for spells.

Your spells last 7 mins and are useful. You smack anything that moves with a chain. You smack even more things when enlarged. You can trip or disarm a bit too. Heaps of AoO's, plenty of movement when needed. Could sub in something else for expeditious retreat if you wanted. +6 caster levels on sorceror spells makes anything pretty usable, 4 times a day, but you'll mostly use Enlarge Person.

Feel free to sub in a level of shadow blade for +Dex damage, or rogue for SA (you'll find it pretty easy to flank at will with 20' reach and 10' large size). You could go for Cleric (Celerity/Travel) if you wanted a bigger spell list, but no embiggenment then, which is the whole point of the build.

Do whatever. It's a one trick pony, but it's a good trick. Literally everything is tied to Dex, even spells, so you can't get more Dex fighter'y than that.

[zook1shoe]

the Jermlaine has one of the best racial Dex bonuses for any ECL 0 race

[Vizzerdrix]

Could also go half giant/ Eneko with a few castings of Return to Nature to get tiny.

I know the pyrokineticist gets a flame whip that is always 15 feet regardless of your size, and can be refluffed to come in almost any damage flavor too.

[zook1shoe]

Unseelie Jermlaine has +8 Dex w 0 ECL