Does 3.5 need unequal casting progressions between classes?

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

One thing that always bothered me about most non-full casters is that they aren't just knee-capped with low level spells. To add insult to injury the spells that they do get are so far behind full casters, that casting becomes an afterthought.

Indeed trading away spell levels as, say, a ranger isn't looked down upon just because by the time you get it, your druid has more spell slots for those very spells (and a wider selection too). Take a look at the list. Even if slow progression didn't kill ranger casting (and it does) a druid gets the spells at a lower spell level too.

Later on the designers realized equal casting progressions weren't that bad. Hence Mystic Ranger. Sure it suffered the usual sorcerer delay people so deeply dislike, but it was a fair cry from casting one lousy 2nd level spell at level 10. The precocious apprentice wizard in the party would ask, "why bother?"

So what would be the effects of forcing equal casting progressions on all classes (spontaneous or prepared)? I have a sample in the spoiler below that already assumes no 9th level spells. It seems T5's would rejoice and T1&2's would be a sad at the nerf. Sorcerers wouldn't feel so bad and bards would be viable alternatives until level 16. What else?

(click to show/hide)

Level	Full Caster	Factotum	Bard	Guess	Paladin	PrC
1	Gain 0th	—	Gain 0th	Gain 0th	—	(Prereqs)
2	Gain 1st	Gain 1st	Gain 1st	Gain 1st	Gain 1st	Gain 1st
3	—	—	—	—	—	—
4	Gain 2nd	Gain 2nd	Gain 2nd	Gain 2nd	Gain 2nd	Gain 2nd
5	—	—	—	—	—	—
6	Gain 3rd	Gain 3rd	Gain 3rd	Gain 3rd	Gain 3rd	Gain 3rd
7	—	—	—	—	—	—
8	Gain 4th	Gain 4th	Gain 4th	Gain 4th	Gain 4th	—
9	—	—	—	—	—	—
10	Gain 5th	Gain 5th	Gain 5th	Gain 5th	—	—
11	—	—	—	—	—	—
12	—	—	—	—	—	—
13	Gain 6th	Gain 6th	Gain 6th	—	—	—
14	—	—	—	—	—	—
15	—	—	—	—	—	—
16	Gain 7th	Gain 7th	—	—	—	—
17	—	—	—	—	—	—
18	—	—	—	—	—	—
19	—	—	—	—	—	—
20	Gain 8th	—	—	—	—	—

edit: CL progression is assumed equal. So caster level = class level.

[Jackinthegreen]

Mostly the designers thought that spellcasting + martial prowess = overpowered, so they spread things out.  And as the community has found out, the designers were totally fucking wrong on that.

The effects of forcing a standardized spell progression, assuming spells themselves also get properly standardized and balanced for levels, would mostly be bringing up the T5 casters to T4 at least for the part where they still have spells.  At 20th they'd still be T5 probably because of how crappy such low level spells are in the first place, and none of the other class features would really bring it up.

[Keldar]

I agree with Jack.

But getting rid of 9th level spells doesn't really solve dick.  It isn't the level of the spells that is the problem, its specific kinds of spells that cause problems regardless of level.  Polymorph causes shit as a 4th level spell, Shapechange is just everything bad about Polymorph on steroids Maximized, Empowered and Twinned.  Meanwhile Meteor Swarm is more crap than Fireball thanks to the resource cost.  There is no fast fix for the spellcasting issue.  The only fix is to slowly go through each and every individual problem spell and hack it down till it stops fucking the game up.  Its a big enough task that frankly, I wouldn't bother.    (Other than to steal from Pathfinder or whatever.)  That kind of effort is better spent making a RPG from scratch without all the inherent problems of 3E.
...
One of these days I should actually put pen to paper on that.



Anywho, this fix would at least make the minor casters more useful for the first 10 or so levels, so it does do something fairly useful for the majority of potential campaigns.  Even if Fighters still fail to matter.   
Oh, the half caster level hurts their casting severely too, can't neglect that.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

google chrome ate my post grr


Yeah what 5e goes BM ToB = 1/3rd caster = 1/2 caster with the latest UA article.
They might do a 1/2 = Full conversion soon enough; their mechanics say yes.

Drag the nons up to the fulls, is what F+K's Tomes do.
Drag the fulls down to the nons, is obvious but Cause Whys and Whines.

Could go all the Tiers somehow ... what, too much work ?

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

Go all the tiers ... what?

At 20th they'd still be T5 probably because of how crappy such low level spells are in the first place, and none of the other class features would really bring it up.

Yeah probably not enough, but figured it would be a decent buff.

Oh, the half caster level hurts their casting severely too, can't neglect that.

Thanks for the vote and ya I'll edit to make sure minimum Caster Level = class level

Also you can PM me with 9th level spells that are useful to have. The way I see it 9ths don't add anything good to the game that 8ths don't, while they do bring a headache.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

(I'm squarely blaming google chrome for that ... the 1 time I've made that excuse)
 


Presumably 5e really has a solid power scale, that
it's nons and 1/3 and 1/2 casters are legitimately balanced.
I think it's stretching things to say full casters are totally
in the same ballpark, or a even a gishydip build.

So yeah, if you can handle all that work
to get 2/3rds casters and 3/4ths casters
and 9/10s dip/prc'd casters, all balanced out.
IF
But man that looks like a lot of work
... and my kitty avatar's Tail is quite busy.