Author Topic: Binder Save-or-Dies?  (Read 5330 times)

Offline Avalon®

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Binder Save-or-Dies?
« on: November 25, 2011, 11:00:51 AM »
I'm currently making a 30th level gestalt char and I can reach somewhere around -20 penalty to saves to opponents thanks to various sources and I would like to capitalize on this.

Are there any good save-or-dies for a Binder at this level? Or are there perhaps any good items that have Save-or-Dies with a decent DC that are usable at this level?

Offline Noliar

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Re: Binder Save-or-Dies?
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2011, 12:21:31 PM »
There is Marochias's death attack, Dhalev-Nar's share damage, I think there are a few confusion and blinding effects.

Offline Avalon®

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Re: Binder Save-or-Dies?
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2011, 12:48:26 PM »
Marchosias's Death Attack takes some time to set-up so its not something you can reliably do in a combat situation.

Dhalver-Nar's Shield Self might work though I'm a bit worried since this at this level there are a number of ways to be immune to damage or make it inconsequential.

Offline Tshern

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Re: Binder Save-or-Dies?
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2011, 12:52:40 PM »
There is Marochias's death attack, Dhalev-Nar's share damage, I think there are a few confusion and blinding effects.
One of the mid-level vestiges also gets Phantasmal killer. Sucks, but still.
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Offline TravelLog

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Re: Binder Save-or-Dies?
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2011, 12:57:58 PM »
I'm currently making a 30th level gestalt char and I can reach somewhere around -20 penalty to saves to opponents thanks to various sources and I would like to capitalize on this.

Are there any good save-or-dies for a Binder at this level? Or are there perhaps any good items that have Save-or-Dies with a decent DC that are usable at this level?

What build are you using? Also, you may want to check out some of the Online Vestiges. Epic Vestiges in particular will be helpful to you. Tkhaluujin has a save-or-suck that stuns an enemy for 12 rounds. They might as well be dead.
Link

@Tshern: Haures gets Phantasmal Killer.
Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be.
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Offline Tshern

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Re: Binder Save-or-Dies?
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2011, 01:01:11 PM »
@Tshern: Haures gets Phantasmal Killer.
I knew it was one of the vestiges I have actually used. Haures' other abilities are just, well, better.
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Offline Avalon®

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Re: Binder Save-or-Dies?
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2011, 01:12:37 PM »
The Binder side is roughly Binder 10/Seidkona of the Iron Bands 10/KotSS 5/Binder +5.

I'm currently using only one Epic Vestige: Amun-her Khepeshef for the truckload of defenses plus Heal+Greater Restoration and the "unkillable" ability.

Which would be better? Binding an additional Epic Vestige or binding two additional normal vestiges?

Offline TravelLog

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Re: Binder Save-or-Dies?
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2011, 01:53:16 PM »
I love the Seidkona. I wish there were more Fey vestiges though...

Anyway, it probably depends on what you are trying to do. The Epic Vestiges do things none of the other vestiges can, but likewise, you can do a lot with two normal vestiges.
Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be.
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Offline Avalon®

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Re: Binder Save-or-Dies?
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2011, 02:04:55 PM »
I'm actually taking Xion the Fellblade from a little further down so I can have Daelkyrs and Kashalaq Quoris under my thumb.

Would taking say the Cephalocalypse (whose Stun I can easily acquire from Zceryll) or Siberys be better than any 2 normal Vestiges regardless of situation?

Offline TravelLog

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Re: Binder Save-or-Dies?
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2011, 02:41:20 PM »
I'm actually taking Xion the Fellblade from a little further down so I can have Daelkyrs and Kashalaq Quoris under my thumb.

Would taking say the Cephalocalypse (whose Stun I can easily acquire from Zceryll) or Siberys be better than any 2 normal Vestiges regardless of situation?

Xionn looks great, as does Siberys. But i don't think there is ever a time where it will be better regardless of the situation. You can always see how it goes then change it if you don't like it the next day.

Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be.
--Miguel de Cervantes

Offline Avalon®

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Re: Binder Save-or-Dies?
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2011, 02:51:15 PM »
It costs two Epic Feat slots to bind an Extra Epic Vestige though. Those two slots can be used to bind instead two regular Vestiges and I'm not sure if it would be kosher with the DM to add a daily Dark Chaos shuffle to my daily buff regimen.

Offline Azoriel

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Re: Binder Save-or-Dies?
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2011, 09:06:28 AM »
I'm currently making a 30th level gestalt char and I can reach somewhere around -20 penalty to saves to opponents thanks to various sources and I would like to capitalize on this.

Are there any good save-or-dies for a Binder at this level? Or are there perhaps any good items that have Save-or-Dies with a decent DC that are usable at this level?

Not sure if this counts, but Acerack's "paralyzing touch" will leave opponents helpless on a failed save, allowing you to coup-de-grace them.
-Azoriel