Author Topic: D&D 3.5: invited to play in a game, I'm totally unfamiliar with the game  (Read 15073 times)

Offline NumberKruncher

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Re: D&D 3.5: invited to play in a game, I'm totally unfamiliar with the game
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2015, 11:46:32 PM »
Thank you so much!

I took RobbyPants' advice on starting spells, and my DM is cool with me switching any if I'd like, since it was my first session.

I took Solo's advice on starting stats and feats. Again, my DM is cool with me fiddling with these if I want to. I'm a bit tempted to drop my WIS and up my DEX to 16, but I'm not sure if point buy will allow that.

To summarize: right now I have a human Sorcerer at level 4.

Stats: 8/14/14/10/10/19

Feats: improved initiative, eschew materials, silent spell

Spells:

0:prestidigitation, detect magic, read Magic, Mage hand, message, mending
1:grease, enlarge person, charm person
2:glitter dust

I also took a rat familiar. His background is as a moonshine distiller, and I figure a rat worked.

If anybody has any suggestions on switching up my first character, please LMK before Monday. Once I play my next session, I'm locked in.
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Offline Endarire

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Re: D&D 3.5: invited to play in a game, I'm totally unfamiliar with the game
« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2015, 12:01:37 AM »
Eschew Materials is a bad feat. Buy a spell component pouch (from the SRD) to get the same effect.

Extend Spell (for buffs) and Heigthen Spell (for reserve feats and spell DCs) are better than Silent Spell the majority of the time.  Silent Spell only matters if you can't speak, and you normally can.

I advise you invest in a +1 item of CHA for 1000G.  It'll make your CHA 20 and give you another L1 spell slot per day.

Treantmonk's Wizard Guide helps much for a Sorcerer too for spell exposure!
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 03:12:14 AM by Endarire »

Offline kitep

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Re: D&D 3.5: invited to play in a game, I'm totally unfamiliar with the game
« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2015, 06:23:27 AM »
If you're going to use Grease and Glitterdust, make sure you or your DM are familiar with the Balance and Blindness rules, or you won't get the full goodness out of them.

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: D&D 3.5: invited to play in a game, I'm totally unfamiliar with the game
« Reply #43 on: November 03, 2015, 07:59:40 AM »
The question is just my curiousity. I prefer the Sorcerer since it doesn't force me to play a high INT character. I'd rather play a charmer than a genius.
If you pick good spells for the sorcerer, they're a lot easier to play than a wizard.

A wizard is more powerful at higher levels, but most of that power comes from him being able to switch his spells on a daily basis (versatility) and that he has the ability to take a lot of specific, niche spells. Wizards can pull off weird combos and cast powerful spells that are situationally very powerful, but good enough on their own to justify making it onto the short list of a sorcerer's spells known.

Also, effective in 3.5, sorcerers can no longer benefit from Quicken Spell. Being able to cast two spells a round can be super powerful.

Stats: 8/14/14/10/10/19
Those are pretty good. They keep the DCs of your spells nice and high.

Feats: improved initiative, eschew materials, silent spell
If anybody has any suggestions on switching up my first character, please LMK before Monday. Once I play my next session, I'm locked in.
I agree with Endarire that you'll probably want to swap out Eschew Materials. As he said, a 5gp spell component pouch will take care of most of it. Otherwise, it only helps you if you're grappled.

If you're going to use Grease and Glitterdust, make sure you or your DM are familiar with the Balance and Blindness rules, or you won't get the full goodness out of them.
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Offline stanprollyright

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Re: D&D 3.5: invited to play in a game, I'm totally unfamiliar with the game
« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2015, 01:56:12 PM »
I think Charm Person is overrated for Charisma casters.  Even with just a few ranks (or none) in Diplomacy and Bluff, you can still do pretty well convincing NPCs to do stuff, without any "Did you just try to charm me?" repercussions.  Plus, the skills work on nonhumanoids too.  I suggest Silent Image instead.  It's useful in any number of both in- and out-of-combat situations and doesn't require a save unless they interact directly with it.

I wouldn't get any metamagic feats yet either, not until you've got a few spell levels to work with.  That said, I agree that Heighten and Extend are better than Silent Spell.  I suggest Spell Focus (Conjuration), as it improves the DCs for Grease and Glitterdust and is a prereq for Augment Summoning, which is amazing if you ever want to summon anything. 
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: D&D 3.5: invited to play in a game, I'm totally unfamiliar with the game
« Reply #45 on: November 03, 2015, 03:35:10 PM »
Yeah, if your DM will let you abuse Diplomacy, it is stupidly powerful, and it makes Charm Person kind of redundant.
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Offline NumberKruncher

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Re: D&D 3.5: invited to play in a game, I'm totally unfamiliar with the game
« Reply #46 on: November 03, 2015, 07:50:14 PM »
If you're going to use Grease and Glitterdust, make sure you or your DM are familiar with the Balance and Blindness rules, or you won't get the full goodness out of them.

where can those be found?
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Offline Gazzien

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Re: D&D 3.5: invited to play in a game, I'm totally unfamiliar with the game
« Reply #47 on: November 03, 2015, 08:00:31 PM »
If you're going to use Grease and Glitterdust, make sure you or your DM are familiar with the Balance and Blindness rules, or you won't get the full goodness out of them.

where can those be found?
Grease
Glitterdust
Blind
Balance

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: D&D 3.5: invited to play in a game, I'm totally unfamiliar with the game
« Reply #48 on: November 04, 2015, 08:11:27 AM »
Also note that the blindness rules there don't state that you have to pick the correct square to target someone with an attack. If they don't have a mini on the board and you guess the wrong square, you don't even get to make an attack roll; you auto-miss.

There are only a handful of ways to reliably locate someone's square without sight:
  • Blindsight - a rare ability that only a few monsters have.
  • Scent - they can only pinpoint your square if they are within five feet of you. I'm pretty sure scent doesn't tell you the direction of the creature. You just know if you're within 30 feet of them.
  • Listen (vs Move Silently) - Under the Epic rules for Listen, they say you can pinpoint a creature's location if you beat their Move Silently by 20 points. So, after you blind a guy, simply declare you're Moving Silently, and just eat the -5 penalty for moving full speed (or move half speed if you don't need to go more than 15 feet). Even if you don't have ranks in it, you still get to add your Dex mod, and you're still 15 to 20 points ahead of them on a d20 roll before they get to add in ranks.
Abilities like scent, blindsense, and tremorsense will let creature be aware of you (although, the probably already are), but they don't let them simply locate your square.
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Offline Vladeshi

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Re: D&D 3.5: invited to play in a game, I'm totally unfamiliar with the game
« Reply #49 on: November 04, 2015, 08:55:13 AM »
Abilities like scent, blindsense, and tremorsense will let creature be aware of you (although, the probably already are), but they don't let them simply locate your square.

Blindsense and tremorsense are both listed to pinpoint location.
I am pretty sure that that means they know what square you are in but still suffer miss chance.
Of course that would require you to be in range of their blindsense or tremorsense.
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Offline kitep

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Re: D&D 3.5: invited to play in a game, I'm totally unfamiliar with the game
« Reply #50 on: November 04, 2015, 10:30:12 AM »
If you're going to use Grease and Glitterdust, make sure you or your DM are familiar with the Balance and Blindness rules, or you won't get the full goodness out of them.

where can those be found?

Others have pointed to the rules, so I'll just summarize:

Glitterdust - you don't care about making your opponents sparkly, or even showing invisible creatures (usually).  The main reason for the spell is to blind your opponents (they get a save).  Blinded creatures have a 50% miss chance, and that's if they attack the right square, otherwise they automiss.  So simply move after casting.  They also lose Dex bonus to AC, which means the rogue can sneak attack them.

Grease - anyone in the area can't move, or they have to make a Balance check.  I don't think a balance check is required if they just stand there.  So the big sword-swinging enemy can't charge and wallop you, while your teammates can pick him off with ranged weapons.  While balancing, they lose Dex to AC, so again the rogue can sneak attack.

I believe Grease is also flammable, but I'm not sure what the rules are for that.  Off-topic, I had fun when I had a grease fire in my toaster over, and my reaction was to unplug it then toss in some water.  Lotsa fun!

Grease/balance checks can also make someone fall.  I don't think this ends their turn, but I do imagine it ends the movement phase (though they can double move).  It costs a movement action to stand back up, which again requires a balance roll.  Standing up from prone also triggers an attack of opportunity.  A prone character has a -4 to-hit on melee attack rolls and cannot make a ranged attack except with a crossbow.  A prone defender has +4 to AC vs ranged attacks, but -4 to AC vs melee attacks.

Good luck!



Offline RobbyPants

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Re: D&D 3.5: invited to play in a game, I'm totally unfamiliar with the game
« Reply #51 on: November 04, 2015, 11:45:18 AM »
Abilities like scent, blindsense, and tremorsense will let creature be aware of you (although, the probably already are), but they don't let them simply locate your square.

Blindsense and tremorsense are both listed to pinpoint location.
I am pretty sure that that means they know what square you are in but still suffer miss chance.
Of course that would require you to be in range of their blindsense or tremorsense.
Yeah, you're right about that. You still get concealment, but they get your square.

So, add those two to the bullet point list above. They're still relatively rare, though.
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Offline NumberKruncher

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Re: D&D 3.5: invited to play in a game, I'm totally unfamiliar with the game
« Reply #52 on: November 05, 2015, 07:47:42 PM »
Awesome, thank you so much!

If I were to change my feats, what works better?
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: D&D 3.5: invited to play in a game, I'm totally unfamiliar with the game
« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2015, 08:09:52 AM »
Awesome, thank you so much!

If I were to change my feats, what works better?
What's your overall goal? It depends on what you want your character to accomplish. A few ideas:

DC-based crowd control/summoning: Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning, Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration).

The idea here is that you get the DCs for some of your good spells (Grease and Glitterdust, at this point) higher, and if you want to summon, Augment Summoning gives +4 to Str and Con of your summons. If you do this, I wouldn't take a Summon Monster spell before Summon Monster III. Don't take one every level (every other at most). Other obvious spells to take after this point would be Stinking Cloud, Sleet Storm, and Couldkill (not necessarily all of them). If you take Sleet Storm, consider swapping out Grease for another 1st level spell, because they're so similar.


Area-based crowd control: Extend Spell, Sculpt Spell (from Complete Arcane).

This lets you make your crowd control spells last longer (if needed) and lets you change the size and shape of your area spells. Both increase the spell level by 1. So, consider a Glitterdust that is cast in either four 10-foot cubes, or one 20-foot radius sphere. You can blind a large swath of opponents, or pin-point four or more who are already in melee with your buddies.

This synergizes well with the DC-based CC list above. You can keep taking from both of these lists as you gain levels.


Blasting: Empower Spell, Maximize Spell, Twin Spell (Complete Arcane?), Arcane Thesis (Complete Mage), Searing Spell (Sandstorm).

Note: if you go this route, don't take more than three blasting spells in total (and probably no more than one at level four and two at level six or seven).

Blasting is already hard to do well, and you really need to be able to lay on metamagic feats to do it. You'll have the advantage of more spells per day than a wizard, but you have to know when to blast and when not to. Remember that an opponent who still has at least 1 HP left is still fully functional. So, your best use of a blasting spell will be to flat-out kill something. In 3rd edition, monsters have more HP than in earlier editions, so it's hard to kill monsters with blasting spells unless they're already low on HP or if they're weaker than you to begin with.

That being said, if you can squeeze in Arcane Thesis, it's great for reducing the cost of metamagic feats on one spell by one level apiece. You will have one "signature" spell, and will use that for most of your blasting. Maximize Spell probably isn't worth it unless you can reduce it's cost (normally a three-level increase on the spell's level).



Personally, I'd focus on one of the first two sets of feats first, and I'd make blasting a purely secondary part of the character. I wouldn't spend any feats on blasting, and would only devote one, and eventually two spells to it. I might branch out to Empower Spell at higher level (9th or so). Blasting is hard to pull off, and the only ones who are good at it are usually good to the point of being cheesy. There's not a lot of middle ground in 3E between sub-par amounts of damage and overkill.
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Offline Endarire

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Re: D&D 3.5: invited to play in a game, I'm totally unfamiliar with the game
« Reply #54 on: November 08, 2015, 11:51:59 PM »
Check out the UPS Man Sorcerer and Mailman Sorcerer if you want to blast.

I'm a fan of crowd control since even inanimate objects in D&D 3.5 can deal HP damage.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 11:55:08 PM by Endarire »

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: D&D 3.5: invited to play in a game, I'm totally unfamiliar with the game
« Reply #55 on: November 10, 2015, 05:44:37 PM »
Oh hi Endarire, we're not dead yet (?) !!


... I also took a rat familiar. His background is as a moonshine distiller, and I figure a rat worked ...

I like it, a rat shmart enough to be a Moonshiner. 
Most rats do work, but they have a reputation of being lazy.

So what are you , it's best customer or something?
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