[3.P] Optimize me Senpai!

[allhaillaharl]

   Hello there Brilliant Gameologists! I've found myself a challenge I won't be able to overcome without you all. I will also preface this post with an apology; I'm posting this from my phone, sorry in advance for any really strange formatting. So let's get down to it, I suppose. I will be joining a campaign in a week or so, and I had a relatively unoriginal thought for a character that I wanted to play, and would fit nicely into our proposed party. Unfortunately, I simply don't have the experience necessary to optimize the build. I gave it my best shot (See Mumen Rider, Episode 9 of One Punch Man) but I have a good feeling we'll be able to work out the kinks with just a little more advice!

   I tried to get as much information about the campaign and how he plans to run it as I could, and these are the things I was told.
      -All WoTC and/or Pathfinder material, including dragon magazines are fair game with only one exception, Psionics are illegal.
      -Was tentatively open to Homebrew, as long as he checked out and okayed it.
      -We will be gestalt characters, all starting at Level 7. (Didn't distinguish between CL and ECL. Open to LA buyoff)
      -No multiclassing penalties of any kind, because that would be rude.
      -Skill points and Feat acquisition are per Pathfinder rules
      -Assume 32 point buy.
      -Edit: We start with 21k gold.
      -I haven't heard anything about taking flaws, but I feel that the DM could be convinced if necessary.
      -Not sure if relevant, but the campaign will take place on Faerun.
      ~He wants us each to come up with a 1/day SLA unique to our character. He would also like it to have a drawback of a sort.

   
   As for the character himself, I plan to name him "Jitters", due in part to a particularly hilarious conversation I had with a friend about a Swiftblade with the Craven feat. The party urged me to consider playing a non-specific Sneaky Mc.Daggerson, and after a fair deal of homework delving through threads on this board, I came to the conclusion that my dream is to play a form of Multi Tele/Shadow Pouncer. (Another apology: I'm sorry if this post seems to jump around or otherwise seem scatterbrained and nonsensical, I'm not very skilled in organizing my thoughts - one of my motivations to seek your help.) For Jitter's race, I looked at a few options but two in particular stood out to me. Whisper Gnome seemed like an amazing find as far as optimization is concerned, and is also likely spot on as far as flavor goes. Catfolk and Lesser Tiefling weren't flavor hits, but do offer a nice array of stats, especially if the Whisper Gnome's -2 Con penalty paired with the Shadow-Walker template would be too crippling.

   These are things that I really want to work with;
      -I'm definitly more interested in going the Telflammar Shadowlord route as opposed to the Crinti Shadow Marauder.
      -Pathfinder's "Dimensional Agility" feat chain, and the Sun School feat are a must-have.
      -For the love of god, can we make Jitters a Swiftblade as well?
      -Hide in Plain Sight + Swiftblade psuedo-concealment = super happy fun times

   These are things I am opposed to working with:
      -Ruby Knight Vindicator. I know this is good. Too good, perhaps, for this campaign.
      -Unarmed anything. I'm fairly commited to wielding daggers or Quickrazors.

   So this is where things become difficult for me, partly because there are so many damn options available. This is a vague idea of what I have so far.

Totemist-2/Cobra Strike Monk-2/Swordsage-2/Telflammar Shadowlord-1   ///Class(s) X
   
   I know very little about Totemist besides the facts that it meets the requirements of 3/4 BAB class with cool stuff, ie Blink Shirt soulmeld. I feel like I read somewhere that feats can be invested here to increase the Blink Shirt's effectiveness, but I believe we'll be extremely feat starved, and it's pretty great without any additional investment. Cobra Strike Monk gives us a whole slew of goodies in addition to meeting the 3/4 BAB req. Flurry of Blows is required to take the Sun School feat, and the two level dip also gives us both Dodge and Mobility which are required further on in the build for Telflammar Shadowlord. Wis to AC also can't hurt. (On a side note, does the Wis to AC from Monk stack with the Wis to AC from Swordsage?) Swordsage-2 will qualify net us Shadow Hand maneuvers, and Assassin's Stance which will satisfy the sneak attack requirements of Telflammar Shadowlord. (Side note: is Adaptive Style an auto-include here?) Then I believe as per Pathfinder's skill rules, I believe we can qualify for Telflammar Shadowlord at level 7 as opposed to level 8, which will get us to Shadow Pounce one level sooner. From that point onwards, I had planned on Telflammar Shadowlord-4/Swiftblade 9. I would sell my soul to get that last level of Swiftblade, and perhaps my firstborne for the last two levels of Telflammar Shadowlord, but if I have to, I will make due without them.

   That leaves the other half of the gestalt build largely up in the air, so I can do little more than offer you the ideas I had, and hope that you can forge them into a shining paragon of optimization.

   -Wizard of any amount of levels would be greatly beneficial (I think). At the very least, it will allow more casts of Dimension Door, and will likely reward us with the ability to cast other spells to enhance our arsenal such as Wraithstrike, Haste (Swiftblade please!), invisibility of varying flavors etc. I had also read something about the Abrupt Jaunt ACF, but as far as I'm aware, it's only available to the Conjurer Variant... Unfortunately I have no interest mechanically on summoning anything, and it also doesn't fit the flavor of the character I'd like to create. But perhaps I've missed something.
   
   -Arcane Swordsage Variant, assuming Adaptive Style: Seems to be a great choice assuming we can pick up relevant spells. What would we replace the two levels of Swordsage with in the first half of the gestalt build if we decided to take a hefty amount of levels on this side? Also, I believe that semantically, casting Haste in this manner does not satisfy the prerequisites of Swiftblade. But I suppose an argument could be made that it simply does, and I believe that argument would be enough for our DM

   -Rogue of any amount of levels seem good. Tons of skill points, more sneak attack dice.
   -Assassin - A single level dip might be great at some random even-numbered level of rogue, if we go that route, as it offers a +sneak attack, and spells at first level.

   -Swiftblade: For the love of god PLEASE. Honestly I'm not sure if trying to get into this PrC quickly is the path we want to take, despite it literally being the coolest thing ever. Also, if we ended up taking it here, what do we replace it with on the other half of the gestalt build?
   
   -Duskblade?
   -Daggerspell Mage?
   -Eldritch Knight/Abjurant Champion?
   -Fighter, perhaps just for feats, if need be?
   -Any other suggestions?

If at any point in this build we have superfluous feats, there are certainly things that I would love to acquire, such as
   -Weapon Finesse. This might be borderline required.
   -Shadowblade. Extra bonus points if we can grab Gloom Razor as well.
   -Craven.
   -Darkstalker
   -TWF feat chain
   -Other Suggestions?

   If at all possible, once I/we get some sort of build together, will you Brilliant Gameologists help me compile an ordered list of the feats I/we take, and when/how we acquire them just so our DM won't be able to call us on foul play?

ERRATA: I also don't have a great idea of what to do for our given SLA. The DM hasn't said much about it, but I assume it is somehow plot related. Ideas are not just welcome, but encouraged.

And to finalize this shoddy wall of text, I'd like to thank you for (hopefully) humoring me and taking the time to read this. Even bigger thanks for anyone who spends time and energy thinking and/or replying to me!

[Keldar]

You're all over the place on your A side, and completely absent on your B side.  We'll need to spread  things out. 
Lets lay out the prerequisites to see what we need to work with.
TSl: Blindfight, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack; Hide and Move Silently 10 ranks (PF- Sneak 7 ranks), sneak attack +2d6, Dimension Door.  Same level needed with PF rules.
Swiftblade: Dodge, Mobility, BAB +3, Concentration 3, Spellcraft 3 (PF- nothing), spend previous level using all 3rd level spells to cast haste.  (That 3rd level slot thing kills so many options.)

Teflammar Shadowlord has haste.  Unfortunately its level 2, making meeting Swiftblade require needlessly using your 3rd level slot.  But its something to work with without putting casting on your B side.  You should be able to go Tefflamar Shadowlord 5/Swiftblade 8 on your A side.   Unless you choose to use your B side to get into Swiftblade before Shadowlord, you won't be able to get the last 2 levels of Swiftblade thanks to needing to have 7levels before you can enter TSl.

To cram in everything possible the B side should be Wizard (or Sorcerer or Arcanist, but those delay PRCs 1 level), though this means you can't load it with something that always helps your shadow pouncing.  Like say, Swordsage 20.  If you do this, Totemist isn't as important as you'll have dimension door from spellcasting to meet TSl Preqs.  So Wizard 20// Swordsage 2/Monk 3/Swiftblade 2/Tefflamar Shadowlord 5/ Swiftblade +8 (Note that the first +1 casting of swiftblade probably has to go to waste.  Monk and Swordsage levels are interchangeable based on need.).  Or Sorcerer 20// Swordsage 2/Monk4/Swiftblade2/Shadowlord4/Swiftblade+8.  ...I may have goofed on the Swordsage IL for Assassin's stance.  Cramming everything in is unpossible!

Or if you don't care about cramming in every Swiftblade level for that extra action to Bamf with at 9th, you can make your B Side Swordsage or Totemist.  Then the A side would be Monk 4/Other 3/Shadowlord5/Swiftblade8.

I can't find any Sun School feat, no clue what you are talking about.  But damn are all your feats eaten up.  3 for prerequisites.  3 for more shadow pouncing.  (And Dimensional Dervish requires BAB +6 so you can't get it till later.  And looking at the wording, I'm not sure if its useful to you since you can get move action teleports.  In nigh infinite number.)  You should have 1 feat for Weapon Finesse, or whatever the Sun School thing is.

As to your SLA- Dimension Door!  Lets you meet the Shadowlord prerequisite.


Oh, by the by, Monk and Swordsage AC don't stack.  Mostly because one requires armor and the other doesn't work in armor.

[allhaillaharl]

You should be able to go Tefflamar Shadowlord 5/Swiftblade 8 on your A side.   Unless you choose to use your B side to get into Swiftblade before Shadowlord, you won't be able to get the last 2 levels of Swiftblade thanks to needing to have 7levels before you can enter TSl.

Perhaps it might be more worthwhile to instead go Telflammar Shadowlord 4/Swiftblade-9.

I can't find any Sun School feat, no clue what you are talking about.  But damn are all your feats eaten up.  3 for prerequisites.  3 for more shadow pouncing.  (And Dimensional Dervish requires BAB +6 so you can't get it till later.  And looking at the wording, I'm not sure if its useful to you since you can get move action teleports.  In nigh infinite number.)  You should have 1 feat for Weapon Finesse, or whatever the Sun School thing is.

The Sun School feat is buried in Complete Champion. It gives access to three tactical maneuvers, but it's the third that happens to be relevant. It reads as follows:
Flash of Sunset: To use this maneuver, you must move adjacent to a foe instantaneously, as with a dimension door spell or the monk's abundant step class feature. If you do so, you can immediately make a single attack at your highest attack bonus against that foe.
http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Sun_School

So any time I teleport I get a free attack at my highest BAB which also stacks with haste. At the cost of a single feat, it seems absolutely fantastic considering there are few reasons not to dip at least monk-2 to pick up Dodge and Mobility. It seems especially efficient if an encounter lasts longer than my spells/day, as I can get some minimal value from recurring Swordsage's Shadow Jaunt and/or a move action teleport. Also, apart from Totemist-2, with the blink shirt, what other methods of infinite move action teleports are available to me? I think I might have missed something lol.

As for the Dimensional Agility chain + Sun School: Dimensional Dervish adds a number of sun school attacks where (N=Base-speed/5). After Shadowpounce, N becomes number of full attacks instead of single attacks. And finally the capstone, Dimensional Savant, allows us to flank unassisted, making all attacks sneak attacks as well. As far as I am aware/concerned, this ability stacks with the extra teleports granted by the TSL's Shadow Jump ability.

As to your SLA- Dimension Door!  Lets you meet the Shadowlord prerequisite.

Most likely. I had also toyed with the idea of a shadow-themed Wraithstrike, or the class ability granted by TSL-5 (Shadow Discorporation), some sort of Invisibility, or some sort of Mirror Image.[/quote]

Oh, by the by, Monk and Swordsage AC don't stack.  Mostly because one requires armor and the other doesn't work in armor.

Well damn. Though I guess between a single Wis to AC and the various forms of partial concealment, I'll be tanky enough as is.

You have all but convinced me that the B-side should likely be full caster, we just stand to gain so much from it. so I suppose my next iteration of the build would be
                                                                                                                              A Side
Wizard-6/Abjurant Champion-1/Eldritch Knight-1/Abjurant Champion+4/Eldritch Knight+7
                                                                                                                                   B Side
Thug-3(Sneak attack Fighter Variant)/Monk-3/Totemist-2/Telflammar Shadowlord-4/Swiftblade-9

The loss of Swordsage hurts as we lose access to Dex to Damage from the Shadow Blade feat, but I can't think of any configuration that lets us pick up a single level of swordsage and also have access to 4th level spells at Level 7.

Here is what I think our reqs and stuff layout looks like, hopefully.

(click to show/hide)

1- Feat from first level (Blind Fight), Hopefully trade Wizard familiar for feat (Combat Casting), Feat from flaws (Weapon Finesse), Sneak Attack 1d6 (Thug)
2-
3- Feat from third level (Dimensional Agility), Sneak attack 2d6 (Thug)
4- Monk bonus feat(Cobra Strike style - (Dodge)), Flurry of Blows class feature (Monk)
5- Monk bonus feat(Cobra Strike style - (Mobility)), Feat from fifth level (Spring Attack)
6- +10 speed enhancement (Monk)
7- Feat from seventh level (Sun School)
8- Feat from Eldritch Champion (_______)
9- Feat from ninth level (______)
10-
11- Feat from eleventh level (______)
12-
13- Feat from Eleventh level (_______)
14-
15- Feat from fifteenth level (________)
16-
17- Feat from seventeenth level (________)
18-
19- Feat from nineteenth level (________)
20-

Post Thoughts, areas of potential further optimization?
If we could somehow sneak a single level of swiftblade in at any point before level 7, our Spring Attack feat can instead be Sun School, which would in turn be replaced by Dimensional Dervish for a non-insignificant increase to our damage output. Even a single level of Swordsage allows us to qualify for the Shadowblade feat. Perhaps Totemist could be moved around to a later level, especially if we can take Swiftblade earlier for free Spring Attack, or even removed entirely if there are other avenues of gaining the ability to teleport as a move action. We're getting there though!

[Keldar]

1) With wizard on A side, Swiftblade can be taken at 6th on side B.

2) Standard Gestalt rules only allow one PrC at a time.  Made dang sure your DM is fine with your plans for PrCs on both sides.

3) Marital Wizard option, replace scribe scroll and bonus metamagic feats with feats from the Fighter list.

4) Depending on how you math the gestalt BAB, you may need to take Eldritch Knight before taking Abjurant Champion.

5) Carmendine Monk or Kung Fu Genious feat to change Monk's Wis dependence to Int dependence.

6) Conjuration specialists can trade their familiar away for immediate action teleports.  But familiars can use wands of spells like Benign Transposition.

7) You can always get the Shadow Hand stance you need by spending two feats if you can't slot in the Swordsage level.

8) Alternate B stub: Thug 1/ Monk 2/ Totemist 2/ Fighter (Sneak Attack variant) 1/ Swordsage 1/...    Or: Thug1/Monk2/Totemist2/Sneak Attack Fighter1/Swiftblade1/Shadowlord 4/Swiftblade +9