eldritch knight vs jade phoenix mage

[Masakan]

I'm sure this discussion has been done to death but which one of these is over all better or is there one that is better then both of them?

[phaedrusxy]

It depends on what you're looking for... In general, JPM is probably better, although it loses more caster levels, which is generally a no-no. If you want to get full BAB and full caster levels, the Knight Phantom is probably the way to go (assuming you can qualify for entry without losing a CL, by being an aasimar and buying off the LA or something similar).

[Sinfire Titan]

JPM may lose an extra CL, but it has class features that are actually useful. EK doesn't hold a candle to that.

Abjurant Champion is arguably better than both (but only 5 levels long), and Knight Phantom (5N) is strictly superior to EK outside of entry requirements.

[Hades]

Abjurant Champion is 6 levels long: the first level is called "1 (and only one) level in spellsword"

I agree that JPM is better than EK. It's true that JPM loses 2 caster levels, but even with a full JPM build you can get the nice breakpoint "BAB 16+ and ability to cast 9th level spells" at level 20.

[Masakan]

Abjurant Champion is 6 levels long: the first level is called "1 (and only one) level in spellsword"

I agree that JPM is better than EK. It's true that JPM loses 2 caster levels, but even with a full JPM build you can get the nice breakpoint "BAB 16+ and ability to cast 9th level spells" at level 20.

I really don't care for spellsword mostly because to get into it, you likely have to take a level or 2 in fighter which i consider subpar compared to something like a warblade or a crusader.

[Keldar]

Crusader meets Spellsword's armor and weapon proficiency requests.  Warblade doesn't.

[phaedrusxy]

the nice breakpoint "BAB 16+ and ability to cast 9th level spells" at level 20.

This used to be hugely overhyped back in the heyday of D&D 3.X optimization. Really it's just a nice way of downplaying the fact that you lost three caster levels, and you'll always be at least one spell level behind a full caster, and often two. If you really just want to play a fighter who uses magic a bit, that is OK. If you want to be primarily a caster, who also likes to fight with weapons sometimes, it is crippling. You don't need BAB +16 to fight with weapons, and if it really matters to you, there are ways of getting full BAB on a full caster (namely by persisting Divine Power).

[Amechra]

No-one's mentioned Swiftblade?

Don't let the fact that you lose 4 caster levels fool you - Swiftblade is one of the best Gish PrCs out there.

[SorO_Lost]

JPM is a 4 or 5 level long PrC of pure awesome. You trade a single CL for Martial Advancement in a +DPR Discipline & one that grants an even rarer healing addition and and free Empower Spell.

As a gish Desert Wind Boosts and freeing applying Empower to blasting/summon Spells you'll see a nice increase to your damage values. Rite of Waking is a nice compliment since it provides a +2 Bonus to your Knowledge Devotion checks as well as Fear/Death. The "unique" Stance provides some defense in the form of the much loved Damage Reduction (up to 10/evil) and a +2 dodge to AC (which includes touch!), it even provides a +1CL bonus so at least your damage-based Spells don't suffer from the progression loss too.

But as previously touched on, it also gives you Devoted Spirit which is the divine/paladin-like Discipline. For many Arcanes this is easily their sole source of Class-Granted healing and it's one of the only few working methods to heal in combat without a net loss. It's 6th level Stances are some of the most well known Stances in all of D&D optimization, from Chaos's increased damage to Order's "take 11" option in everything which is the greatest form of Natural 1 prevention ever made. Devoted is also home to the opponent controlling effects including the well known Thicket of Blades but between stuff like Entangling Blade & Defensive Rebuke you can punish foes for not focusing on the guy standing in a AOE.

It is a very solid class that is far more powerful than Eldritch Knight will ever be and it works in wonderful compliment with the Abjuration Champion & Spellsword to form a defacto standard of arcane gish'ing.

[Endarire]

The arcane gishes I know of (and often helped build) include Dragonslayer1/Spellsword1/Abjurant Champion7, often in that order.

[SorO_Lost]

The arcane gishes I know of (and often helped build) include Dragonslayer1/Spellsword1/Abjurant Champion7, often in that order.

You should stop helping people build gishes then, Abjuration Champion only has five levels.

I'm also not a transcriber to Dragonslayer simply because of the Feat tax, however if you're going that route to maintain full-casting and pick up the Martial Weapon Proficiency for Spellsword then you actually need to skip Spellsword. Like a Sorcerer 6 / Warmage 5 / Dragonslayer 1 / Knight of Thorn 4 / Abjuration Champion 4 may only hit 13 BAB, but on top of actually being legal and doesn't trade a single level of caster progression away. It gets two bonus Metamagic Feats to try and make up the Feat tax, ConMod/day +3/die damage with Spells for increased damage, party buff version of Cha-to-AC, double the ASF ignoring bonus since it clocks in at -20%, can use his weapon to deliver touch Spells, all the actually useful stuff from Abjuration Champion, minor boost to Divination, etc. It's pretty much caster++ in that it doesn't really sacrifice much for melee and gains several caster-related synergies instead of nothing.

[Endarire]

SorO: Clarification: The 'Warmage' you mention is the Age of Mortals PrC called 'War Mage.'