Author Topic: Need Some Help With A Character  (Read 7564 times)

Offline DeadEnough

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Need Some Help With A Character
« on: April 14, 2017, 12:33:35 PM »
Hey guys! Long time lurker, first time poster. I am in a bit of a conundrum and would like the advise/help of all you stellar individuals!

We are currently level 9 and the party make-up is as follows:

Level 9 Dex Battlemaster Fighter (Sword & Board)
Level 9 Lore Master Wizard
Level 9 Scout Rogue (Ranged)
Level 9 Hunter Ranger (Ranged)
Level 9 Bard, I think of Lore?

My original plan was to go for Warlock/Sorcerer and take advantage of Quicken EB but I see a lot of overlap and really, too much ranged and not enough melee support. That prompted me to think of something...new for our group but still effective.

My thoughts centered around The Hexblade and possibly paring that with Fighter (15 Fighter/5 Lock) or even going Hexblade Dragon Sorcerer (18 Sorc/2 Lock). THEN, I thought possible Paladin/Sorcerer.

This is where I need your guys' help! Which build is going to be the most effective and the most fun? Perhaps you guys can help me think of something I hadn't?

Thanks guys!

(Side note: Im more of a fan of melee anyways so....)

Thanks again!

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Need Some Help With A Character
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2017, 04:26:46 PM »
Given the make up of your party, and your preference for melee,
I'd suggest strongly to Not do the Sorc'Lock.  You'd be occupying
the same space as the Wiz Bard + 2 Ranged players.

Paladin + Sorc has it's own guide at giantitp.  Since you're starting at 9,
I'd suggest Sorc 1 / Paladin 6 or 7 / Sorc +X, but there's lots of options.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?502673-Unlimited-Blade-Works-The-Guide-to-the-Ultimate-Paladin-Sorcerer-Multiclass
Your party Fighter will than the level 6 saves help multiple times.

Fighter EK 6 / 'Lock 3 ... is also perfectly good to start.
Lock +2 / Fighter +X with the -5/+10 feat structure.
Tome is almost always the better choice.
Personally I'm not totally sold on Hexblade yet.
It hasn't been fully fleshed out, but it is playable.
And if that's what you want to do, go ahead it isn't bad.
GOO + Friends + the Disguise Self atwill = fun out-of-combat.

DMG Paladin 15 / Lock 5 shoots the gap of these 2, and
can get an undead army going ; if that sounds interesting.
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Offline DeadEnough

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Re: Need Some Help With A Character
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2017, 02:59:18 AM »
Thanks for the info!

I know The Hexblade is far from 100% optimized but I want to see it in play. The "Soracdin" looks waaaaaaaaaay deadly but a bit more spell heavy for me right now. If that makes sense?

Do you think a Hexblade Bladelock/Fighter could work? 15??Fighter/5 Bladelock?

Thanks!

Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Need Some Help With A Character
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2017, 11:53:19 AM »
Don't immediately write off sorcerer/paladin for being spell-heavy.  Haste makes you better at melee.  Shield and Blur make you more durable in melee range.  If you go with (new) Favored Soul, you can access spells like Spiritual Weapon that make you attack more and Spirit Guardians that make you a blender that's hard to get away from.  Focus on the parts of the spell list that make you better at the melee role and you won't feel like a spellcaster.

Fighter/warlock works but I'd question your level allocation.

Fighter 11 gives you a 3rd attack and fighter 17 gives you a 2nd action surge.  Between those levels, it can be hard to justify taking fighter levels unless you need ASIs.  Fighter 14 is a good cut off point for EKs because that's when Haste is available.  15 is an underwhelming level for fighter that's only really justified if you're going further in fighter.

Cursebringer's pseudo-smite would be an effective way to use the EK's spell slots to get extra damage without having to pump up intelligence.  Level 5 gets you 3rd level pact slots, but then you'd probably want to use the slots on something besides the Cursebringer smite since stuff like Elemental Weapon, Fly, or Haste are more useful than 6d8 of single target damage.

So I can see justification for Eldritch Knight 14/Hexblade 5/X 1, EK 11/HB 9, or EK 17/HB 3. I think there's something that must be more useful than either Shadow Hound or Arcane Charge with the final level.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Need Some Help With A Character
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2017, 02:53:03 PM »
Oh right New  FS , yet another I haven't fully digested (others have).
Sorc 1 / Paladin 3 / Sorc +X , rolls in nicely with the SCAG cantrips,
and some version is in that guide I already linked.


Fighter 1 / Blade'lock X , has it's own guide by Zardnaar on ENWorld.
Not sure again, how well Hexblade fits/subs into that.
But it is also playable.
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Offline DeadEnough

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Re: Need Some Help With A Character
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2017, 04:43:29 AM »
Sorry for the delay (out of town with some personal family stuff)in responding and I appreciate the responses.

Questions:

Can a Paladin smite cantrips?

I like the idea of a paladin/sorcerer after looking into it a bit further.

I also love the flavor of a warlock. I am trying to see how I can build a warlock/sorcerer melted build but kind of struggling as spell casters are not my forte. I was thinking how I can utilize Curse zbringer but it seems...odd. Why is Curse Bringer Greatsword (STR) and Hexblade requirement? The first level Hexblade basically wants you to utilize Charisma while using a weapon that's not two handed.

Offline gabrion

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Re: Need Some Help With A Character
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2017, 07:41:36 AM »
Why is Curse Bringer Greatsword (STR) and Hexblade requirement? The first level Hexblade basically wants you to utilize Charisma while using a weapon that's not two handed.

I'm really curious about this myself.  Personally it seems like bad design, but I've seen some say it was a very conscious decision to make the player choose between different (good) options.  In my opinion this works when a player has multiple good options in front of them and has to pick one (think of picking a Paladin fighter style), but falls apart when one is a core feature of the hexblade and the other is very tasty looking option later on, which requires you to be a hexblade but is counter-intuitive to a core feature given by the subclass (which of course can't be traded for anything else).

Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Need Some Help With A Character
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2017, 11:57:29 AM »
Quote
Questions:

Can a Paladin smite cantrips?

Two cantrips, Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade from the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, require you to make a melee weapon attack as part of casting them.  Smite works with these two cantrips because of the melee weapon attack in the effects of the cantrips.

Why is Curse Bringer Greatsword (STR) and Hexblade requirement? The first level Hexblade basically wants you to utilize Charisma while using a weapon that's not two handed.

I'm really curious about this myself.  Personally it seems like bad design, but I've seen some say it was a very conscious decision to make the player choose between different (good) options.  In my opinion this works when a player has multiple good options in front of them and has to pick one (think of picking a Paladin fighter style), but falls apart when one is a core feature of the hexblade and the other is very tasty looking option later on, which requires you to be a hexblade but is counter-intuitive to a core feature given by the subclass (which of course can't be traded for anything else).

The existence of Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter as big outliers to feat-based damage working against two-handed weapons and ranged weapons getting alternate ability score features.  Charisma would easily be the best offensive ability score if a Charisma-based weapon existed to use Great Weapon Master or Sharpshooter.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 12:00:26 PM by TenaciousJ »
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Offline sambojin

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Re: Need Some Help With A Character
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2017, 01:32:31 AM »
Since you've mentioned a bit of UA stuff and a pally/sorc build and a like of melee, there's absolutely no reason not to throw a Mystic (Immortal) level in there as well with a lvl9 start.

Pally (6)/ Sorc (2)/ Mystic (1)

Bestial form - Tough Hide for +2AC for an hour x2 daily (and some other stuff), Giant Growth so you can smite with a bit of reach when you want or just spread your extra attack around just by thinking about it, and anything else you want to mess around with.

Iron Durability is good if you want +1AC instead of +5' reach at any time (+3AC with Bestial Transformation for 2 hours? Yes please!), Mastery of Wind for some resistance and an occasional vision blocker, Mantle of Command for some reactive party movement. Anything really.

Yes, you'll be 1 level behind on Sorc spells and smite slots, but it's a really nice toolkit you get for that one level. All non-concentration for basic tanking, and really easy to understand, and stackable with magic if you want it. You don't want to know how high your AC can go. Grab whatever talent you want, it's just a "thingy".

The Sorcadin guide was written WAY before mystic UAs came out, and even just Bestial Transformation is spell-slot loss worthy, but you get other stuff with it too. Without feeling like a wizard, or going magic heavy. A 1 level dip that is worthy as hell for a pally build. Sorc levels the rest of the way, whether you want to use it magically or smitey, it's up to you. You'll be a powerhouse, with lots of nice luxuries slowly coming online as you want them. Or to just hit stuff harder, while being hard as balls yourself.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 01:51:53 AM by sambojin »

Offline sambojin

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Re: Need Some Help With A Character
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2017, 02:28:13 AM »
If you DO want to go magic heavy on a Sorcadin, Pally (2)/Mystic (1)/Sorc (6) really isn't a bad build either. Cantrippy smites and attacks, less use for Giant Growth (kind of, sub some other discipline in most likely), but +1AC all the time from Iron Durability + Bestial Transformation for +2AC is a lot better than most spells for "basic" pally stuff.

Could even drop either one of them and muck around with floating skill proficiencies from Nomad if you wanted.

Anyway, a 1 level Mystic dip makes a good build even better. Seriously. That level of AC with a few other options will ensure your DM almost HAS to single you out with bigger threats sometimes. It wouldn't be fair on everyone else otherwise.

Offline gabrion

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Re: Need Some Help With A Character
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2017, 09:41:05 AM »
I wanted to offer a few more thoughts about warlock/sorcerer mix, specifically comparing it to the Sorcadin.  As spelled out in the very well done Sorcadin guide (linked above), one of the features of that build is the nova damage potential by combining Divine Smite + extra attack + burning spell slots.  I'm not claiming I have put nearly as much thought into this as the author of the Sorcadin guide, but it seems to me that any of the weapon invocations from the UA warlock let you achieve a very similar build as the Sorcadin, but substituting Warlock for Paladin.  I think purely from a damage perspective the "Sorlock" actually comes out ahead because Divine Smite adds +2d8 base, +1d8 per spell level above 1st and is capped at 5d8.  The warlock invocations do 2d8 per spell level and don't impose such a cap.

The Sorcadin guide uses as an example of a nova attack at lvl 11 that results in 114 dmg (two attacks both using divine smite).  The warlock equivilent would be averaging 174 dmg in the same scenario.  I think the Sorcadin also hits a sort of plateau at that point because he can't channel higher spells into divine smite, while the Sorlock would theoretically be able to continue scaling damage with higher level spell slots (again, using the same secenario as the guide, but burning a 7th and 8th level slot as a 5 lock/15 sorc) would average ~300 dmg.  Of course, like the Sorcadin, you that's not counting the fact that you can still quicken metamagic a spell the same round if you want to. 

I think for this reason alone looking at one of the weapon invocations and building a melee Sorlock around it is viable.  Obviously such a build is different from the Sorcadin insofar as the base levels in Paladin are different from the base levels of Warlock (read: they are pretty different, but it's ultimately up to you to decide if you can live with the features of a Warlock base over a Paladin base).

I would also personally avoid hexblade for this reason.  I see the "Hex Warrior" ability as a trap because it is incompatible with any of the weapon invocations.  Subbing CHA in for STR on attack/damage sounds nice until you realize it doesn't work if you want attacks with potentially +16d8 dmg on them.  Lacking the armor proficiency could be bad, but more on that in a moment.
 Giving up the Hexblade's curse is a little bit more painful, but still not that bad unless you are really in it for the Hexblade flavor.

I like the combo of Great Old One Bladelock with Stone Sorcery.  This does a few things for you:
-AC is set to 13+CON plus you can wear a shield.  Shouldn't be overly hard to reach for 20ish AC this way (I think it comes out ahead of the Hexblade in medium armor, with the added advantage of not having to worry about DEX at all)
-That lack of need for even a bit of DEX to AC is welcome because you want STR/CHA/CON anyway. 
-Extra HP is always welcome.
-Claw of Acamar is my favorite of the Warlock weapon invocations simply because it has reach.  Reach not only gives you better odds of a monster ending up close enough for you to hit it, but in this case also works as a weird defensive mechanism because you can move to within 10' of a melee enemy (assuming it doesn't also have reach) and set its speed to 0' until the end of your next round. 
-In case you wanted Hexblade partially for the expanded spell list, Stone Sorcery covers some of the same options.
-When you get Stone Aegis (whether you want to start with it or pick it up later in progression) the damage reduction will probably be welcome by your party.  It isn't super high, but at least it isn't like certain BPS reductions that are bypassed by magic.  Moreover, it gives you a situational mobility option.

*******

Since you are starting at 9, obviously a split that gives 4 in each class would be nice for the ASI or feats if you have some you want.  You probably want the 2nd attack from bladelock so I would guess 5 warlocks is a sensible starting point.  5 Warlock (GOO if you like the above, Hexblade if you want the flavor)/4 Stone Sorcerer sounds like a good starting point.  From there I think you have a minor decision point regarding whether or not you want one more level of Warlock for Entropic Shield, or if you just go pure Sorcerer.

Offline DeadEnough

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Re: Need Some Help With A Character
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2017, 03:07:56 AM »
Why is Curse Bringer Greatsword (STR) and Hexblade requirement? The first level Hexblade basically wants you to utilize Charisma while using a weapon that's not two handed.

I'm really curious about this myself.  Personally it seems like bad design, but I've seen some say it was a very conscious decision to make the player choose between different (good) options.  In my opinion this works when a player has multiple good options in front of them and has to pick one (think of picking a Paladin fighter style), but falls apart when one is a core feature of the hexblade and the other is very tasty looking option later on, which requires you to be a hexblade but is counter-intuitive to a core feature given by the subclass (which of course can't be traded for anything else).

That's what I was getting at. It is the only option available to the Hexblade archetype which gives you the CHA bonus to damage while claw of acamar and Mace of Dispater are one handed and give you the pseudo paladin smite.

Hopefully there is better clarity when/if it gets updated.

Offline DeadEnough

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Re: Need Some Help With A Character
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2017, 03:10:00 AM »
Quote
Questions:

Can a Paladin smite cantrips?

Two cantrips, Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade from the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, require you to make a melee weapon attack as part of casting them.  Smite works with these two cantrips because of the melee weapon attack in the effects of the cantrips.

Why is Curse Bringer Greatsword (STR) and Hexblade requirement? The first level Hexblade basically wants you to utilize Charisma while using a weapon that's not two handed.

I'm really curious about this myself.  Personally it seems like bad design, but I've seen some say it was a very conscious decision to make the player choose between different (good) options.  In my opinion this works when a player has multiple good options in front of them and has to pick one (think of picking a Paladin fighter style), but falls apart when one is a core feature of the hexblade and the other is very tasty looking option later on, which requires you to be a hexblade but is counter-intuitive to a core feature given by the subclass (which of course can't be traded for anything else).

The existence of Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter as big outliers to feat-based damage working against two-handed weapons and ranged weapons getting alternate ability score features.  Charisma would easily be the best offensive ability score if a Charisma-based weapon existed to use Great Weapon Master or Sharpshooter.

Thanks! So while using those cantrips, a paladin can smite with it. Can a paladin expend "Cantrip Slots" for smite?

Offline DeadEnough

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Re: Need Some Help With A Character
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2017, 04:09:38 AM »
I wanted to offer a few more thoughts about warlock/sorcerer mix, specifically comparing it to the Sorcadin.  As spelled out in the very well done Sorcadin guide (linked above), one of the features of that build is the nova damage potential by combining Divine Smite + extra attack + burning spell slots.  I'm not claiming I have put nearly as much thought into this as the author of the Sorcadin guide, but it seems to me that any of the weapon invocations from the UA warlock let you achieve a very similar build as the Sorcadin, but substituting Warlock for Paladin.  I think purely from a damage perspective the "Sorlock" actually comes out ahead because Divine Smite adds +2d8 base, +1d8 per spell level above 1st and is capped at 5d8.  The warlock invocations do 2d8 per spell level and don't impose such a cap.

The Sorcadin guide uses as an example of a nova attack at lvl 11 that results in 114 dmg (two attacks both using divine smite).  The warlock equivilent would be averaging 174 dmg in the same scenario.  I think the Sorcadin also hits a sort of plateau at that point because he can't channel higher spells into divine smite, while the Sorlock would theoretically be able to continue scaling damage with higher level spell slots (again, using the same secenario as the guide, but burning a 7th and 8th level slot as a 5 lock/15 sorc) would average ~300 dmg.  Of course, like the Sorcadin, you that's not counting the fact that you can still quicken metamagic a spell the same round if you want to. 

I think for this reason alone looking at one of the weapon invocations and building a melee Sorlock around it is viable.  Obviously such a build is different from the Sorcadin insofar as the base levels in Paladin are different from the base levels of Warlock (read: they are pretty different, but it's ultimately up to you to decide if you can live with the features of a Warlock base over a Paladin base).

I would also personally avoid hexblade for this reason.  I see the "Hex Warrior" ability as a trap because it is incompatible with any of the weapon invocations.  Subbing CHA in for STR on attack/damage sounds nice until you realize it doesn't work if you want attacks with potentially +16d8 dmg on them.  Lacking the armor proficiency could be bad, but more on that in a moment.
 Giving up the Hexblade's curse is a little bit more painful, but still not that bad unless you are really in it for the Hexblade flavor.

I like the combo of Great Old One Bladelock with Stone Sorcery.  This does a few things for you:
-AC is set to 13+CON plus you can wear a shield.  Shouldn't be overly hard to reach for 20ish AC this way (I think it comes out ahead of the Hexblade in medium armor, with the added advantage of not having to worry about DEX at all)
-That lack of need for even a bit of DEX to AC is welcome because you want STR/CHA/CON anyway. 
-Extra HP is always welcome.
-Claw of Acamar is my favorite of the Warlock weapon invocations simply because it has reach.  Reach not only gives you better odds of a monster ending up close enough for you to hit it, but in this case also works as a weird defensive mechanism because you can move to within 10' of a melee enemy (assuming it doesn't also have reach) and set its speed to 0' until the end of your next round. 
-In case you wanted Hexblade partially for the expanded spell list, Stone Sorcery covers some of the same options.
-When you get Stone Aegis (whether you want to start with it or pick it up later in progression) the damage reduction will probably be welcome by your party.  It isn't super high, but at least it isn't like certain BPS reductions that are bypassed by magic.  Moreover, it gives you a situational mobility option.

*******

Since you are starting at 9, obviously a split that gives 4 in each class would be nice for the ASI or feats if you have some you want.  You probably want the 2nd attack from bladelock so I would guess 5 warlocks is a sensible starting point.  5 Warlock (GOO if you like the above, Hexblade if you want the flavor)/4 Stone Sorcerer sounds like a good starting point.  From there I think you have a minor decision point regarding whether or not you want one more level of Warlock for Entropic Shield, or if you just go pure Sorcerer.

Why an even split? Why not just go Warlock 2 GOO/7 Stone Sorc? You don't really benefit from an extra attack with Booming Blade Quicken Booming Blade.

Would Draconic Bloodline work as well with plate? Perhaps This:

GOO Warlock 2/Favored Soul Sorc 7

Half Elf

STR: 16
DEX: 10
CON: 14
INT: 8
WIS: 12
CHA: 16

ASI: Either Warcaster or STR bump

Thoughts?

Offline gabrion

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Re: Need Some Help With A Character
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2017, 07:50:02 AM »
Why an even split? Why not just go Warlock 2 GOO/7 Stone Sorc? You don't really benefit from an extra attack with Booming Blade Quicken Booming Blade.

Would Draconic Bloodline work as well with plate? Perhaps This:

GOO Warlock 2/Favored Soul Sorc 7

Half Elf

STR: 16
DEX: 10
CON: 14
INT: 8
WIS: 12
CHA: 16

ASI: Either Warcaster or STR bump

Thoughts?

I think that's fine too, but I'm not sure what you meant by draconic with plate (followed by favored soul in the build outline).  Regardless of what you pick, if you plan to be mostly melee, I wouldn't overlook AC.  The draconic sorcerer's alternate calc doesn't do much in this regard as you can't afford to invest in DEX.  And I'm not sure if this is what you are getting at, but the Favored Soul doesn't give armor proficiency (I'm far from an expert, but I think I remember reading that a past iteration did, but they took that away from it).  So I still think Stone Sorcery is solid because you will want some CON anyway.  With 14 CON and a +1 shield I think you are at 18 AC?  Not over the top, but not terrible (plus careful use of the shield spell can help when really needed).

As far as the split, extra attack is optional, but not wasted for a few reasons:

1) Relying on two attacks/round from quicken burns resources.  Look at how many sorcery points you will have.  For those (possibly not infrequent) times when you need to do your job of hitting bad guys, but can't justify pouring extra resources into it, it will be nice to be able to hit twice.
2) On the other hand, when you really want to show off and burn through resources to take down a baddie fast, you will get three pactsmites per round if you have extra attack (vs two if you rely on only quicken).  With 3rd level slots that will be 3x normal attack damage + 1x GFB or BB damage + 18d8, so probably ~110-120 dmg?  For rough math I think you can expect about 2/3rds that nova damage if you don't have extra attack.  Edit: I'm wrong about this because with 5 lock/4 sorc you would only have 2 3rd level slots so the third attack would use a 2nd level slot (so 3x attack damage + 16d8 pactsmite).  The 2 lock/7 sorc would actually be able to spend a 4th and a 3rd level spell (so 2x attack damage + 14d8 pactsmite).  Numbers aren't so far apart, but as you level the warlock 5 base should grow an advantage as you are able to spend higher level spell slots on 3x smiting.
3) If you do go with Claw of Acamar, you want extra attack because it has reach and GFB/BB are limited to 5'.  If you decide 2 warlock is enough and double casting GFB/BB is going to be your go to, then Mace of Dispater may be better as you'll need to be in 5' range anyway (and the temp HP from fiend pact aren't terrible either...unless you are trying to also pull off some armor of agathys tricks).
4) Keep in mind you might want to do something else with your bonus action anyway (a smite spell if you happen to go with stone sorcery?).  In these cases, still having 2 attacks when you take the attack action is nice.

Besides the extra attack, I suggested such an even split because of the ASIs.  If you go with a one hander and shield (again, I was assuming stone sorcery) you need war caster, unless I misunderstand how casting and holding items works.  Or maybe, since you indicated you don't want to get bogged down in a lot of casting, you can skip this and only cast spells without somantic components during combat and basically reserve all your spell slots for pactsmites.  If you do want war caster you are either a human with 2 ASIs with an even split, or a half elf with 1.  Without war caster you are a half elf with 2 ASIs (no point in human here).  Either way you want STR, CON, and CHA, so having 2 ASIs is nice.  A split that only gives 1 (Helf with only 2 warlock levels) is either only getting a single +2 bonus or none at all if he picks up war caster.

You picked pretty balanced stats, but if you really threw caution to the wind on your "dump" stats, you could start Helf with 16/16/16 in your core abilities and have STR and CHA both at 18 when you start the game with the dual ASI split (granted this only gives you 2 points left over, leaving INT at 8 and either DEX or WIS at 8 as well, with the other at 10).

****

Ultimately if I were playing this character and seriously wanted to be mostly a consistent melee striker with decent defense, some lockdown, and really good nova potential (without worrying overly much about spellcasting) I would start 5 lock/4 sorc.  If I still wanted the nova potential, but was willing to give up some of the consistency in my melee damage for a chance at actually using higher level spells for things outside smiting, I would start 2 warlock/7 sorc.

Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Need Some Help With A Character
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2017, 10:03:03 AM »
Quote from: DeadEnough

Thanks! So while using those cantrips, a paladin can smite with it. Can a paladin expend "Cantrip Slots" for smite?

Cantrips don't have slots.  You can't expend something that doesn't exist.
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Offline DeadEnough

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Re: Need Some Help With A Character
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2017, 02:32:39 PM »
Quote from: DeadEnough

Thanks! So while using those cantrips, a paladin can smite with it. Can a paladin expend "Cantrip Slots" for smite?

Cantrips don't have slots.  You can't expend something that doesn't exist.

Appreciate it! Thanks for all of the insight guys!