Author Topic: Fun uses for Energy Transformation Field  (Read 7445 times)

Offline FireInTheSky

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Fun uses for Energy Transformation Field
« on: October 11, 2013, 03:36:29 AM »
Inspired by posts in this thread.  :plotting


This post records the outrageous?? results of a side conversation between myself and MetroMagic about dastardly devastatingly delicious uses of Energy Transformation Field.

I'll put the tl;dr first: ETF and its coupled effect(s) can be made into an infinite loop that fills infinite space completely and instantaneously. Possibly even the entire Multiverse of connectable Planes.


And now the full explanation of the simple... well, not that simple... method:

---Consider that the ETF can be made into a cube instead of a sphere by Sculpt Spell. (If there's a reason why this doesn't work, then the method overall does not fail but it does not fill space fully unless another solution can be found.) Picture eight cubic ETFs adjacent to a point; that's space being completely filled by a 2 by 2 by 2 array of cubic ETFs.

---The designation of the "point" within the ETF where the coupled spell triggers can be anywhere within the ETF's radius, including close enough to that central point so that the AoE of that spell falls into each of the eight ETFs. Since the ETFs don't overlap, they don't compete for the spell energy; instead each one receives the total absorption levels from it.

---If each of the eight ETFs is set up this way, there can be plenty of spell energy generated so that all of them trigger each other over and over again.

---The triggered spell could itself be an ETF. The point where it is cast within its ETF must be specified carefully by using a frame of reference within each ETF that spreads the effects outward from the first 2x2x2 block into another adjacent 2x2x2 block of space. Add a ladder-like twist to the frame of reference to get the ETF block creations marching around the expanding surface like stacked building blocks.
(click to show/hide)

---Given the foregoing, the triggered spell could be a Chain Contingency specified as loaded with an ETF and your two other favorite spells, whatever they may be; now the ETFs spread throughout space and bring other spells along with them.

---If you don't like the idea of pre-loaded Chain Contingency, but want the loaded spells to be cast into it, this might be accomplished by a dimensionally higher order hypercube of ETFs projecting multiple effects into 3D space, assuming proper frame of reference specifiers. There is no restriction on ETF that says its radius is limited to be a 3D spell.

---Three side issues, briefly: (1) Why instantaneous? The ETF's spell triggers as soon as the conditions are met; no delay. There is no mention of casting time. Therefore the entire structure of ETFs generates without delay. (2) Can my other favorite spell be Fireball to fill the Multiverse? Sure. The Contingency spell requires only that the chained spell must be no higher than 6th level, and person-affecting, which a Fireball certainly is. (3) ETF is 6th level and affects the caster if inside it, for example if the caster tries to use SLAs.

We think it's best to stop here and let others comment, and let even more others solve the objections raised by the first batch of others.

In that way, these ideas about ETF will spread to fill the Multiverse, in a perfect demonstration of the idea itself...  how delightfully recursive!

FITS and MM

PS. No wonder Magic doesn't seem to work in our own Prime Material Plane - it's been filled with blank ETFs...

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Fun uses for Energy Transformation Field
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2013, 08:59:07 AM »
---The triggered spell could itself be an ETF.
This is incorrect.

Quote
Spells that have a costly material component or an XP cost cannot be linked to a field...

Material Component: Three drops of your blood, an eye from any humanoid, and 5,000 gp worth of powdered diamond.
XP Cost: 250 XP.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Fun uses for Energy Transformation Field
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2013, 09:40:44 AM »
I also doubt that any DM would allow one spell to simultaneously power multiple non-overlapping ETFs, because they "don't compete".

Even ignoring things that are obviously against RAI (and maybe RAW), this spell is still insanely awesome. Here is a proposed trap setup using it which elaborates on my post in the thread linked to in the OP:

1) A Stone Trap spell, which is plugging a hole in the ceiling, but doesn't quite fill the hole. Within a space above this "plug" is a large amount of green slime.
(click to show/hide)

The "trigger" for the Stone Trap is an Antimagic Field going into effect under it (which might not even be necessary, as the AMF might cause the stone to fall anyway).

2) A permanent Wall of Force, blocking a hallway/tunnel. (This could instead be powered by an ETF which is constantly replenished somehow, perhaps by someone repeatedly casting spells into it from the other side of the WoF).

3) An ETF which triggers an AMF. This is positioned to absorb any Disintegrate spells aimed to bring down the WoF in 2. This also brings down the Stone Trap + its "payload" of Green Slime.

This could obviously be elaborated on further, and there are certainly ways to bypass it. But it could be fun to spring on an unsuspecting party. :D
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Offline Gazzien

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Re: Fun uses for Energy Transformation Field
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2013, 10:52:48 AM »

Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Fun uses for Energy Transformation Field
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2013, 12:16:02 PM »
2) A permanent Wall of Force, blocking a hallway/tunnel. (This could instead be powered by an ETF which is constantly replenished somehow, perhaps by someone repeatedly casting spells into it from the other side of the WoF).
The "caster" on the other side could be a Spellturret inside the ETF.

Question:  What is triggering the AMF?

I guess you could have it work this way...

Two overlapping 80-foot diameter ETF's, filling an 80'x10' hallway, with a spellturret at the far end.  The first ETF creates an AMF below the Stone Trap, and the second creates a Wall of Force just outside the AMF (on the spellturret side).  You can't actually make the WoF overlap with the AMF, as it is random which would absorb any given spell, and if you activate the AMF first, the WoF won't be able to come into effect if it is actually overlapping with the AMF.  But, you can get it close enough that a PC's can't fit between them to cast disintegrate (well, unless he has Shapechange -> Flea).

It's not perfect, but it's still pretty good.

Offline altpersona

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Re: Fun uses for Energy Transformation Field
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2013, 12:48:56 PM »
item of etf in the hands of a warlock.

cheap unlimited wishes?
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Offline ksbsnowowl

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Re: Fun uses for Energy Transformation Field
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2013, 01:32:33 PM »
These things are fun. Old thread.
Drat! I'm very sorry to see it was raised from 6th to 7th level when reprinted in the SpC... :pout

When it was 6th level, you could easily cast it via Limited Wish.  The only downside was it cost you 300 xp instead of the 250 xp the spell normally cost.  It was great for Sorcerers.  As a 7th level spell... bugger, that won't work  :shakefist

Offline Gazzien

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Re: Fun uses for Energy Transformation Field
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2013, 03:11:38 PM »
These things are fun. Old thread.
Drat! I'm very sorry to see it was raised from 6th to 7th level when reprinted in the SpC... :pout

When it was 6th level, you could easily cast it via Limited Wish.  The only downside was it cost you 300 xp instead of the 250 xp the spell normally cost.  It was great for Sorcerers.  As a 7th level spell... bugger, that won't work  :shakefist
Yep :/

Still, it's a really, really nice spell!

Offline Childe

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Re: Fun uses for Energy Transformation Field
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2013, 08:41:47 PM »
So... 0-level spells.

Also, Sanctum Spell out of sanctum. The trigger is keyed to spell level, not the spell slot used for the linked spell.

Also, Soultwister Shugenja. Level 7 SLA at-will at level 1 or 2, I forget.

But really, I can't think of a way not to break this spell.

Quote from: Strongbad
No two Energy Transformation Fields are not broken.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Fun uses for Energy Transformation Field
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2013, 11:10:51 PM »
2) A permanent Wall of Force, blocking a hallway/tunnel. (This could instead be powered by an ETF which is constantly replenished somehow, perhaps by someone repeatedly casting spells into it from the other side of the WoF).
The "caster" on the other side could be a Spellturret inside the ETF.

Question:  What is triggering the AMF?
The party trying to Disintegrate (or Dimension Door past, etc) the Wall of Force. Of course, you have to worry about them being too far away for the ETF to absorb it, but if you just put a curve in the tunnel so that they have to be close to have LoS/LoE, that (likely) fixes the problem. :)
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Offline altpersona

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Re: Fun uses for Energy Transformation Field
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2013, 11:15:30 PM »
two invisible fireball efts pointed at each other.

needs a push start to get it going, but then it just keeps going. and before you know what hit you, it hits you again.
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Offline altpersona

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Re: Fun uses for Energy Transformation Field
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2013, 11:21:38 PM »
Living spell template

gains Spell resistance  :rolleyes
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Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: Fun uses for Energy Transformation Field
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2013, 12:32:58 AM »
---The triggered spell could itself be an ETF.
This is incorrect.

Quote
Spells that have a costly material component or an XP cost cannot be linked to a field...

Material Component: Three drops of your blood, an eye from any humanoid, and 5,000 gp worth of powdered diamond.
XP Cost: 250 XP.

 :facepalm  Well, there goes that idea...


Phae, how did the  EIOG party not use these?!?!?! The entire complex could have been filled with them!  :evillaugh

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Fun uses for Energy Transformation Field
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2013, 10:30:36 AM »
More limited access to 7th-level spells. Arkesh can cast 6th easily, but 7th are hard.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Fun uses for Energy Transformation Field
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2013, 09:37:14 AM »
---The triggered spell could itself be an ETF.
This is incorrect.

Quote
Spells that have a costly material component or an XP cost cannot be linked to a field...

Material Component: Three drops of your blood, an eye from any humanoid, and 5,000 gp worth of powdered diamond.
XP Cost: 250 XP.

 :facepalm  Well, there goes that idea...


Phae, how did the  EIOG party not use these?!?!?! The entire complex could have been filled with them!  :evillaugh
More limited access to 7th-level spells. Arkesh can cast 6th easily, but 7th are hard.
This.

We had some odd higher level abilities from specific classes (Symbols, Wall of Force, Forcecage, etc), but most of us weren't high enough level to actually cast something like this. We did have a few 14th levels, but they were not dedicated spellcasters (really no one is, except maybe the Ur-Priest T Rex who dropped out early on). Bracken was a sorcerer-gish, so maybe he could have managed it, but he joined later and spells known are especially precious for stalwart battle sorcerers. :P I guess the Margravine could have probably emulated while inside the Dream Heart, though... since it seems she can basically do anything. :P I'm not sure it would have hung around afterwards, though. Her emulated spells all have a 1 round duration.

Also, we just didn't think of it. ;)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 09:42:24 AM by phaedrusxy »
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Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: Fun uses for Energy Transformation Field
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2013, 01:16:48 PM »
Phae, how did the  EIOG party not use these?!?!?! The entire complex could have been filled with them!  :evillaugh
More limited access to 7th-level spells. Arkesh can cast 6th easily, but 7th are hard.
This.

We had some odd higher level abilities from specific classes (Symbols, Wall of Force, Forcecage, etc), but most of us weren't high enough level to actually cast something like this. We did have a few 14th levels, but they were not dedicated spellcasters (really no one is, except maybe the Ur-Priest T Rex who dropped out early on). Bracken was a sorcerer-gish, so maybe he could have managed it, but he joined later and spells known are especially precious for stalwart battle sorcerers. :P I guess the Margravine could have probably emulated while inside the Dream Heart, though... since it seems she can basically do anything. :P I'm not sure it would have hung around afterwards, though. Her emulated spells all have a 1 round duration.

Also, we just didn't think of it. ;)

I think it's been proven in this game that spell editions don't really matter. :D Although, I think all of the evil party who were based on D&D were 3.5 correct? If there were any using 3.0 material in their build, then an argument could be made to use that version.

Still, not thinking of it would be quite a hindrance. :P It's the perfect spell for that game though!