[3.5] [ToB] [Stance] Slippery Mind as a Stance [P.E.A.C.H.]

[Draco Dei]

Hidden Will
Shadow Hand (Stance)
Level: Swordsage 1 (plus homebrew classes that get Shadow Hand of course)
Prerequisite: Two Shadow Hand Maneuvers.
Initiation Action: 1 Swift Action
Range: Personal
Target: Self
Duration: Stance
You preserve a fragment of your most core desires and allegiances deep in your subconscious, watching your every conscious action with suspicion, ever seeking for any actions that go against your true self.

If a you are affected by an enchantment while in this stance fails your saving throw then at a certain later time you attempt the saving throw again provided you are still in this stance at that time. There are two different cases in which this second roll is made, use whichever happens first. The first case is simply 1 round after you initially failed your saving throw. The second is immediately before the effects of the specific enchantment instance in question would cause you (directly, or via attempting to carry out some other desire or order imposed by the specific enchantment instance) to exit this stance. Also, the maneuver doesn't leave you still mind-whammied for a round.

You only get one extra chance to succeed against any specific instance of any effect. If it fails as well, the spell’s effects occur normally.




Should this be Diamond Mind instead? As well?
Should it be a higher level?
Should it have a pre-requisite number of maneuvers, even if it remains 1st level?

[bhu]

For Rogues this is a 10th Level Ability.  I'm not sure I'd hand it out at Level 1.

[Draco Dei]

For Rogues this is a 10th Level Ability.  I'm not sure I'd hand it out at Level 1.

Yeah, I, of course, thought of that, and you may be completely right! What happened was that I then compared this to Moment of Perfect Mind which can work against things with shorter durations or, say, the Inflict X Wounds line that aren't even [Mind Effecting] despite being will saves... And stances are supposed to be BETTER than Counters (or Strikes, or Boosts, or...) and have a higher opportunity cost both in selection and use. Granted this DOES let you not Expend a maneuver on a save you turn out to roll high enough on you didn't NEED the maneuver, and can technically go off more than once in an encounter without the need to spend actions(or wait for re-Granting in the case of a Crusader using a feat to buy MoPM cross-class) to get the ability back. But still, it FEELS weak enough to be on-par with Moment of Perfect Mind regarding the level you can access it...

So, I went ahead and made it 1st level to start with... Maybe 3rd or something, probably not 5th (which is what it would need to be to come online at 9th which is only one level earlier than a rogue gets it).

So... after considering the arguments on both sides of the question, what level do people (including you my good friend Bhu) think it should be?

EDIT: Of course, Moment of Perfect Mind also requires skill points...

[Draco Dei]

Reread this, had a wild idea. Going to give it a pre-requisite of two Shadow Hand maneuvers. Makes it less dippable, especially via feats.

For all I know right now, this might be completely the wrong solution, but I've always been one for throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks.

[bhu]

Lemme look at the other stances.

[Draco Dei]

Somewhat dubious middle-of-the-night inspiration: Limit effect to stuff with caster/manifester/etc levels no more than IL so-as to at least make it less dipable/feat-ible.

[bhu]

IL?  (Sorry I worked a 60 hour week, I'm fried right now).

[linklord231]

IL?  (Sorry I worked a 60 hour week, I'm fried right now).

Initiator Level, I expect.

[bhu]

IL?  (Sorry I worked a 60 hour week, I'm fried right now).

Initiator Level, I expect.

Maybe a little more fried than I thought, lol...