Author Topic: Witty title that draws you in so I can request character assistance  (Read 9127 times)

Offline Piper

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Hello everyone, I like to think that I'm pretty good at optimization and character building, but I found myself in a bit of a risky situation and thought that the experts here could really help me out.

I'm starting a new game soon, and I'm a little worried, because the DM seems to be implying that he's going to try to kill us off. He hasn't directly SAID anything, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, but I really need a character that can survive ANYTHING. Just so I don't actually give off the wrong message: THIS IS NOT A "GET REVENGE/MAKE DM CRY/BREAK THE GAME" thread. I just need to be able to potentially survive a hostile DM to the best of my ability. Additionally, I do not know how long this group will last, so trading high-level capabilities for low-level ones is encouraged. LEvel 1 is the most important level for this request

Here are notes on the game:
32-point Buy
Books allowed: Core, Complete (No psionics) I can ask to have something allowed, but I have no idea if it will be or not.
Have to be a normal human
Weapon Group Feats (I'll provide a link if someone doesn't know these)
Action points
I have the ability to cast Create Water at will. (Caster level = character level)
TONS of other homebrew stuff, but not likely to matter

The other players are a healing-focused Favored Soul, a blasty sorcerer and we might have a third player, but I do not know what he is playing, if he is playing.

So, looking at the team, I decided to make a melee character. After thinking it over a bit, I decided either a barbarian (tons of STR, power attack, eventually leap attack, etc...) or a Duskblade (with knowledge devotion, True Strike+Power attack = win), but if you believe a third class could do the job better, I am more than open to suggestions.

AGain, the goals of this character are:
Able to survive encounters that are well over the party's abilities
Is not inheirently game-breaking (so I can turn it off if he is NOT trying to kill us)

I will be DELIGHTED to answer any and all questions about this, and would really appreciate some advice. Thank you for reading.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 03:08:16 PM by Piper »

Offline Caylin

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Re: Witty title that draws you in so I can request character assistance
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2012, 03:05:54 PM »
Low lvl survivability as a melee char pretty much screams crusader. Is Tob allowed? Possibly use mineral warrior template if allowed.

Offline Piper

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Re: Witty title that draws you in so I can request character assistance
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2012, 03:07:51 PM »
I tried, but he (DM) is vehemently against Tome of Battle  :(

And thank you for reminding me, we all have to be pure humans. I'll update the OP.

Thanks for the suggestions though!!!

Offline Cagemarrow

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Re: Witty title that draws you in so I can request character assistance
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2012, 04:01:05 PM »
Anyway to make a Cold theme'd Gish Tank? You could flavor it that you're using the create water ability to generate the ice you use in your attacks.

Duskblade? Druid? With energy substitution cold if necessary?

I very much want to suggest a Water Bender, from Avatar the Last Airbender show, type build but with tome of battle out of the question I'm having a tough time actually thinking of a way to do it.

Offline Gavinfoxx

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Re: Witty title that draws you in so I can request character assistance
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2012, 05:31:52 PM »
I would get as close to this as humanly possible:

Wild Shape, Mystic, Arcane Hunter, Skilled City Dweller (Ride for Tumble), Trap Expert, Spiritual Connection, Shooting Star, Sword of the Arcane Order, Wild Cohort, Ranger.

Now, some of those options might be mutually exclusive, so make a conscientious choice between the various options.

And read these two handbooks:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4621
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1543.0
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Offline X-Codes

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Re: Witty title that draws you in so I can request character assistance
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2012, 06:18:11 PM »
[Relatively useful advice along a different line of thought than the above responses.]

To be blunt, if the DM actually wants to kill you, you're going to die.  I mean, he can just do the whole "rocks fall" thing, and that's it.

This is an idea I had last night, but I'm not sure your DM would strictly allow it:

(Ex-)Barbarian 2/(Ex-)Monk 2/Sorcerer 1/Full BAB 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Swiftblade 9

Variants: Cobra Strike Monk (UA), Invisible Fist is optional (EoE, I wouldn't use it here)
Hunter Barbarian (UA, Lose Rage for Favored Enemy and Ranger Combat Style -- technically ranged, but try and get TWF anyway)
Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian (CC, lose Fast Movement for Pounce -- you'll be PLENTY fast later)
Wolf Totem Barbarian (UA, lose Uncanny Dodge for Improved Trip)
Since you don't have rage, it doesn't matter whether you're an Ex-Barbarian or an Ex-Monk.  Maybe try to get your DM to just waive this altogether since there's really no drawback to being an Ex-Either.

Ability Scores:
Strength- 15
Dex- 15
Con- 16
Int- 8
Wis- 8
Cha- 14

Notable Feats: Weapon Group Proficiencies for Monk Weapons, Flails and Chains, Spears and Lances, and Exotic Weapons (gets you the Spiked Chain, Javelin, and lots of Monk stuff)
Defensive Throw (trip enemies that attack you)
Elusive Target (negate Power Attack, so your low AC isn't an issue)
Temerad Mastery - Not actually a feat, look it up in Dragon 309.  It lets you have two Dodge targets instead of one, and is a free bonus for having 15 Dex and a lot of feats you're getting for free.

Other suggestions can be made as necessary by other posters.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 08:05:04 PM by X-Codes »

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Witty title that draws you in so I can request character assistance
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2012, 07:56:04 PM »
I think you should be a shadowcraft mage.  Shadow miracles help you survive everything.

/troll


In all seriousness, be a dragonborn warforged with adamantine plating and a huge Con.  Start as a Dragonfire Adept with a tower shield, then go into Stoneblessed and Deepwarden and Fist of the Forest.  You won't be brokenly effective so the DM won't be pissed off, except at how hard you are to kill.
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Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Witty title that draws you in so I can request character assistance
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2012, 08:12:22 PM »
You'll want a way to gain Mettle, since nullifying bad effects on a save is a very good thing.  Hexblade 3 is the earliest you'll get that, but it might not suit your fancy.  The next option is Pious Templar, which can be taken earliest at 6th level.  There's also the Tabard of Valor, but that item only grants mettle when you're at half or less hit points.

Alternately, see if you can get a Ring of Mettle, exactly like a Ring of Evasion.

Offline Piper

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Re: Witty title that draws you in so I can request character assistance
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2012, 10:07:18 PM »
Yay! So many replies! I'll take these one-by-one

@Jackingthegreen: Agreed, Mettle is win. Not sure if I'm going to be able to get it, but if the opportunity arises...

@sirpercival: I would honestly do either of those, except that DM explicitly called out SM when saying that the Races of books were banned. As for the second, he also hates Dragon Magic and Warlocks, so he wouldn't go for the Adept. Still, I'm going to find a place for that build in some other game, I really like it.

@X-codes: About your first point... ...yeahhhhhhh, I know. If he's that kind of DM, I'm not going to be in his game, plain and simple, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. If he wants to throw overpowered monsters at us, I want to be ready. If he just wants to make us die, I'm out. As far as your build, I'm taking a look at it. I'll run the numbers and see how it compares to either of my two choices. Thanks for all the work!

@Gavinfoxx: Looking at those links. I'm suprised that I never heard of SotAO before, despite me claiming to have a Joe Chaos level of knowledge about this game. ^^; Thanks!

@Cagemarrow: That is some really awesome flavor! The DM told me that I should try to be a waterbender too! XD It went like this:
DM: You should try to be a bender from Avatar
Me: Can I use Tome of Battle?
DM: No
Me: oh...


All things considered, I'm leaning towards the Duskblade. I'm looking over Dictum's Handbook (which is AWESOME), but if anyone else has something to contribute, I'd really appreciate it. Thank you all! My first help request was a huge success.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Witty title that draws you in so I can request character assistance
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2012, 11:02:18 PM »
Giving the benefit of the doubt is all well and good, but I wouldn't touch this game with a 10 foot pole.  It's one thing to say you're going to send overpowered monsters against the party and then allow builds that are equipped to give them a run for their money, and quite another to nerf everything that could prevent your minions from picking off the party members one by one.

This sounds like a DM who's pulling rule 0 to be Alec Baldwin.  Stay away.

EDIT: On the off chance that you don't want to take my admittedly excellent advice, I AM working on another build for you.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 11:16:21 PM by sirpercival »
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Witty title that draws you in so I can request character assistance
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2012, 11:27:24 PM »
OK, here it is.  This build gets much better when Incarnum is added, so if it is then let me know and I'll update it.  Hopefully  you can get Mystic Ranger and City Brawler Barbarian allowed.

Lion-totem City Brawler Barbarian 1/Rogue 1/Mystic Wildshape Ranger 5/Daggerspell Shaper 10/Nature's Warrior 1

Feats: WF (Dagger), TWF [bonus], IUS [bonus], Improved Grapple, Natural Spell, Savage Grapple

Wildshape into a Polar Bear, cast Animal Growth on self, charge/pounce, grapple, do sneak attack damage.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 11:29:25 PM by sirpercival »
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Offline X-Codes

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Re: Witty title that draws you in so I can request character assistance
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2012, 11:29:51 PM »
Thing about my build is that it's not about the numbers, really, it's about a character strategy.  The 50% miss chance from Swiftblade stops a lot of damage up front, Elusive Target and Temerad Mastery negate Power Attack bonus damage from as many as 2 big, brute critters, and with various spells you should be able to manage Crit Immunity and sizable DR, which will cut into the base damage most critters deal and prevent an unlucky 20 from affecting you.

Beyond that, you've got Improved Trip and fantastic personal-only Strength buffs in the Bite of the Were[X] line, nevermind all the free trips you can get (if you provoke an AoO and they miss, you get a free trip, if they're your dodge target and miss, you get an AoO that can be used for a trip).  If you pick up Power Attack somewhere along the way, which you should, then you can Wraithstrike + Power Attack on a Charge and deal some brutal damage with Pounce.  You'll probably even be able to spare a spell slot or two to pick up some No-Save-Just-Lose spells.

Offline Rebel7284

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Re: Witty title that draws you in so I can request character assistance
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2012, 11:33:32 PM »
OK, here it is.  This build gets much better when Incarnum is added, so if it is then let me know and I'll update it.  Hopefully  you can get Mystic Ranger and City Brawler Barbarian allowed.

Lion-totem City Brawler Barbarian 1/Rogue 1/Mystic Wildshape Ranger 5/Daggerspell Shaper 10/Nature's Warrior 1

Feats: WF (Dagger), TWF [bonus], IUS [bonus], Improved Grapple, Natural Spell, Savage Grapple

Wildshape into a Polar Bear, cast Animal Growth on self, charge/pounce, grapple, do sneak attack damage.

Last I checked, Wildshape does not change your type (unlike polymorph and such.)

Offline KellKheraptis

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Re: Witty title that draws you in so I can request character assistance
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2012, 11:43:21 PM »
I saw nothing forbidding Wizards, so my advice is a Conjurer 5/Mindbender 1/MotAO 7/Iot7V 7.  Low level survivability via immediate action teleportation, high level invincibility if you need it.  Swap MotAO for Incantatrix if it's allowed, for full time god mode.

Offline Shiki

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Re: Witty title that draws you in so I can request character assistance
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2012, 10:22:27 AM »
When in doubts, Druid.

Offline Halinn

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Re: Witty title that draws you in so I can request character assistance
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2012, 02:41:21 PM »
When in doubts, Druid.
Or DMM cleric, though animal companion offers more at the lower levels.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Witty title that draws you in so I can request character assistance
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2012, 02:48:51 PM »
When in doubts, Druid.
Druid. druid. druid. Let the animal companion be the "melee character", while you stay back using Produce Flame, or whatever. At level 1, with a punishing DM, melee guy = dead. Later on, when you get Wild Shape, you can actually be the melee guy. Till then, play it safe and survive.

I'd suggest something like Forest Gnome Druid, with a riding dog. You have a decent Con, can use your dog for a mount, and if things go horribly wrong, you can hide really well...
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Offline Rebel7284

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Re: Witty title that draws you in so I can request character assistance
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2012, 07:03:26 PM »
When in doubts, Druid.
Or DMM cleric, though animal companion offers more at the lower levels.

Yeah, DMM clerics really take off at level 5/6, while druids are amazing from level 1.

Offline muktidata

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Re: Witty title that draws you in so I can request character assistance
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2012, 02:57:12 PM »
Well, if your DM banned ToB, we can assume he's an idiot. Moving from there a tripping/power attacking reach build should be all you need to protect yourself and party if you want to play a specifically melee build.

DMM clerics are really strong, but less-so if you don't have access to some of the things you listed. I'd go with it, though.

Human
Cloistered Cleric 1
Stats - I never use PB and you're MAD as can be.
Domains:
Undeath
Planning

Feats:
Knowledge Devotion (Cloistered Cleric)
Extra Turning (Undeath)
Extend Spell (Planning)
Persistant Spell (Human)
DMM: Persistant Spell (1)

If flaws allowed (Unearthed Arcana):
Combat Expertise
Improved Trip

Early spells to persist:
1 Enlarge Person (bonus reach, bonuses to tripping)
2 Lore of the Gods

This puts you on a very mid-late power-build but if you just hold your ground and keep people off of your sorcerer, you can manage early as well. You'll take up a 10x10 while large and have a 15 foot reach when using your Longspear at level 1... all day.

Later go into Church Inquisitor, then one level of Prestige Paladin (take Battle Blessing feat from Complete Champion), and a level of Contemplative when available. Use Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Divine Power, Righteous Might, and other spells to make yourself a killing machine.
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