Rethinking Alignment

[Arturick]

I propose a rethinking of alignment so as to reduce confusion and "alignment/radar Paladins is/are BS!" arguments.

Neutrality

We are the ninety-nine percent! - Slogan of "Occupy Wall Street"

A Holy Smite spell can render an evil creature blind, but it is resisted with a Will save rather than a Fortitude save.  The spell, you see, does not affect the eyes.  Holy Smite makes an evil creature understand the perspective of "good" creatures for a few moments, and the experience is physically agonizing.  In extreme cases, it causes hysterical blindness.

A creature that is Good or Evil is an extremist, a wild-eyed prophet, an unreasoning bigot, and/or a selfless saint.  In short, most of us wouldn't like them, or at least find it difficult to relate to them.  A Blackguard would creep us out, and a martyr would make us self-conscious.  We would not, however, be unable to comprehend either.  We are fairly comfortable with, and aware of, our darker impulses.  We often feel that a full denial of our baser nature would be unrealistic or "inauthentic."  On the other hand, we try to follow our nobler ideals.  However, we expect to fall short of our loftiest ambitions.

We are neutral.

That cold feeling in the pit of your stomach is the realization that you were probably full of crap during the million times you identified yourself as "Chaotic Good."

If your character is not barking mad by the standards of our modern, or possibly "post-modern," society, then you should just stamp a big N on that character sheet.  Otherwise, they are simply not fanatical enough to leak their alignment like some sort of radiation, detectable by magic and Paladins.

Good

Forgive them...  they know not what they do...  Jesus of Nazareth, asking a pardon for the people who just tortured him mercilessly and nailed him to a post to die.

You are fanatically dedicated to righteousness, and come in one of two flavors:

"Peaceful Good" - Your selflessness knows no bounds.  You have, on occasion, passed out and awoke surrounded by your "flock," laughing softly as you realize that you've slept little and completely forgotten to eat for the last few days.  You've just been so busy tending to the needs of others.  If someone were to try and harm your flock, you'd shield them as best you could and try to evacuate them while giving no thought to your own defense.  Even if you could fight, you couldn't bear to be the cause of pain and suffering in even the darkest villain.  Perhaps your sacrifice could be the shining moment of nobility that changes his heart.

"Violent Good" - You have looked into your soul and seen impurity.  It terrifies you.  Knowing the horrors that lurk in your own soul, you know the urgency with which Evil must be eradicated from the world.  Don't bother investing in a retirement property, because you are going to die fighting whatever force of darkness you can't overcome.  It's just as well, though, for the knowledge of your own inner darkness means that your death will, at least, prevent your fall from grace.

Evil

Let your fangs and ambitions be bared... - Scar, The Lion King

You are committed to the darkness, and, like Good people, tend to fall into two categories:

"Personal Evil" - You are utterly lacking in any sort of empathy.  You are the only person that matters in the world, and getting what you want is the only important thing.  You might consider yourself a normal and productive member of society, but you seem destined to cause needless suffering by virtue of just not caring.

"Evil For a Cause" - You are a true believer in the cause of some evil deity or organization.  You want to purify the world with fire, or spread strength through pain, or some other twisted goal.  You may not even know what your dark patron wants, but have tasted their power and are willing to follow any orders for such a strong master.

Lawful

Paying taxes is patriotic. - Vice President (then Senator) Joseph Biden

You are devoted to control.  Wherever you fall on the spectrum of Good vs. Evil, control is essential to the advancement of your goals.  Control can take the form of an omnipresent government with a labyrinthine code of laws, or a firm cultural/religious adherence to a set of principles (often represented by a religious text or political document).  Lawful societies are often extremely different from one another, and two nations or religions ostensible devoted to the same concept could vary radically as various "heresies" and "reinterpretations" are embraced in the search for the "true path" or "pure ideal."

Chaotic

9/11 was an inside job! - Typical person with more than one "pot leaf" themed accessory.

You've been cheated.  The game is rigged.  You will never be the beautiful and unique snowflake that you were clearly intended to be, because THEY are holding you back.  You know who THEY are.  The merchant that sold you that shirt charged you more than it cost to make.  Why?  Because he needs to keep you poor and powerless.  Yeah, there was a cheaper shirt available, but isn't your life bad enough without having to wear itchy and baggy clothes?!

Chaotic means never having to say you're responsible.  Every societal advancement has just created another obstacle to your "authentic" existence.  Governments, churches, and philosophy exist to brainwash the masses into thinking that you should NOT get what you want.  Technology exists to concentrate power into a handful of technocrats/nerds/mages/whatever.  They don't want you to know how it works.

Somehow, some way, you know we could all just smoke weed and screw all day.  You just have to convince the masses that it's possible.  You won't convince them with facts...  You won't convince them with magic...  You'll convince them with MUSIC!!!

Understanding the Bard

Can music save a young man's soul?  Yes. A Bard

The question is often asked, "Why are the world's best musicians necessarily Chaotic?"  They are not.  They are probably neutral and holed up somewhere practicing a lot, piling on levels of commoner or aristocrat or something.  Bards are Chaotic because they believe that music can, and should, change the world.  Narcotics also factor into the equation, because it doesn't have to make sense.  It just has to feel good, and long term effects can be worried about later.  The belief-based nature of bardic music is the reason that typically divine effects (like healing) can be channeled by an ostensibly arcane caster.  Bards get the ability to Modify Memory, because, you know, sometimes facts get in the way of how things SHOULD be.  You literally can build a city on rock & roll, although it is highly unlikely to meet any particularly stringent building regulations.

Because of the utter lack of regard for long term consequences, every Chaotic society is exactly the same stupid mess.  If you see a building over one story tall that's more than a year old, then a Lawful (or at least Neutral) person got involved.  Ditto for currency (math is Satan), roads (lead to slave markets), and agriculture (foods bred to encourage desirable traits probably give you cancer).  They typically turn to some kind of raiding, because you wouldn't have more than us if you weren't somehow cheating us.

[Maat Mons]

Bards are Chaotic

Bards are nonlawful. 

[TuggyNE]

Your take on Neutral and Good is excellent, your ideas about Evil seem reasonable, and your views on Law (or Order, as the case may be) are not without merit. But your interpretation of Chaotic seems entirely biased against it; essentially, you're saying that all Chaotic-aligned people are Chaotic Stupid and/or Chaotic Insane, and are less to be admired than Evil characters. Is that really your intention?

[Unbeliever]

I don't use alignment in my game.  In fact, I know no one who does b/c it's not a terribly helpful system. 

But, the OP's take seems to be summed up as follows:  "everything other than neutral is batshit insane." 

If that's the case, then why have alignments at all?  What use are they serving?  You're going to have to rejigger all the alignments in the system anyway, so what does this gain? 

If one were to use such a system, I think it's much more sensible to think of them as priorities.  Chaotics tend to prioritize personal freedoms over general welfare, and perhaps the individual over the group, depending on their perspective.  It's a question of needs of many v. needs of the few.  Or, something like that. 

But, a system where 80% of the options are nutjobs doesn't strike me as helpful (outside of, perhaps, Planescape ...).  You're going to have the same problem people have with Paladins, which the OP seems to want to avoid, just writ large -- now everyone with "Good" or "Chaotic" on their sheet is going to be expected to act like a saint or a conspiracy theorist respectively.

[Arturick]

If one were to use such a system, I think it's much more sensible to think of them as priorities.  Chaotics tend to prioritize personal freedoms over general welfare, and perhaps the individual over the group, depending on their perspective.  It's a question of needs of many v. needs of the few.  Or, something like that. 

But, a system where 80% of the options are nutjobs doesn't strike me as helpful (outside of, perhaps, Planescape ...).  You're going to have the same problem people have with Paladins, which the OP seems to want to avoid, just writ large -- now everyone with "Good" or "Chaotic" on their sheet is going to be expected to act like a saint or a conspiracy theorist respectively.

My whole concept is that, if I can practically SMELL your alignment coming off of you with just the training that goes into ONE level of a player class, then, yes, you are a nutjob from the perspective of more "reasonable" people.

A neutral person with leanings towards Chaotic is more likely to prioritize personal freedoms over the needs of a greater whole, but can see situations where the group must take a priority.  A Chaotic character can't COMPREHEND prioritizing the group over the individual.

Law/Chaos/Good/Evil are still concepts accessible to the Neutral majority as ideological goals/extremes, and Neutral people often try to be good or chaotic, for example, but only a rare few go so far in that direction as to leak alignment based energy.

A Lawful "Violent" Good Paladin is supposed to be difficult to work with, seeming impossibly rigid and unreasonable to Neutrals, but not entirely alien.  A Chaotic Evil character would find the Paladin's very existence both inexplicable and appalling.

[Arturick]

Your take on Neutral and Good is excellent, your ideas about Evil seem reasonable, and your views on Law (or Order, as the case may be) are not without merit. But your interpretation of Chaotic seems entirely biased against it; essentially, you're saying that all Chaotic-aligned people are Chaotic Stupid and/or Chaotic Insane, and are less to be admired than Evil characters. Is that really your intention?

A few points:

1. In my proposed system, almost nobody is actually Chaotic.

2.  The primary virtue of Chaos is freedom.  Now, if you're philosophically opposed to Law and order, what do you do with your freedom?

3.  Creation is a function of order, and thus Law.  Actually building or creating anything in a way that makes sense is therefore a sin against Chaos.

4.  I see people in my proposed system who have an Alignment Descriptor as being able to "suck it up and go along with the damn Neutrals" on occasion, but it's always unpleasant, feels like a betrayal of personal ideals, and will be actively argued against.

[10d10]

Your take on Neutral and Good is excellent, your ideas about Evil seem reasonable, and your views on Law (or Order, as the case may be) are not without merit. But your interpretation of Chaotic seems entirely biased against it; essentially, you're saying that all Chaotic-aligned people are Chaotic Stupid and/or Chaotic Insane, and are less to be admired than Evil characters. Is that really your intention?

A few points:

1. In my proposed system, almost nobody is actually Chaotic.

2.  The primary virtue of Chaos is freedom.  Now, if you're philosophically opposed to Law and order, what do you do with your freedom?

3.  Creation is a function of order, and thus Law.  Actually building or creating anything in a way that makes sense is therefore a sin against Chaos.

4.  I see people in my proposed system who have an Alignment Descriptor as being able to "suck it up and go along with the damn Neutrals" on occasion, but it's always unpleasant, feels like a betrayal of personal ideals, and will be actively argued against.

You're free to choose law or neutral in a situation (according to your own beliefs) instead of being chained to one or the other, but never going away from your Good (or evil) ethics.

At least that's my take on chaotic. Many people tend to see chaotic as "I'll do whatever the fuck I want" and maybe that's the image fixed to you, that's the impression I've got.

[Halinn]

Indeed. If you invariably choose the "chaotic" option when presented with a choice, that's ordered, so not chaotic at all. Chaotic is not being bound to make any one specific choice.

[ariasderros]

Your good / evil are decent, especially with the "sub-grouping". Though it seems so extreme that there is no further room for the truly Vile / Exalted. Try reading those books' sections about their alignment.

Your Lawful really needs the same kind of "sub-grouping". Not all lawful people are law-of-the-land types. Someone who rigorously practices feng-shui would be lawful about how things are laid out. Someone who panics when they aren't in a rut is lawful about their life. Monks (real ones) are lawful. Basically, anything that people would normally point to and say that a person has severe OCD about is a lawful trait. (I know that OCD is heavily misperceived, just using the perception already out there).

Your Chaotic. No. Just No. Read your first paragraph in the bard section. That is the closest you get to Chaotic.
Chaotic is Chaos Theory. Chaotic is Existentialism. Chaotic is Creation (just not sustainment).
Chaos may include Tyler Durden, but he is not the only option.
Chaos may include Hedonism, not always, and there can be chaos in deprivation.
Chaos is not guilt-free-no-consequences. It is "The-ends-justify-the-means" at times.

You seem to have Chaos confused for having Int 4, Wis 4, Cha 90.

From a PbP discussion thread.

For those who are interested, I will be CE. Don't take that the wrong way though. I do not use either part as an excuse for idiotic / random behavior. I have high Wisdom and Intelligence scores, which precludes the behavior that so many people use this alignment as excuses for.

EDIT: Also, you seem to think the Detect spells stronger than they are. "radar paladin" needs to scan an area for 3 rounds just to pin down that you're the evil one, and even then, if you are level one like you say, your aura is faint.
Not exactly "dripping with evil radiation" like you're presenting.