Metaphysical Spell Shaper

[Raven2049]

Metaphysical Spell Shaper (Book of Erotic Fantasy Pg 88)
Ya i know what book this is from... weird book if there ever was one, but there is a reason for the topic

Was reading one of the handbooks for Metamagic powering (props goes to everyone who writes those handbooks their great) and came across this PC, then i was looking at my character im playing currently and where i wanted to go with it and some items that i was looking at, and i was like "hmmm this is a good q"

so heres my question,

Im currently playing a cleric 8/Morninglord of Lathander 2 character going toward MM Persist (possibly DMM) and noticed the Metaphysical manipulation feature of the Spell Shaper that allows you to damage an ability score to power your MM feats.

I was looking also at the MIC and found this item: Orb of mental renewal (MIC 167) and was wondering if that could be used WITHOUT the DC 20 caster level check that is listed in the Book of Erotic Fantasy for the spell save if attempting to heal the ability damage with the lesser restoration spell that is used in this item. (the book specifically examples that spell strangely)

Another question is, and i think i know what the answer is going to be but im going to ask anyways, can DMM and the Metaphysical Manipulation abilities stack?

EX:
Persist spell *any 3rd lvl spell*
lvl 3 cleric spell + 6 lvl advancement for persist or 6 points of ability damage or 6 turning checks

- or -

3 points ability damage and 3 turning checks.

My guess is that its going to be a "DM decision" type of thing but i wanted to hear your guys' opinions

Also, i know if you dont use DMM to power your MM feats, you can effectively only Persist a lvl 3 spell, but does DMM or Metaphysical Manipulation get around that?

Please let me know if any of my thinking is wrong in this question, and if you have any other insight that could point me in the right directions

[Raven2049]

think i posted this in the wrong place, if it is, please move it to the appropriate place. thanks!

[widow]

Divine metamagic is a free action and the spell shaper ability does not have a listed action type, but increases casting time.  You may perform one or more free actions while performing a normal action, so they will both work short of DM intervention.

Both abilities allow you to cast spells of a level higher than you can currently cast.  Spell shaper does still require you to have the necessary casting stat, but note DMM does not increase caster level.  So for instance if you added extend with spell shaper to a level 3 spell and applied DMM persistent, you would need a casting stat of 14 ( 10 + spell level + 1 for extend).

For the Orb of mental renewal or the Rod of physcial restoration (works the same for physical ability scores, same book), you would not need to make the caster level check.  Character's casting a spell require the caster level check, activating an item that does not cast a spell and is not spell completion would not.

With all that said, I am not sure you really need DMM if spell shaper is available.  One you said you are working towards DMM so I persume you do not already have it.  Even with everything in place, you still have 2 more levels to level 12 for your next feat.  Assuming you have extend and persistent spell, you already maybe able to move directly into spell shaper.  Also at that point you will gain access to the heal spell which will remove all ability score damage.  Your caster level check will be 14 at that point + you should at least have a bead of karma from the DMG for a +4 caster level for 10 minutes a day.  So, activate bead of karma, cast all your buffs putting damage from each spell on a different ability score (not Wis though), and then cast Heal with a caster level of 18.  You only have to worry about a 1 on the roll and only for one level.  Get an orange Ioun stone or a spell that boosts you caster level and that is not a problem.  Buy a second bead of karma to repeat the process if you fear dispel or disjunction.  If you go epic, using your turning for the Spell Siphoning feat from the Defenders of the Faith web enhancement.

[Raven2049]

thanks for the help! thats what i was thinking but i just wanted to make sure.

whats this spell siphoning feat you mentioned? im not familliar with it.

well i was planning on getting the Dmm feat at 15 and the persistant with the bonus metamagic from the spell shaper PC (would be lvl 14 in my progression) because i had my eye on another feat (mizer with magic) for the lvl 12 feat to get me qualified for MpSS.

this was the progression i was going to do: cleric 8 > Init of Lath 4 > MpSS 3 > xxxx

which would let me take mizer with magic at 12, take persistant at 14, then DMM at 15.

[widow]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20031115a

Again it is an epic feat, but you make a turning check to use a turn undead use as a spell.  So with a good roll or proper build, every turn undead use is a Miracle spell casting without a slot use.  Mix with spell shaper; a heal spell; and a dozen buff spells and turn checks to end up with alot of magical spell bling.  No need for DMM with spell shaper, but this feat still gives you a use for turn undead.  Greater Visage of the Deity alone adds +18 to your stats, that should add some more ability points to burn until the heal goes off.