Caster Level Calculations

[sirpercival]

OK, so I've read the "Caster Level Loops and You" handbook, and I find the notation and formatting extremely confusing, so I just need some help checking math here.

First, a disclaimer: everything in the build has been DM-approved as written.  (Yes, I know we're well into TO territory -- this is for AyeGill's TO game.)  This is not a forum to discuss whether the interpretations I'm going with are correct.  This is simply to help me figure out complicated maths.

Now, on to the setup.

Build: Symbiotic Changeling Wizard 5/Knight of the Weave 1/Ultimate Magus 7/Shadowcraft Mage 3
Symbiote: Wood Element (+5 LA) Spellwarped (+3 LA) Petal (+2 LA) Trickster Spellthief 5/Binder 1

ACFs: Dual Specialization from Changeling Wizard racial sub level; School Mastery: Illusion (lose Familiar) [dragon 357]

Relevant Feats: Theurgic Specialist, Arcane Thesis (Silent Image), Practiced Spellcaster (Spellthief), Master Spellthief
Relevant Items/Spells: Robe of Arcane Might (Transmutation), Ring of Arcane Might, 3 magic tattoos of +1 CL


CL Calculations!

Wizard: 15 levels + 3 UM + 3 tattoo + 1 ring + 5 master spellthief = 27
KotW: 5 levels + 27 wizard + 3 UM + 3 tattoo + 1 ring + 5 master spellthief = 44
Spellthief: 5 levels + 4 practiced spellcaster + 3 UM + 3 tattoo + 1 ring + ?? = ??

Questions!

• Do I add both Wiz and KotW CLs to the Spellthief CL?
• What's the final CL for transmutation and illusion spells (each of which gets boosted +1, from Robe and Illusion Mastery), taking into account Theurgic Specialist?
• Do I add +6 for Silent Image (or more) from propagating Arcane Thesis across all 3 classes, or is it only +2 from applying it on top of everything else?

[sirpercival]

Bump.  No one?

[DavidWL]

While very subject to interpretation, here is my 2 cents:

Knight of the weave:   Your caster level for your knight spells is equal to your knight class levels plus any other arcane "Caster Levels" you may have

Master Spellthief:  Your spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels stack when determining your caster level for "all arcane spells"

I would not add your spell thief levels to the wizard ... I think you calculate the wizard first, then add to spellthief, and then use that for all.

Wizard = 15 levels + 3 UM + 3 tattoo + 1 ring = 22

KotW: 5 levels + 22 wizard (I wouldn't count the following twice: + 3 UM + 3 tattoo + 1 ring) +5 master spellthief (to be sane ... raw, it would be an infinite loop) = 32

Spellthief = 5 + 4 + (I wouldn't count the following: 3 + 3 + 1 ) + 22 + 32 = 63 ... and you use this for "all arcane spells"

Do I add both Wiz and KotW CLs to the Spellthief CL?

.  I'd say yes.  "arcane spellcaster levels"  Note, that one could argue this was supposed to be only class levels, but I think caster levels makes more sense.

What's the final CL for transmutation and illusion spells (each of which gets boosted +1, from Robe and Illusion Mastery), taking into account Theurgic Specialist?

First I'd take the +1s into account, then:

I'd triple your CL ... (Wiz CL) + (KotW CL) + (spellthief CL) = Spelltheif CL * 3

    Do I add +6 for Silent Image (or more) from propagating Arcane Thesis across all 3 classes, or is it only +2 from applying it on top of everything else?

Frankly, it's broken enough, so I wouldn't.  But once again, this is a mix of RAW and David's interpretation of the semblance of sanity.

Best,
David

[sirpercival]

OK, I think I agree with some of your stuff but not all.

Maybe a different way to break it down will help.

CL boosts that apply to arcane spells.
These do not apply to CLASS CL's, which is the distinction in the CL Loops and You handbook, and so are not propagated:

+3 tattoos
+1 ring
+3 UM
+5 master spellthief (when not applied to Spellthief casting)

Wizard CL

15 levels = CL 15
When casting anything but trans or illus, the CL is 27.

Knight of the Weave CL

5 levels + 15 wizard = CL 20
When casting anything but trans or illus, the CL is 32.

Spellthief CL

5 levels + 15 wizard + 20 kotw = CL 40
When casting anything but trans or illus, the CL is 47.

Transmutation/Illusion CL

40 spellthief + 15 wizard + 20 kotw + 3 UM + 3 tattoo + 1 ring + 1 robe/mastery = 83
For Silent Image, add +2 + some number from Earth Spell.


And any other boosts I use (items, Suffer the Flesh, etc.) go on top of that.  How does that sound?