Pathfinder Sorcerer

[Solo]

I have made a Pathfinder sorcerer. Please tell me if I have made any errors on the sheet.

Incidentally, I was pleased to find that I could get 3 extra spells per level over a 3.5e sorcerer.

[StreamOfTheSky]

What sheet?  And I thought you made a thread about making a PF sorcerer a month or two ago already.

[Solo]

I have included a link to the sheet now.

A few months ago, I created an exploratory committee to consider my options for playing a full spellcaster in Pathfinder. Today I have decided to run for the position of Sorcerer.

[SorO_Lost]

PF only?

[Solo]

Let us assume so!

[StreamOfTheSky]

I see you've chosen not to divulge your alignment.  Expect the opponent's campaign to launch attack ads asking what it is you have to hide.

Hmm...you did human for the bonus spells known, so you pass "building a pathfinder sorcerer 101"...

The stats are interesting.  Were they rolled?  Or did you just want an oddly balanced stat array?  If you had a say in the matter, starting cha would have been 20, 22 by level 8, 24 after item....

What is giving +1 initiative?  I see the dex and feat, but not sure where the other 1 is from.  That 500 gp iuon stone?

Do you get traits for this game, or no?

What sources are allowed?  If UM is, have you seen the Eldritch Heritage feat line?

Any particular reason you got a dust mephit?

Have you looked into the new PF metamagic feats?  Many of them are very, very good, and I find metamagic works quite well with a spont. caster.

Spells:
0: I'd suggest Ghost Sound.
1: God Spellcraft is often enough so that you shouldn't need Identify in PF.  Obscuring Mist is no better from you than it is from a CL 1 wand, I'd drop it.  Likewise featherfall is a cheap ring.  I suggest Color Spray and/or Ear-Piercing Scream, Anticipate Peril (it's like a cruddier Nerveskitter), and Grease.  How do you not have grease?!
2: Alter Self severely sucks now and isn't much better than enlarge/reduce person.  Create Pit and its later version can be interesting to consider; some claim since it's an extradimensional space teleporting out of it won't work.  Unnatural Lust is pretty weak but great fun at parties.  Mirror Image got super buffed in PF, and when combined with high AC and miss chance makes you virtually untouchable (or they close their eyes to swing blindly and effectively turn it into a level 2 10x duration displacement spell) and the rules have explicitly made cleave/great cleave, magic missile, and whirlwind attack all fail to destroy images.
3: All of your choices seem completely fine.  Communal Resist Energy is great value and may be worth learning instead of the single target level 2 version.  Stinking Cloud is excellent, of course.  Ray of Exhaustion is deliciously spammable.  Haste is very powerful in a party w/ few casters.
4: Well, you just started out here. But Ice Storm is very weak, IMO.  The damage is terrible, you mostly want it for the diff. terrain.  But compare it to Stone Call, a level 2 spell w/ no SR.  That reminds me...you should take Stone Call for a level 2 spell.  For your first level 4 spell, I suggest Black Tentacles, Greater Invisibility, Enervation, or Fear.

[Solo]

I see you've chosen not to divulge your alignment.  Expect the opponent's campaign to launch attack ads asking what it is you have to hide.

I maintain, as I always have, that the long form of my alignment certificate is only to be released for official government business only.

The stats are interesting.  Were they rolled?  Or did you just want an oddly balanced stat array?  If you had a say in the matter, starting cha would have been 20, 22 by level 8, 24 after item....

Rolled.

What is giving +1 initiative?  I see the dex and feat, but not sure where the other 1 is from.  That 500 gp iuon stone?

Yes.

Do you get traits for this game, or no?

That's an excellent question... assuming I do, what would you suggest?

What sources are allowed?  If UM is, have you seen the Eldritch Heritage feat line?

I don't know if UM is allowed, but I don't happen to have that book. Very unfortunate.

Any particular reason you got a dust mephit?

Wind Wall! Also, it doesn't set buildings on fire when it follows me indoors. I find that to be a plus.

Have you looked into the new PF metamagic feats?  Many of them are very, very good, and I find metamagic works quite well with a spont. caster.

So far, I am working with what I have, which is basically the PF SRD.

1: God Spellcraft is often enough so that you shouldn't need Identify in PF.  Obscuring Mist is no better from you than it is from a CL 1 wand, I'd drop it.  Likewise featherfall is a cheap ring.  I suggest Color Spray and/or Ear-Piercing Scream, Anticipate Peril (it's like a cruddier Nerveskitter), and Grease.  How do you not have grease?!

Identify comes with the bloodline, unfortunately. I'll make the other changes, though.

2: Alter Self severely sucks now and isn't much better than enlarge/reduce person.  Create Pit and its later version can be interesting to consider; some claim since it's an extradimensional space teleporting out of it won't work.  Unnatural Lust is pretty weak but great fun at parties.  Mirror Image got super buffed in PF, and when combined with high AC and miss chance makes you virtually untouchable (or they close their eyes to swing blindly and effectively turn it into a level 2 10x duration displacement spell) and the rules have explicitly made cleave/great cleave, magic missile, and whirlwind attack all fail to destroy images.

I... what... the hell is with that ruling? I shall definitely take Mirror Image, then.

4: Well, you just started out here. But Ice Storm is very weak, IMO.  The damage is terrible, you mostly want it for the diff. terrain.  But compare it to Stone Call, a level 2 spell w/ no SR.  That reminds me...you should take Stone Call for a level 2 spell.  For your first level 4 spell, I suggest Black Tentacles, Greater Invisibility, Enervation, or Fear.

Actually, I've been giving thought to Wall of Ice.

[StreamOfTheSky]

The official PRD actually has UM rules listed, along with UC, APG, and the Bestiaries.

The fan maintained version has even more stuff and has info accumulated together instead of divided up by book, making it far easier to read and navigate...usually.

What traits I can recommend depends upon what sources your DM will ultimately allow.  d20pfsrd has some obscure crap on there.  But basics are you get 2, they can't be from the same list, and unlike 3E traits, they're basically straight boons, no drawbacks.  At the very least, you could use them to pick +2 initiative, +2 cast defensively, and/or "pick 1 spell and reduce metamagic level adjustment on it by 1."  So if nothing else, pick 2 from those choices and I'll just give you the names.

For metamagic feats, Persistent Spell, Bouncing Spell, Selective Spell, Reach Spell, and Dazing Spell are all great, though some of them could work fine coming from a rod (though I'd say the same for Extend, which you picked).  Also, you are aware that Sorcs in PF can use Quicken Spell, right?

EDIT: As far as the idiotic Mirror Image rulings go, check out this FAQ entry.  And this one.  Both the direct opposite of how it worked in 3E.  Whirlwind Attack not working is just an extension of the moronic cleave FAQ stating that images cannot be targeted.

So yeah.  Add that info to the text of mirror image, which super buffed the images' AC and removed that pesky line about being able to pinpoint the actual caster once you hit him till he has his turn come up to re-shuffle (which consensus seems to agree is a rules-change-by-omission) and...fucking Pathfinder loves their fucking casters...

[Solo]

Ah, most excellent. I believe I shall select Dazing and Persistent spell.

[StreamOfTheSky]

They work well together if you can afford the +5 levels.   Or with one on a rod.  Consider using Dazing with Flaming Sphere, Aqueous Orb, or Ball Lightning for a reflex save or multiround daze effect you can keep around and move to new enemies as needed.  Especially w/ Ball Lightning, which'll let you daze up to 5 foes at a time at higher levels.

[Solo]

I was planning to use it on Magic Missile myself, at least at this level.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I would try to use Dazing Spell on reflex spells.  The reason is you already can get plenty of fort or will save-or-lose, and a spell w/o a save gains a will save to negate it.  Since reflex is a common weak save and many people dismiss it as the unimportant one, having a reflex save-or-lose to round out your arsenal is handy.

That said, I guess an auto hit level 4 spell that dazes up to 5 targets for 1 round if they fail a will daze isn't too shabby.

[deuxhero]

Something ate my post and I hate lots of stuff posted

Having read all the traits on the SRD the most common effects are various sources of class skills, +2 Initiative,, +1 to a save, +2 concentration, Arcane Thesis and 1 Initiative+small bonus, , +2 to will saves vs. Mind effecting, +2 to saves v fear, +1/+1 and +2 to skills. Obviously of the "common" traits your main picks should be the first 5 or 6 and skip the last. If you want Diplomacy (only skill a sorc would really want and doesn't alreddy have), the best is Cosmopolitan which gets you a second skill, though that is 3.5 Pazio material and it is used unchanged as a feat (and it is still worth useing sometimes) in the APG. Second best is Extremely Fashionable, which you can easily meet the requirements for (You alreddy have 150 GP in magic jewelry if you say your Headband of Charisma looks fancy and Prestidigitation and Mending are now at-will mean you are always presentable) though it isn't  from the "mainstream" PF books (CRB, APG, UM and UC and something else I feel I am forgetting). There are a few boosts to the saves of some (sub)schools of magic traits if you want them.

Unique traits of note for a Sorcerer include Havoc of the Society, which gives all blast spells a point of force damage, which bypasses immunities if you are abusing dazzling spell like you have suggested (Summoner is better at it as he can lesser rod his Wall of Fire to do it though).

You have 6095 gold. I'd invest 1000 in a pair of Wayfinders for your Ioun Stones so you can keep them in your pockets and don't encourage people to break your stuff by letting it float around you all squishy.

The last 5095 can be filled out in various ways. An Armored Kilt is armor you can wear and can hold the enchantments you want and printed twice (so the non-mainstream source thing is lessened). Various "patron" items from Gods and Magic can be used regardless of patron with "activate blindly" and have some unique effects and fall into the 1000-3000 price range. You could also be boring and get another rod or some metamagic gems.

As for future feats, Eldritch Heritage is actually useful for a sorc (pseudo dual blood without hideous spell hit!) though takes 2-5 feats and is generally something for a half-elf to put their limited choice of bonus feat to use, plus the biggest abuses are for people who aren't Sorcerers (Arcane is a familiar and 3 spells from the sorc/wizard list. Abysmal is Malconvoker's signature move for the level 15+ (Master) Summoners

[StreamOfTheSky]

I find the reiligion traits quite strong.  Lessons of Chaldira is a save reroll 1/day.  Strength of the Sun is +1 to all cha-based checks during daytime hours (which includes concentration checks).

For Eldritch Heritage... it's more useful for a melee class like Paladin, and has absolutely NO payoff till level 11 (because the stuff along the way sucks ass), but if you got Improved Eldritch Heritage at level 11 on the Marid Bloodline (requires EH [gives a worthless crap damage ray attack] and Skill Focus (Know Planes) to acquire), you get "Water's Fury," an unlimited use line attack that does d6/ 2 levels untyped damage that also blinds the victims for a sizeable duration, Reflex save negating half the damage and blindness.  I mean, you have spells, it's definitely better for like a Paladin.  But still, pretty sweet.

[Halinn]

For traits, I would consider the combination of Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage. That's a total of -2 metamagic adjustment to a 3rd level or lower spell.

[StreamOfTheSky]

And neither of them has a limiter of "to a minimum of +0" !  Good job, Paizo... 

It's debatable if reducing a spell to level 0 makes it infinite-cast, btw.  Some claim that's a special ability only spells labeled as cantrips/orisons get, others state that cantrips/orisons are defined as 0 level spells.

If it did work though, guess that'd give you a 1st level (or 2nd, if you could find 2 +0 meta feats that applied, but the only one I know of in PF is Nonlethal Spell) as an at will ability...

[Halinn]

And neither of them has a limiter of "to a minimum of +0" !  Good job, Paizo... 

It's debatable if reducing a spell to level 0 makes it infinite-cast, btw.  Some claim that's a special ability only spells labeled as cantrips/orisons get, others state that cantrips/orisons are defined as 0 level spells.

If it did work though, guess that'd give you a 1st level (or 2nd, if you could find 2 +0 meta feats that applied, but the only one I know of in PF is Nonlethal Spell) as an at will ability...

Ignoring abuse like that, it's still nice to put on some blasting spell of choice. A dazing fireball in a 4th level slot, for instance.

[deuxhero]

It's debatable if reducing a spell to level 0 makes it infinite-cast, btw.  Some claim that's a special ability only spells labeled as cantrips/orisons get, others state that cantrips/orisons are defined as 0 level spells.

Actually, on that subject, do adepts not get infinite castings of their 0th level spells?

[Fadier]

And neither of them has a limiter of "to a minimum of +0" !  Good job, Paizo... 

It's debatable if reducing a spell to level 0 makes it infinite-cast, btw.  Some claim that's a special ability only spells labeled as cantrips/orisons get, others state that cantrips/orisons are defined as 0 level spells.

If you look at the Witch and the Summoners description for Cantrips it says if you cast them in higher level slots (say through metamagic feats) the spell slot is expended normally.

This tells me that reducing the spells level to 0 does make it at-will. Atleast till Piazo clarifies retcons it.

My favourite spell for this is Ear Piercing Scream modified with either Heighten Spell (for casting a 2nd level spell in a 0th level slot) or Extend (for a 2 round daze cantrip). This is doable at level 1 even without traits, just be our favourite Human with Additional Traits and your pick of metamagic feat.

Other tasty spells are your standard Charm Person and Silent image.

If it did work though, guess that'd give you a 1st level (or 2nd, if you could find 2 +0 meta feats that applied, but the only one I know of in PF is Nonlethal Spell) as an at will ability...

Tenebrous Spell is another +0 metamagic feat but only for darkness/shadow descriptor spells or for illusion (shadow) subschool spells. But I have not found any good 2nd level spells for that.

It's debatable if reducing a spell to level 0 makes it infinite-cast, btw.  Some claim that's a special ability only spells labeled as cantrips/orisons get, others state that cantrips/orisons are defined as 0 level spells.

Actually, on that subject, do adepts not get infinite castings of their 0th level spells?

Looking at the Adept it is lasking any mention of Orisons so you could argue they do not.