They said what now? (Debatably) stupid things said by the writers.

[Prime32]

But the best thing about delay is the look on the DM’s face when he goes around the table asking for actions . . . and everyone except for you delays, waiting on your move. It’s your moment to set the tone for the battle, to take the definitive action that will carry your team to victory. You’re the star, and success rests on your action. Make it count!

So you shouldn't try to go first, but going first is the best thing ever?

[veekie]

Oh delaying has its role, especially for buff oriented groups. Its usually worthwhile to delay to the bard so he can start up the music, even if you're giving up flatfooted foes.

Its just hilarious how they try to make it sound heroic, rather than tactical.

[LordBlades]

Delaying so (some of) your team can go before you? Sure, you can set up some pretty awesome combos with that.

Delaying so that (some of) the monsters get to go before you? That's not usually a very good idea, unless you're fairly sure you can shrug off their attacks and/or you really can't think of anything useful to do right now (like a rogue in melee without Hips and a flanking buddy).

[veekie]

Not always. If the monsters are full attack based, and have no pounce, then delaying for them to go first is a perfectly good idea, since they move to single-attack one of you, and then you full attack them back. In contrast, if you go first and charge them, but fail to kill them, they get full attacks and you're gonna hurt.

[LordBlades]

Not always. If the monsters are full attack based, and have no pounce, then delaying for them to go first is a perfectly good idea, since they move to single-attack one of you, and then you full attack them back. In contrast, if you go first and charge them, but fail to kill them, they get full attacks and you're gonna hurt.

That depends on the situation IMO. If you're a full attack or martial strike based char, then of course, you're right. However, if you're not, allowing the monster to approach gains you nothing, and might actually inconvenience you if you're a fighter that has to move, like a charger or swift hunter.

[veekie]

Hence 'not always'.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yeah, that sidebar is mostly wrong, bu fighter types can benefit from delaying.  Both for the "don't get in the way of the god wizard's opening spell" application and the "let him move up so you can get the first full attack" (I prefer to ready to attack and then 5 ft step away triggered upon him ending his move, so he gets hurt, is denied the ability to hurt me, and if he doesn't using any remaining action to back off, ALSO suffers a full attack from me before he can act again; but thr principle's the same) Veekie mentioned can both be helpful in many situations.

Even as a caster, I can see delaying in certain instances, though more often I'd ready.  For example, a save or lose spell that gives a new chance to end each turn like Hold Person.  Cast that in the middle of someone's action, and rob them of that turn and get your next turn before he can act again.  And of course you want to delay using it until the party fighter is already in melee with the guy, to facilitate coup ge gracing.

Rogue....ONLY if the foe is immune to sneak attack is delaying till after they act ever justifiable, and even then, it's basically only because you're gimped for the encounter and nothing you do is lkely to matter much anyway, may as well stay back and not die, at least.

[RedWarlock]

Actually, that stuff about delay tactics is valid, but not for optimizers. You guys have very different expectations of damage-to-HP ratios and success capacity for attacks and saves. The average player would benefit from this.

I remember from DDM, those are exactly the tactics the high end guys (including myself) used in skirmish battles. Keep in mind that around when this was published, DDM was more active, and the designers (as far as I know) often did double duty on the minis game and the books.

[LordBlades]

Actually, that stuff about delay tactics is valid, but not for optimizers. You guys have very different expectations of damage-to-HP ratios and success capacity for attacks and saves. The average player would benefit from this.

I remember from DDM, those are exactly the tactics the high end guys (including myself) used in skirmish battles. Keep in mind that around when this was published, DDM was more active, and the designers (as far as I know) often did double duty on the minis game and the books.

Yeah, DMM was mainly about having enough fodder so you can move your important piece(s) as late as possible.

[veekie]

Rogue....ONLY if the foe is immune to sneak attack is delaying till after they act ever justifiable, and even then, it's basically only because you're gimped for the encounter and nothing you do is lkely to matter much anyway, may as well stay back and not die, at least.

Or if you got a buddy setting up for flank. Set it up right and you can botb 5ft step on your turn to put you RIGHT into flanked double full attacks.

[Endarire]

Want to grab as many foes in your AoE as practical?  Use an AoE with a bigger radius!  (That's using web instead of glitterdust with a big "As prudent" at the end.)