Author Topic: PracCharOp for Dragon Paladin Monk Caster  (Read 2067 times)

Offline Stam

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PracCharOp for Dragon Paladin Monk Caster
« on: May 01, 2012, 01:40:29 PM »
:plotting

I may shortly have the opportunity (or need) to replace one of my characters. I'd be bringing in an 11th-level PC with 49,500 GP (yes, that's below average) and most likely will have spare XP for crafting.

Setting is the Forgotten Realms.
Stats are 32-Point-Buy.

Race will be Human.

Important restriction: Only four classes or PrCs may be used over the course of the build.

(click to show/hide)

I am looking to build an armored paladin caster utilizing the Knight of the Weave PrC (Champions of Valor), followed by the Abjurant Champion PrC (Complete Mage). And while I've got a few decent ideas as to build and whatnot, this is essentially a Noncaster starting build which picks up casting partway along. Decent casting, with access to decent spells, but the main point still stands.

Having recently seen a higher-level group being battered around by one of the DMs under whom I'd be playing, I sort of want to ensure this is as strong as possible.

Moving along: Here's my proposed build. Take it apart or suggest alternatives as you will!
(click to show/hide)

Summary of build's strong points:
Cha of ~20 to AC and saves, even while wearing armor.
Swift-cast Shield spell providing +7 AC.
Reach weapon with free grapple.
Grapple check of at least +24
BAB of +9 @ ECL 11th.
Unarmed damage and possible enhanced healing, if cash available, for anyone who thinks getting in close is smart.
The best fast-tracked arcane casting option available which will add spell level known each time I level till 6th.

I've looked at going Monk2/Paladin4 instead, and there's little enough loss going that way, but I'm unsure of what real benefits that will provide over a little more unarmed smack.

Where am I going wrong, what could be improved, and how can I take this build (with a grapple mod that's already +12 before Str, BAB or other factors) to the next level AND stand a chance at keeping it competent in CastersRule territory? Spell suggestions for upwards mobility (other than Bite of the X line which I'm already all over as soon as they open up) would be nice too.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: PracCharOp for Dragon Paladin Monk Caster
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2012, 01:44:51 PM »
I suggest you don't grapple, since at your levels Freedom of Movement is likely.  However, if you really want to, may I refer you to my grappling handbook?

Knight of the Weave is a great PrC.  Monk is rarely worth it...

How does your DM feel about early entry?
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Offline Stam

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Re: PracCharOp for Dragon Paladin Monk Caster
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2012, 03:23:44 PM »
Yep, it's noted that grappling is usually a sub-par tactic without some pretty far-out optimization. I have SOME of what you have in your handbook already (Gauntlets of the Talon add not just +4 to that, but also let me grapple incorporeal) plus I'm grappling at range; anything Medium without FoM is going to be screwed. Other stuff noted, but I'm unsure how smart a move it is to dedicate limited spells to something you already note shouldn't be your sole focus.

(Hence the whole question posted here: how do I do this reasonably well enough to play a decent role in a party, yet have other options available at the same time?)

FoM has...thus far...not been widely encountered in the campaign. This isn't to say it isn't likely, but I'll still be able to squash noncasters and minions, as well as casters who the DM hasn't prepped as I Scried You So Screw You.

Monk rarely worth it: Yup. In this case, it's two useful free feats (Combat Reflexes to go with my reach weapon, and Imp Grapple as a freebie), skills and backup/close range weapon - plus Cha to all forms of AC. If I drop that to 2 levels, and Paladin up to 4, I get me some turn attempts which could be used to power...what?

Early Entry: Nope. No luck here.

Offline Garryl

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Re: PracCharOp for Dragon Paladin Monk Caster
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2012, 03:34:09 PM »
What exactly are you getting from the 3rd Monk level? Still Mind, +10' speed, am I missing anything else? The speed boost won't even work in armor, and your armor crystal says for AC bonus, not everything else.

Offline Stam

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Re: PracCharOp for Dragon Paladin Monk Caster
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2012, 03:49:05 PM »
Higher Monk level for boosted things (1d10 damage instead of 1d8, at minimal equip), really. Still Mind helps, but...good point. Seems I'd do better off with the Monk2/Pal4.

Edit: And yeah, you read the crystal right. I lose Flurry and Speed while wearing armor.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 03:52:37 PM by Stam »

Offline Stam

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Re: PracCharOp for Dragon Paladin Monk Caster
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2012, 10:41:02 AM »
Spell suggestions? What works well with the Limited List Gish?