Author Topic: Optimizing cleric that creates undead  (Read 3797 times)

Offline Jabberwocky12

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Optimizing cleric that creates undead
« on: May 01, 2012, 11:21:26 PM »
Hi guys,

I need help creating a cleric that creates undead. Right now I'm a level 5cleric/5malconvoker that died and is being re-born, but a little darker and death-related. I figured creating undead would be a better way to go but keeping the theme of what the cleric was when he was alive.

Books available: All of the completes and all of the monster manuals

So I have 10 levels to work with.
True Neutral Cleric of Boccob, Knowledge and Trickery Domains

I was using divine metamagic before with repeat spell for the feats.

Are the "create undead" spells worth it as a cleric? They seem nice but I figured why make "better" undead when I can make "more" undead instead. Would I be good keeping as a cleric or should I multiclass into something different?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm new to min/maxing so if there is something that I'm not telling that you need, let me know!

Thanks!

Offline linklord231

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Re: Optimizing cleric that creates undead
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2012, 02:36:06 AM »
Have you read K's Revised Necromancer Handbook?  There's a whole section in there about Cleric necromancers. 

As for Create Undead, it depends.  Animate Dead is the gold standard in undead creation, but Create (Greater) Undead kind of sucks in Core.  The things you make are waaaay underpowered by the time you can create them, with the exception of the Mohrg which you use to create Zombies for free.  Outside Core, there's some neat ones - check out the Collection of Necromantic Oddities for details. 

Do you have to still worship Boccob?  Because the Deathbound domain from Spell Compendium (I think) is fantastic for Cleric necromancers. 
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 02:37:45 AM by linklord231 »
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Offline Tenebrous Apostle

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Re: Optimizing cleric that creates undead
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2012, 07:10:28 PM »
Since you're a malconvoker you might want to bind an artaglith (ghostwalk) maurezhi (fiend folio) or kokrachon (BoVD) to do your animating for you if you can get the books across to your DM. About the create undead spell, the BoVD is paramount if you want to do anything usefull with it! You can create inteligent versions of zombies and skeletons (corpse and skeletal respectively) that also get to keep ALL their cool abilities. You might want to stack up a few holy arrows so u can give them to the newly created undead so it becomes easier to control. Try binding them to their palms while they're still corpses :tongue
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Offline Jabberwocky12

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Re: Optimizing cleric that creates undead
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2012, 11:43:19 PM »
So far most of this stuff is outside of the MMs and the "Completes" that are available. Is this not doable in a decent way without these books?>

Offline linklord231

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Re: Optimizing cleric that creates undead
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2012, 01:24:18 AM »
Most of the undead from those books just aren't worth making, with the exception of Skeletons and occasionally Zombies.  MM2-5 have some rather interesting ones though, and BoVD has the Bone Creature and Corpse Creature templates that can be used via Create Undead. 
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Offline Endarire

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Re: Optimizing cleric that creates undead
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2012, 05:33:04 AM »
If you're going Cleric, you're better off as a full Cleric.  Even a Cleric4/Crusader1/Ruby Knight Vindicator5 is better for Undead purposes.

Still, what can we work with here?

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Optimizing cleric that creates undead
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2012, 09:07:13 AM »
What power level are you aiming for? Depending on how strong the rest of the party is, you can do plenty well with some skeletons or zombies.

Sadly you can't get Corpsecrafter for the Str and HP bonuses, but you still have access to Desecrate. Make a portable alter to an evil deity and Desecrate it every time before animating a creature. This will give it a permanent +2 bonus on some rolls and +2 HP per HD.

Some types of monsters to look for when animating:

Monsters with many attacks and a good Str score:
These make good skeletons. Sadly, I don't think they keep pounce (it's a special attack and not a special quality), so if the original monster had it, it will lose some effectiveness. Also, their natural AC will likely drop.

Large winged fliers:
Turn one into a zombie if you want a flying mount. You don't even need anything good here. A 3 HD hippogriff will do nicely.

Hydras:
Because of the weird way hydras are set up, a hydra zombie still gets all of its attacks as well as a metric fuck ton of HP for being a zombie. They're slow, but depending on the situation, you can totally rip things in half with these.

Lots 'o humanoids:
Humanoids can wield weapons and wear armor (they're not proficient in armor, but several have 0 ACP). So, you give them all bows and leather armor (or MW studded leather if you have the money) and have a bunch of them shoot at stuff. Although, by 10th level, this might not be worth your time and effort unless you can somehow bolster the attacks. I supposed if you come across a very large supply of poison, you could poison hundreds of arrows and know that once enough arrows get flying around, some will hit regardless of AC and saves will fail once enough have to be made (go natural 20/natural 1 rule on attacks and saves!).

My only complaint about the last one is it could grind the game to a halt.


Note, that the biggest thing you're going for here is extra actions. You'll have to use your judgment on when to and when not to use them.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Optimizing cleric that creates undead
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2012, 09:15:18 AM »
Any way to get those skeletons teamwork benefits??
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Optimizing cleric that creates undead
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2012, 10:35:20 AM »
Any way to get those skeletons teamwork benefits??
You talking about the PHB2 rules? I haven't looked at them in a long time, but don't they require skill ranks to use, or something? Still, I don't think it will help the OP since it's not on his allowed list.

I suppose there's Aid Another. You can get into nano-machines type stuff. Animate lots of rats, or something.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Optimizing cleric that creates undead
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2012, 10:42:02 AM »
Any way to get those skeletons teamwork benefits??
You talking about the PHB2 rules? I haven't looked at them in a long time, but don't they require skill ranks to use, or something? Still, I don't think it will help the OP since it's not on his allowed list.

I suppose there's Aid Another. You can get into nano-machines type stuff. Animate lots of rats, or something.

Some of them require skill ranks or feats, that's why I was asking.  Is there any way to get skill ranks onto mindless undead?  Either way there are some which don't have any requirements at all.

Think about a bunch of skeleton archers with Missile Volley.  Nice...
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Offline Tenebrous Apostle

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Re: Optimizing cleric that creates undead
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2012, 07:34:44 PM »
So far most of this stuff is outside of the MMs and the "Completes" that are available. Is this not doable in a decent way without these books?>

No BoVD, No libris Mortis, no Fiend Folio..? I'm going back to Italy!! :tongue Ok really now ditch the idea because without these books whatever you do will be incoplete at best. If you insist though try binding Canoloths and Gulthirs from MM 3 and 4. Also see If you can get Awaken Undead from spell compedium. The Canoloth's summonig ability that brings about a Mezzoloth is an Extraordinary special attack and the Gulthir has a mini swallow hole ability that also dominates the recipient. Simple skeletons and zombies are too mainstream unless you can make enough to give them the mob template from DMG 2.
Bloated goat prince of Undeath, master of vampires and lord of specters, Orcus, grant me your crushing might and the deadly power of your skull- headed wand! (figured what I play, yet?)