Arcane Sight vs. Mirror Image?

[ksbsnowowl]

BBEG wizard has cast Mirror Image.  Good wizard casts Arcane Sight.  What does the Good Wizard see?  Can he tell which image is the real caster?

[Garryl]

Arcane Sight probably won't be too useful. Both the mirror images (as spell effects) and the image caster (as the spell's subject) should be radiating the aura of the same mirror image spell. The standard action to concentrate should rule out any images (since they can't actually cast spells), but by that point it's not too useful.

Edit: Note that if the Mirror Image's caster has any other spell effects or magic items active that weren't also cast on the images, those should an obvious indicator.

[ksbsnowowl]

Okay, so BBEG wizard has cast spells in the following order:
Mage Armor
See Invisibility
Haste
Mirror Image

The Arcane Sight user will notice magical auras from all the images and the caster, but will notice that the caster, and not the images, also has three other spell auras on him, correct?

What if the BBEG had first cast Mirror Image, and then Haste?  The haste aura would still only radiate from the caster, correct?

[Garryl]

Correct, although the caster could have also targeted some of the images with Haste in the second example (or, to be tricky, even have targeted some of the images but not himself, although it's a bit of a corner case where that would actually be relevant).

[phaedrusxy]

Correct, although the caster could have also targeted some of the images with Haste in the second example (or, to be tricky, even have targeted some of the images but not himself, although it's a bit of a corner case where that would actually be relevant).

The images aren't valid targets, though.

[Kethrian]

Just cast Magic Missile and have each missile target a different "mage".  You'll wipe out the images very quickly, reducing that defense to nothing, due to its ablative nature.

[ksbsnowowl]

Just cast Magic Missile and have each missile target a different "mage".  You'll wipe out the images very quickly, reducing that defense to nothing, due to its ablative nature.

Indeed, one of my players did this last night, after they were getting fed up with always missing due to the mirror images.  But the party beguiler (the one with arcane sight) doesn't get magic missile, and the Wizard wasn't present on scene (it was a large, two-story, open-air building. Lots of bad guys.) until a few rounds later.

[darqueseid]

wouldn't the images also radiate the magic auras that are on the caster?  Mirror image states that the figments created are indistinguishable targets.  To me that means the figments are also mimicing your auras.  The fact that the auras arent visible to normal sight doesn't change the fact that the spell will mimic them.  Indeed arcane sight specifically states that you SEE the magic auras and mirror image specifically states vision is one of the the things you can't use to distinguish the difference. 

Additionally if you cast new buffs on yourself the images appear to cast these buffs, and the auras update immediately as you cast them without the caster needing to target them(I think they are valid targets, but its not necessary).  Again, because the figments are continually mimicing anything you put off that a person can see(IE magic auras).

As far as defeating the BBEG goes, you also could have summoned something with lots of weak attacks on him too, or targeted dispel the MI, maybe... 

[nijineko]

i agree that the mirror image would mimic anything current, and would update to include any later castings, until the duration of mirror image expired. one aoe would nix all the images, belike.

[Kremti]

i agree that the mirror image would mimic anything current, and would update to include any later castings, until the duration of mirror image expired. one aoe would nix all the images, belike.

AoE (spells) don't actually destroy the images:

Figments seem to react normally to area spells (such as looking like they’re burned or dead after being hit by a fireball).

Of course, it *does* hit the real one, so you don't have to deal with miss-chances and what not...but the real one *AND* the figments all appear to just take damage to whoever is looking at them.

-K

[phaedrusxy]

The fact that the auras arent visible to normal sight doesn't change the fact that the spell will mimic them

I think it certainly does. The illusion reproduces the visible image of the target (and maybe sounds, depending on which of the two contradictory sentences in the description that you want to read). It doesn't also reproduce the sonar echo, infrared signature, etc, of the target. Magical auras are not visible. Because there is a spell that makes them visible for the specific person using it doesn't change the basic nature of what is defined as visible or not visible in general.

If I researched a spell that let me see infrared signatures, would Mirror Image all of a sudden start mimicking those also? What if I researched a spell that let me see smells? Would it then start reproducing the target's scent?

[ksbsnowowl]

i agree that the mirror image would mimic anything current, and would update to include any later castings, until the duration of mirror image expired. one aoe would nix all the images, belike.

AoE (spells) don't actually destroy the images:

Figments seem to react normally to area spells (such as looking like they’re burned or dead after being hit by a fireball).

Of course, it *does* hit the real one, so you don't have to deal with miss-chances and what not...but the real one *AND* the figments all appear to just take damage to whoever is looking at them.

Right, what I'm getting from the spell is two seemingly contradictory statements:
"Any successful attack against an image destroys it."
"Figments seem to react normally to area spells (such as looking like they’re burned or dead after being hit by a fireball)."

Now, what I decipher from those two statements is that an attack with an attack roll destroys a mirror image, reducing the number of images present.  An area of effect spell, however, doesn't destroy an image, at least in the sense that it goes "pop," but will "destroy" it in the sense that such an image stops functioning, and lays there looking dead (assuming the AoE dealt damage), even if you are still standing (though this part could be debatable). 

The advantage of that last part, is that if a fireball brings you to -1 hp, now you and all your images are laying there looking burned and unconscious.  Your foes still have to pick randomly.

[Kremti]

The advantage of that last part, is that if a fireball brings you to -1 hp, now you and all your images are laying there looking burned and unconscious.  Your foes still have to pick randomly.

Your friends, also have to randomly pick which image they have to apply the Blessed Bandage on to stable you tooooooo? X-D

The spell does specify "Ememy" but a DM might choose be evil...

-K

[darqueseid]

The fact that the auras arent visible to normal sight doesn't change the fact that the spell will mimic them

I think it certainly does. The illusion reproduces the visible image of the target (and maybe sounds, depending on which of the two contradictory sentences in the description that you want to read). It doesn't also reproduce the sonar echo, infrared signature, etc, of the target. Magical auras are not visible. Because there is a spell that makes them visible for the specific person using it doesn't change the basic nature of what is defined as visible or not visible in general.

If I researched a spell that let me see infrared signatures, would Mirror Image all of a sudden start mimicking those also? What if I researched a spell that let me see smells? Would it then start reproducing the target's scent?

Well, magical auras ARE visible, they just aren't visible to those who haven't cast detect magic.   Its not as if the magic auras suddenly spring into existence the moment somone casts arcane sight, they are always there, you've just boosted your vision to be able to see them. 

I think the point your missing here is that Mirror images are INDIStinguishable from you by vision or hearing.  That means that mirror images copy anything that you put out that would be visible.  To me that means that even if your vision is better than normal, your vision still can't be used to tell them apart. 

So yes, if you were able to see smells, you still wouldn't be able to use that vision to distinguish the figments from the person. 

The only exception I know of is true seeing, which specifically sees through Mirror Image because its an illusion. 

[nijineko]

i agree that the mirror image would mimic anything current, and would update to include any later castings, until the duration of mirror image expired. one aoe would nix all the images, belike.

AoE (spells) don't actually destroy the images:

Figments seem to react normally to area spells (such as looking like they’re burned or dead after being hit by a fireball).

Of course, it *does* hit the real one, so you don't have to deal with miss-chances and what not...but the real one *AND* the figments all appear to just take damage to whoever is looking at them.

Right, what I'm getting from the spell is two seemingly contradictory statements:
"Any successful attack against an image destroys it."
"Figments seem to react normally to area spells (such as looking like they’re burned or dead after being hit by a fireball)."

Now, what I decipher from those two statements is that an attack with an attack roll destroys a mirror image, reducing the number of images present.  An area of effect spell, however, doesn't destroy an image, at least in the sense that it goes "pop," but will "destroy" it in the sense that such an image stops functioning, and lays there looking dead (assuming the AoE dealt damage), even if you are still standing (though this part could be debatable). 

The advantage of that last part, is that if a fireball brings you to -1 hp, now you and all your images are laying there looking burned and unconscious.  Your foes still have to pick randomly.

thank you for corrections and clarifications. =D

[ksbsnowowl]

The advantage of that last part, is that if a fireball brings you to -1 hp, now you and all your images are laying there looking burned and unconscious.  Your foes still have to pick randomly.

Your friends, also have to randomly pick which image they have to apply the Blessed Bandage on to stable you tooooooo? X-D

The spell does specify "Ememy" but a DM might choose be evil...

Hmmm.... Hadn't thought about that...  That could be deadly...