Author Topic: A Thread With A Laundry List of Pathfinder's Problems?  (Read 2431 times)

Offline Nachofan99

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A Thread With A Laundry List of Pathfinder's Problems?
« on: August 19, 2012, 05:03:02 PM »
I was wondering if there was any kind of thread that had broken down or listed some of the fundamental flaws with Pathfinder as a self-contained game system (meaning no other 3.X sources in use, or as few as absolutely necessary)?

It was my original understanding upon reviewing some of the original Pathfinder source books that they applied some bandaids to things that needed full reconstructive surgery and called it a "fix".  Is that still true?

Oh, in before "use search".  >9000 threads come up for "pathfinder" + another search term and none of them are what I want.

Thanks!

Offline EjoThims

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Re: A Thread With A Laundry List of Pathfinder's Problems?
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2012, 05:58:25 PM »
Oh wow... This has been done to death.

Without taking the time to go into details (because I really don't care to atm), the big issues can be summed up in three major points.

1) Band-aids - you already mentioned this one

2) Buffing/debuffing the wrong items - casters got more nice things while fighters have to spend more for the view nice things they already have

3) Being douchebags -  in prelims, reviews, and play-testing they shit all over anyone who had any legitimate criticism or suggestions that didn't coincide with their preset ideals



So they not only didn't actually fix a lot of problems, they made some issues worse, and they treated anyone who pointed it out like absolute garbage.

Offline StreamOfTheSky

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Re: A Thread With A Laundry List of Pathfinder's Problems?
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2012, 06:14:25 PM »
PF resources from this site:

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4074.0 Problems people have w/ PF (rants galore)

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6300.0 Little changes from 3E to PF people have been surprised to learn

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=3498.0 PF Q&A with a fair bit of ranting

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2342.0 Interesting stuff in PF

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1389.0 PF Tier list

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=6393.0 The worst shit PF has to offer

Of course, there's also the PF optimization handbooks and the thread containing links to them all in the handbooks forum.

Offline StreamOfTheSky

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Re: A Thread With A Laundry List of Pathfinder's Problems?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2012, 06:26:32 PM »
Ejo Thomas summarized it well, though.  Basically, they slightly buffed casters thanks to every single race getting a mental +2 (aside from humans and half-elves, there are a grand total of THREE races in all of paizo's books up to now that boost strength, just to compare, and one of them is orc, which gets a net -2 when most races have a net +2 to stats...), gobs of new powerful class features, new powerful feats(Dazing Spell, Spell Perfection, Bouncing Spell, Selective Spell, Divine Interference, to name a few of them), and even new broken items (there's a ring in the just came out Ultimate Equipment book that's basically free 3E Persistent Spell on any one spell w/ less limits than the 3E feat had).

At the same time, they beat the ever loving shit out of anything good noncasters had, practically.  Tumble DCs are impossible (but there's spells to move w/o provoking); pounce is now a ~level 10+ benefit for martials (but a caster class can get it at 1); combat maneuvers were across the board nerfed to shit, some especially hard (grapple is now a standard, not an attack replacer, is MUCH less penalizing than it used to be, and you have to roll to maintain it each round just to avoid letting go, aside from the foe's attempts to get out, for example), and the Improved feats were split up so they now cost more feats and take longer to obtain; flasks and any other odd items like that can no longer be quickdrawn, only weapons (splash weapons apparently are not weapons) and you cannot sneak attack with splash weapons...paizo had a massive hate-on for flask rogues and ranged rogues in general...actually, rogues in general; spiked chain was nerfed so hard that it's possibly inferior to the freaking longspear now!
They even nerfed STAND STILL!  It's completely worthless now.  The equivalent effect of 3E stand still was eventually ported over...as a level 11 Fighter-only feat.   :twitch

I...don't feel like listing more.  Again, PF made casters stronger and non-casters weaker.  Anyone saying "it's about the same" or "it fixed a little but not nearly enough" is at best telling a half-truth, but in many cases, is lying through their teeth.